Am I crazy or is running a shit load of classic nodes on amazanaws.com dumb

[BTCLovesU]

Doesn't this kind of defeat the purpose of running a node?  I could see 50 or so, and the cloud would be great for high availability.  Check out bitnodes.21.co.  I tried to figure things out on reddit with no success.
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/49orvl/the_number_of_classic_012_nodes_are_skyrocketing/

Something is wrong, I call foul

[LiquidGamerX]

I kind of find it odd no one here is the least bit curious as to why bitcoin classic would artificially boost node numbers...  Is anyone out there?  If people can be deceived this looks like a pretty good way.

[7788bitcoin]

It is good to have more classic nodes, but the most important thing is miners to mine the blocks. Hope this will happen soon.

[Jet Cash]

I think it's crazy to run one classic node, let alone loads.

[NorrisK]

Artificially trying to increase the node count by running multiple ones on a cloud service is not the best way to try and promote or boost a classic stance imo. It is quite easy to see through for almost everybody and that kindof defeats the purpose of running the nodes to try and convince people that many people want said solution.

Could also be something like a crowdfunded bitcoin classic campaign, where several people chipped in to get some nodes running, but the thing is, those 50 or so does not represent 50 or so individuals with individual votes, nor are they from the most important people in the network at the moment (miners).

I wouldn't think too much of it, they will probably shut down after a few months when the expenses become to big.

[ATguy]

Something is wrong, I call foul

While higher number of Classic nodes compared to Core nodes are on amazon cloud, the reason is the DDoS attacks where only Classic nodes are targetted which amazon cloud has good protection for. Try run Classic node home and the chances are you wont be able to use internet when you need it the most because of DDoS - so your forced to set up node on cloud hosting with good DDoS protection if you want keep the Bitcoin network healthy.

I call DDoS crimminal, not just foul.

I kind of find it odd no one here is the least bit curious as to why bitcoin classic would artificially boost node numbers...  Is anyone out there?  If people can be deceived this looks like a pretty good way.

No one is deceiving, check unique IP node statistic, fair representative of real number of unique nodes.

[shorena]

Something is wrong, I call foul

While higher number of Classic nodes compared to Core nodes are on amazon cloud, the reason is the DDoS attacks where only Classic nodes are targetted which amazon cloud has good protection for.

I doubt that, the DDoS can easily be defended with fail2ban[1]. It would be easier to install a very common admin and protection tool you should have anyway (even if you just use it to defend against SSH brute force attacks) than to move the entire server.

Try run Classic node home and the chances are you wont be able to use internet when you need it the most because of DDoS - so your forced to set up node on cloud hosting with good DDoS protection if you want keep the Bitcoin network healthy.

I call DDoS crimminal, not just foul.

A actually distributed DoS (as in ran by multiple people and not a bought bot net) is seen as a form of political protest by some. I do agree however that hiring a bot net to attack classic is a stupid idea, whoever is behind it.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1380642.msg14103169#msg14103169

[sgbett]

Something is wrong, I call foul

While higher number of Classic nodes compared to Core nodes are on amazon cloud, the reason is the DDoS attacks where only Classic nodes are targetted which amazon cloud has good protection for.

I doubt that, the DDoS can easily be defended with fail2ban[1]. It would be easier to install a very common admin and protection tool you should have anyway (even if you just use it to defend against SSH brute force attacks) than to move the entire server.

Try run Classic node home and the chances are you wont be able to use internet when you need it the most because of DDoS - so your forced to set up node on cloud hosting with good DDoS protection if you want keep the Bitcoin network healthy.

I call DDoS crimminal, not just foul.

A actually distributed DoS (as in ran by multiple people and not a bought bot net) is seen as a form of political protest by some. I do agree however that hiring a bot net to attack classic is a stupid idea, whoever is behind it.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1380642.msg14103169#msg14103169

A DDoS that takes down routers at the ISP cannot be mitigated at the local server level.

[shorena]

Something is wrong, I call foul

While higher number of Classic nodes compared to Core nodes are on amazon cloud, the reason is the DDoS attacks where only Classic nodes are targetted which amazon cloud has good protection for.

I doubt that, the DDoS can easily be defended with fail2ban[1]. It would be easier to install a very common admin and protection tool you should have anyway (even if you just use it to defend against SSH brute force attacks) than to move the entire server.

Try run Classic node home and the chances are you wont be able to use internet when you need it the most because of DDoS - so your forced to set up node on cloud hosting with good DDoS protection if you want keep the Bitcoin network healthy.

I call DDoS crimminal, not just foul.

A actually distributed DoS (as in ran by multiple people and not a bought bot net) is seen as a form of political protest by some. I do agree however that hiring a bot net to attack classic is a stupid idea, whoever is behind it.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1380642.msg14103169#msg14103169

A DDoS that takes down routers at the ISP cannot be mitigated at the local server level.

When/where did that happen?

[pedrog]

It's hard to run Classic nodes when the're being DDoSed all the time.

There aren't that many affordable options when this happens, and running at home may be too risky.

[Lauda]

Welcome to the Sybil-attack. Over 50% of the Classic nodes are at 1 location and that is Amazon. This is pretty useless if you consider decentralization to be important. Additionally you could run 5000 nodes for only $50k monthly (IIRC the price is 10$ for a node) using their service. It does seem nice, doesn't it?

[mexxer-2]

Additionally you could run 5000 nodes for only $50k monthly (IIRC the price is 10$ for a node) using their service. It does seem nice, doesn't it?

Well, one could do it for a cheaper rate if one abuses the "free" trial, amazon gives

[ATguy]

A DDoS that takes down routers at the ISP cannot be mitigated at the local server level.

