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Question: Is Abortion immoral (early term specifically)
Yes, Immoral - 8 (25.8%)
No, not Immoral - 23 (74.2%)
Total Voters: 31

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Matthew N. Wright
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January 27, 2013, 12:39:50 PM
 #21

Is suicide still a crime in the US?

Yep. I wonder what the sentence is for successfully committing suicide.

I think capital punishment would be suitable for a sucessful suicide.

Actually, you might be on to something. They could make your corpse property of the state, using it for science or however they please as a deterrent to those who have a sense of "honor" in their stinking corpses. (Personally I think the idea of leaving a dead body is insane and will make sure I am cremated)

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January 27, 2013, 12:46:15 PM
 #22

Is suicide still a crime in the US?

Yep. I wonder what the sentence is for successfully committing suicide.

The reason I'm asking about it an abortion thread, is that as an European, the notion of bodily property rights is quite strong, and the is never any debate about abortion here, ofcause Italy is different.

There was a strange case in Germany 10 years ago, where a guy advertised himself as a cannibal seeking someone who wanted to be eaten by him.

A 30 years old single engineer replied and they ate his genitals at their first diner date. Afterwards he hit him in the head with the frying pan and carved him up and put him in the freezer.

the guy was aquitted as it was a case of concending assisted suicide, which is legal in Germany. However they confiscated the meat left in the freezer as disrespectfull handling of bodyparts is a crime still.

How would that have gone down in an American court?



 
 
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January 27, 2013, 12:55:10 PM
 #23

Is suicide still a crime in the US?

Yep. I wonder what the sentence is for successfully committing suicide.

I think capital punishment would be suitable for a sucessful suicide.

Actually, you might be on to something. They could make your corpse property of the state, using it for science or however they please as a deterrent to those who have a sense of "honor" in their stinking corpses. (Personally I think the idea of leaving a dead body is insane and will make sure I am cremated)

I think that's a waste. You have so many body parts that would make so many people happy, and not in a cannibalistic way either. Maybe just cremate the bits no one wants.

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January 27, 2013, 01:52:05 PM
 #24

I believe forcing your own morals on someone when it is their choice what to do with their body is immoral if we can even decently define 'morality' which I believe we can't, I'll give my opinion, but in the end as with anything it's up to the people involved to decide for themselves and they can't be forced, I do think abortion on an early basis at least is okay but again, it's up to the mother and this is all extremely personal. Not only that, it's women who are having the baby, so they're the ones who are going to have to go through the trauma of the birth why the hell should a board room of men ( *cough* American catholics *cough ) have any right to decide for women without even properly knowing the situation or even acknowledging the amount of emotional stress they be under? It's reminds me a bit of seeing silly comments by women as well thinking that men can't be raped by a woman while having absolutely no idea what having a penis is like.

Forcing someone is wrong thats true... Expressing an opinion is ok to but:

How could you force that decision onto a father? Whats his share in the decision? Why does the women decide that?

What is this BS about "a room of men deciding over the poor women's womb"?   

It must be a real trauma to go thru birth seeing 7 billion people on earth surface....:/


I'm sure there will be people who will argue with me about this and I know not all religious people will be like what I describe but honestly, these people who tell us that abortion is 'immoral' are the same people who molest/rape children ( or cover it up ) and think beating them to 'discipline' them is okay so they can go fuck themselves, that goes for all conspiracies that seek to enforce their vision of morality on anyone.

Yes I'm going to try to argue with this:

So what you intend to say is that if people personally don't like abortion or are against it are automatically molesters or rapists that only want to cover up their "sins" by conspiracy?

So I'm that because i have an opinion (or a penis)?

And you think that children (or people) just don't need any form of discipline at all? Just let them do everything they want without telling them about cause and effect? So fucking around with not remorse is ok?

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January 27, 2013, 02:47:44 PM
 #25

Everyone kills everyday just to survive.  Bacteria, insects, plants, cows/pigs/chickens, etc.  The only difference between those creatures and humans is our chemical bond (aka love) between the mother and her offspring.  However those chemicals are not produced until near the end of the pregnancy.  To me there is no difference between killing a fertilized human egg and killing a fertilized chicken egg.  I do feel differently the closer a baby gets to full term however - a fully developed baby is inside the womb should be no different than one outside the womb.

It's the woman's body, so it's her choice.  Anyone who disagrees should be forced to carry an invasive and uncomfortable device on their body against their will for nine months, then be subjective to some torture and mutilation at the end.

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January 27, 2013, 02:50:59 PM
 #26


.....  i have an opinion (or a penis)?


In my household, my experience is that you only get to have one of them

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January 27, 2013, 03:01:25 PM
 #27

What I'm saying BR0KK is that the people who are against abortion are often both deeply religious and catholic and the fact is for the catholic church at least it does seem to be comprised of an alarming number of child molesters/rapists so I honestly don't really care if I offend people by saying I think they should stay the fuck away from thinking they can tell people what is the morally 'correct' thing to do with children. It's a deeply personal thing and no state, ideology or bullshit sense of righteousness is going to be the answer for every human being out there and people should respect that.

Believe it or not I'm actually being fairly diplomatic here, but if we spin the situation around and put it on a situation where we're on the receiving end, if there was a small mob of women going around tell you you have to go and get a vasectomy and they were lobbying the government to introduce it into law you'd be pretty pissed everyone was telling you what to do with your body wouldn't you? Granted, me personally? If I could get a completely reversible chemical based option I'd probably have it done until I was 40 just so I could have sex with a woman without any consequences lol but that's just me.

I just think it's bullshit to have the discussion at all really on a political level, it's the typical warning from past people beyond the grave where if you get religion involved too much with the state everything goes mental.
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January 27, 2013, 03:47:39 PM
 #28

Quick aside, yet on-topic: Today, I'm a great-uncle--again! A baby shower was planned for today, but canceled due to the pending ice storm heading our way from KC, couple with my niece delivering the 0.39285714 stone, 1.813 megalithic yard, baby boy early this morning.

At no time during the pregnancy was there an iota of talk of her aborting, always wishing her a healthy baby (which he is) and hopefully she's able to go full term (+2 weeks early), for she miscarried two prior. The father is a cool dude, smokes a little dank (niece doesn't partake), but has held the same job for over eight years.

Before anybody ask, no, I'm not planning on taking him bowling once his weight increases threefold.  Roll Eyes
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January 27, 2013, 05:29:55 PM
 #29

Everyone kills everyday just to survive.  Bacteria, insects, plants, cows/pigs/chickens, etc.  The only difference between those creatures and humans is our chemical bond (aka love) between the mother and her offspring.  However those chemicals are not produced until near the end of the pregnancy.  To me there is no difference between killing a fertilized human egg and killing a fertilized chicken egg.  I do feel differently the closer a baby gets to full term however - a fully developed baby is inside the womb should be no different than one outside the womb.

It's the woman's body, so it's her choice.  Anyone who disagrees should be forced to carry an invasive and uncomfortable device on their body against their will for nine months, then be subjective to some torture and mutilation at the end.

In case you have forgotten in takes TWO people to make a human baby meaning that that baby is not only hers but also her partners. And it takes less than a full term for the baby to develop to an extent where it may be considered as ''human''. The heart starts beating regularly after 6 weeks of gestation.
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January 27, 2013, 07:05:34 PM
 #30

Humans treat the first few years of human life as all important and place little or no value on the elderly. There is minimal material investment in children but up to a century of investment in the elderly. Either every life is sacred or none of them are. Governments are in error with nearly every ruling because broad investigations of concept are forgone to satisfy the momentary demand of the populace. Some governmental ruling must be reached immediately to placate the people. A government will rule it illegal to kill a fetus while concurrently murdering thousands of fully educated materially invested adults in unjust military actions to satisfy a government goal. This hypocrisy is created by a system attempting to legislate beyond its ability. Certain topics, abortion being one, should always be left to the individual.

Is abortion then immoral or not immoral? There is no answer to this question because morality is subjective.

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January 27, 2013, 07:13:04 PM
 #31

I was in a store immediately after the Sandy Hook massacre.  There was a woman in there talking on a cell phone.  She was being a little loud, and while I wasn't intentionally trying to snoop on her conversation, I couldn't help but hear what she was saying. 

"It is hard to get upset about 20 kids getting killed, when 1,000 babies are killed every day in this country because of abortion."

(I don't remember the exact number she said.)

I normally have a pretty relaxed personality, but it really took everything I had from asking that woman if she knew how mentally disturbed she was. 

Of course I knew the answer already, she has no idea how screwed in the brain she is. 


Charlie Kelly: I'm pleading the 5th.  The Attorney: I would advise you do that.  Charlie Kelly: I'll take that advice under cooperation, alright? Now, let's say you and I go toe-to-toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor?  The Attorney: You know, I don't think I'm going to do anything close to that and I can clearly see you know nothing about the law.
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January 27, 2013, 07:26:42 PM
 #32

Part of that problem Nolo is that western propaganda in particular has successfully hardwired a lot of people from birth to care more about some human beings than others, the woman was a bitch, but there are millions of people who die around us on this planet every day and there's nothing we can do about it, it's just something that has to be accepted, it should be fought at every opportunity of course, but accepted.
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January 27, 2013, 08:33:53 PM
 #33

What I'm saying BR0KK is that the people who are against abortion are often both deeply religious and catholic and the fact is for the catholic church at least it does seem to be comprised of an alarming number of child molesters/rapists so I honestly don't really care if I offend people by saying I think they should stay the fuck away from thinking they can tell people what is the morally 'correct' thing to do with children. It's a deeply personal thing and no state, ideology or bullshit sense of righteousness is going to be the answer for every human being out there and people should respect that.