When/where did that happen?

You cant just ban offensive IPs, they overflow traffic with UDP packets and similar, thus unless your connection can handle more traffic than they send at you there is no defence for home user.

[franky1]

https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=OVH%20SAS - bitcoin core using online services
https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=Hetzner%20Online%20GmbH - bitcoin core using online services
https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=Hetzner%20Online%20AG%20RZ - bitcoin core using online services

i dont believe sybil attacks are good for either side.  but lets not get deluded and pretend its only one side doing it.
the only difference with the blockstream fanboys is that they are using lesser known services

[Zitdadast]

Something is wrong, I call foul

While higher number of Classic nodes compared to Core nodes are on amazon cloud, the reason is the DDoS attacks where only Classic nodes are targetted which amazon cloud has good protection for. Try run Classic node home and the chances are you wont be able to use internet when you need it the most because of DDoS - so your forced to set up node on cloud hosting with good DDoS protection if you want keep the Bitcoin network healthy.

I call DDoS crimminal, not just foul.

I kind of find it odd no one here is the least bit curious as to why bitcoin classic would artificially boost node numbers...  Is anyone out there?  If people can be deceived this looks like a pretty good way.

No one is deceiving, check unique IP node statistic, fair representative of real number of unique nodes.

That is the reason I do not run the Classic node in my home computer. I think DDoS should be punished by justice.

[randy8777]

well, btcchina has hosted 100 (maybe even more) core nodes on the amazon platform. their plan was to make sure the network keeps staying "decentralized" with their nodes. it justs shows that all sides are using a certain platform to host plenty of nodes.

[shorena]

@mexxer-2

Additionally you could run 5000 nodes for only $50k monthly (IIRC the price is 10$ for a node) using their service. It does seem nice, doesn't it?

Well, one could do it for a cheaper rate if one abuses the "free" trial, amazon gives

AFAIK you cant even sync properly on their free nodes before you run out of your monthly CPU quota.


@ATguy

A DDoS that takes down routers at the ISP cannot be mitigated at the local server level.

When/where did that happen?

You cant just ban offensive IPs, they overflow traffic with UDP packets and similar, thus unless your connection can handle more traffic than they send at you there is no defence for home user.

That does not answer my question and Im not entirely sure an UDP flood attack against the large number of classic nodes is possible. Im pretty sure the attacker would need more bandwidth to exhaust the nodes. I also have seen not a single report on this, same as "ISPs get attacked" claim. I do however have seen several people defend against attacks by simple blocking the attackers (>400) IP addresses on their firewall in an automated fashion. I have linked it upthread. I dont care about could be, I want to know whats actually happening.


@franky

https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=OVH%20SAS - bitcoin core using online services
https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=Hetzner%20Online%20GmbH - bitcoin core using online services
https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=Hetzner%20Online%20AG%20RZ - bitcoin core using online services

i dont believe sybil attacks are good for either side.  but lets not get deluded and pretend its only one side doing it.
the only difference with the blockstream fanboys is that they are using lesser known services

Id say Hetzner is pretty well know. I also agree that the "sybill attack cries" are not called for.


@Zitdadast

-snip-
That is the reason I do not run the Classic node in my home computer. I think DDoS should be punished by justice.

AFAIK its against the law in most countries. There is however little you can do about it as these attacks typically are done with bot networks and the origin IP probably has no idea whats going on.

@ETFbitcoin

Lots of number nodes doesn't mean classic has lots of supporters now, there's no point if miners don't use classic and there aren't any real classic supporter.
Also, there's some way to run lots of nodes with low prices. I heard some people run full nodes in $2 VPS

2 USD might be a bit low, but Im also a bit picky what to use. 8 EUR/m is certainly possible.

[soulcity]

I had to move my classic node to a data center because my node I ran at home is constantly getting DDoS'ed.  So now instead of running one node from home, I run two in two different datacenters.  Suck it hackers.


This thread will be lost to the altcoin  section in 3, 2, 1 ....

[LiquidGamerX]

well, btcchina has hosted 100 (maybe even more) core nodes on the amazon platform. their plan was to make sure the network keeps staying "decentralized" with their nodes. it justs shows that all sides are using a certain platform to host plenty of nodes.

Yes, however bitcoin doesn't have over 75% of the nodes running on one service.  I see deception here in the case of bitcoin "classic".  Not only is the name terribly deceptive, now this?  Classic is the most deceptive altcoin out there in my opinion.  It just seems as an excuse for others to say "We moved nodes to amazon because of the DDoS'ing".  All those individual nodes are better off under one domain?  This doesn't make sense.  On top of that you have people calling others "blockstream fanboys".  WTF is that?  wasn't blockstream just a tool to search through the bitcoin blockchain (Not a very good one)?  When did this become some red vs blue campaign?  This crap didn't start till Bitcoin XT, Eth, and now classic.  I don't remember any of the other altcoin team members mocking people using bitcoin qt?  Please, don't take this the wrong way, nodes are great to run on cloud services like amazons, just don't think it's a good idea to have more than half your nodes under one roof per se.

[LiquidGamerX]

No one is deceiving, check unique IP node statistic, fair representative of real number of unique nodes.

I checked the nodes, a different IP doesn't mean different computer.  I can run more than 10 virtual computers on my one computer and have separate IP, and mac addresses,  for all of them.  Look at all those on https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=Amazon.com,%20Inc.

I think it's just gross, and a waste of resources. Running more than 5 nodes on the same domain/network is just pointless.  You are not doing anything but propping up the numbers when doing that.