That's still implying that there is a trend in these fucktard's molesting and raping..... Thats simply not true:)

Believe it or not I'm actually being fairly diplomatic here, but if we spin the situation around and put it on a situation where we're on the receiving end, if there was a small mob of women going around tell you you have to go and get a vasectomy and they were lobbying the government to introduce it into law you'd be pretty pissed everyone was telling you what to do with your body wouldn't you? Granted, me personally?
Not exactly the same situation here. Cutting my tubes (I'm confident to do that when 40) is not like aborting a fetus. If there were a "mob of protesting woman" i would just outright ignore them (they can go fuck themselves, like these religios braindead people).

Did you read what if written?
Where is the father in this situation? Doesn't he count a bit?

And again..... Life comes with responsibility!


If I could get a completely reversible chemical based option I'd probably have it done until I was 40 just so I could have sex with a woman without any consequences lol but that's just me.

Thats exactly what woman have now.... and they even don't have to pay for it :/ Its just a pill to take whats the difficulty for the majority of women?
Men only have the Condom, the option not to have sex or get there tubes cut (not for free like the other part of the human species)....

I would definitely be among the first to take those pills if they were existent (but sad as it is, they never will!).
 
I just think it's bullshit to have the discussion at all really on a political level, it's the typical warning from past people beyond the grave where if you get religion involved too much with the state everything goes mental.
I'm not implying religion here..... morals are NOT in any case religious :/ It sounds like they have a copyright on that?

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January 27, 2013, 08:35:28 PM
 #34


.....  i have an opinion (or a penis)?


In my household, my experience is that you only get to have one of them

I took the red pill a month ago .... Your time to decide now brother Smiley

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January 27, 2013, 08:35:59 PM
 #35

Quick aside, yet on-topic: Today, I'm a great-uncle--again! A baby shower was planned for today, but canceled due to the pending ice storm heading our way from KC, couple with my niece delivering the 0.39285714 stone, 1.813 megalithic yard, baby boy early this morning.

At no time during the pregnancy was there an iota of talk of her aborting, always wishing her a healthy baby (which he is) and hopefully she's able to go full term (+2 weeks early), for she miscarried two prior. The father is a cool dude, smokes a little dank (niece doesn't partake), but has held the same job for over eight years.

Before anybody ask, no, I'm not planning on taking him bowling once his weight increases threefold.  Roll Eyes

Congratz Smiley

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January 27, 2013, 08:45:30 PM
 #36

Quick aside, yet on-topic: Today, I'm a great-uncle--again! A baby shower was planned for today, but canceled due to the pending ice storm heading our way from KC, couple with my niece delivering the 0.39285714 stone, 1.813 megalithic yard, baby boy early this morning.

At no time during the pregnancy was there an iota of talk of her aborting, always wishing her a healthy baby (which he is) and hopefully she's able to go full term (+2 weeks early), for she miscarried two prior. The father is a cool dude, smokes a little dank (niece doesn't partake), but has held the same job for over eight years.

Before anybody ask, no, I'm not planning on taking him bowling once his weight increases threefold.  Roll Eyes

Congratz Smiley

Thanks, bud. I think I saw another gray hair in my beard.

If it happened today, is an abortion justified?: http://fubini.swarthmore.edu/~WS30/WS30F1998/nrosado3.html

Quote
She was a Quaker. The wife of a merchant. The infertility patient of Dr. William Pancoast. She was a woman whose name was never recorded.

Dr. Pancoast, a professor at Jefferson Medical College in Philadelphia, had already examined and tested her numerous times. Finally, he discovered that she was fertile and that the problem was her husband¹s;; There were no sperm. Pancoast (or maybe it was one of his students) had an idea. He called her in. He just wanted to examine her once more, he told her.

The woman lay on the table as she had been told to do. Pancoast¹s six medical students-all young men- stood around her body. Pancoast anesthetized the woman with chloroform. He took the receptacle into which one of his students had masturbated. With a hard rubber syringe, he inserted the student¹s semen into her uterus. He then plugged her cervix with gauze.

When she awoke, he did not tell her what he had done. He never told her. Nine months later, she bore a son. It was 1884. This was the first reported human artificial insemination with donor semen. It was a rape.
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January 27, 2013, 08:49:04 PM
 #37

Everyone kills everyday just to survive.  Bacteria, insects, plants, cows/pigs/chickens, etc.  The only difference between those creatures and humans is our chemical bond (aka love) between the mother and her offspring.  However those chemicals are not produced until near the end of the pregnancy.  To me there is no difference between killing a fertilized human egg and killing a fertilized chicken egg.  I do feel differently the closer a baby gets to full term however - a fully developed baby is inside the womb should be no different than one outside the womb.

It's the woman's body, so it's her choice.  Anyone who disagrees should be forced to carry an invasive and uncomfortable device on their body against their will for nine months, then be subjective to some torture and mutilation at the end.

In case you have forgotten in takes TWO people to make a human baby meaning that that baby is not only hers but also her partners. And it takes less than a full term for the baby to develop to an extent where it may be considered as ''human''. The heart starts beating regularly after 6 weeks of gestation.

Right to malevolent Smiley


@mlawrence

Her body, her choice = you briefcase! Smiley

I'm not a woman but i can not under any circumstances believe that getting pregnant and giving birth is such an "invasive and uncomfortable" act and "torture and mutilation" at the end ....Naturally these poor oppressed woman get pregnated by force of a big opressing patriarch...:/  

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January 27, 2013, 08:54:19 PM
 #38

Holy shit!: http://media.gunaxin.com/top-ten-celebs-who-had-abortions/16941
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January 27, 2013, 09:00:10 PM
 #39

Quick aside, yet on-topic: Today, I'm a great-uncle--again! A baby shower was planned for today, but canceled due to the pending ice storm heading our way from KC, couple with my niece delivering the 0.39285714 stone, 1.813 megalithic yard, baby boy early this morning.

At no time during the pregnancy was there an iota of talk of her aborting, always wishing her a healthy baby (which he is) and hopefully she's able to go full term (+2 weeks early), for she miscarried two prior. The father is a cool dude, smokes a little dank (niece doesn't partake), but has held the same job for over eight years.

Before anybody ask, no, I'm not planning on taking him bowling once his weight increases threefold.  Roll Eyes

Congratz Smiley

Thanks, bud. I think I saw another gray hair in my beard.

If it happened today, is an abortion justified?: http://fubini.swarthmore.edu/~WS30/WS30F1998/nrosado3.html

Quote
She was a Quaker. The wife of a merchant. The infertility patient of Dr. William Pancoast. She was a woman whose name was never recorded.

Dr. Pancoast, a professor at Jefferson Medical College in Philadelphia, had already examined and tested her numerous times. Finally, he discovered that she was fertile and that the problem was her husband¹s;; There were no sperm. Pancoast (or maybe it was one of his students) had an idea. He called her in. He just wanted to examine her once more, he told her.

The woman lay on the table as she had been told to do. Pancoast¹s six medical students-all young men- stood around her body. Pancoast anesthetized the woman with chloroform. He took the receptacle into which one of his students had masturbated. With a hard rubber syringe, he inserted the student¹s semen into her uterus. He then plugged her cervix with gauze.

When she awoke, he did not tell her what he had done. He never told her. Nine months later, she bore a son. It was 1884. This was the first reported human artificial insemination with donor semen. It was a rape.

Forcing someone to to such a thing is immoral and a crime. As i said if there is a case (proven) then i don't see a problem with abortion. If in any case there isn't, then its for personal "feelings" (not the right word.... its just like a plastic surgery. Not for health just to feel god)


@All
again i'm not a woman.... i cant even consider how it would be to get an abortion (or lose a child out of other reasons). I just can't belive that this is an easy decison to make and live with....

and I'm not in any case saying that rape or molesting is not a crime or scaling it down. All i imply is that there is NOT a elfin rape culture out there!

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January 27, 2013, 09:08:33 PM
 #40


Thats what i'm telling .... they are getting abortions because they were let me quote:

Quote
So Marcia Brady was considered hot and was the dream of every teenage boy who watched the Brady Bunch, but she turned out to be a drug and sex addict. All of those guys who wanted to nail her only really needed an eight ball and restroom stall.


Quote
Shepherd, a co-host on The View, said before she converted to Christianity, “I was sleeping with a lot of guys and had more abortions than I would like to count.”

Quote
As a teenager, Whoopi abused drugs and engaged in promiscuous activities, getting pregnant and having a self-inflicted coat hanger abortion. Four more abortions ensued.

Quote
Abortion is to Steinem like sex is to a porn star. She pretty much had to have one just to keep her street cred.

Out of what reason ...:/

Not sure if that if is accurate but if only a little then this is so harmful for society. We are basically telling our kids that fooling around comes with no consequences after all!

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