2MB Pros and Cons

[illyiller]

It's not the idea of 2MB that poeple are obsessed about, it's about cores vision for bitcoin's future. not everyone agrees we should consider the specs of a 60$ raspberry pi when designing the world's financial settlement layer.

So what is your vision? I remember when I got on board in early 2013, there was so much talk of "the unbanked." Have people given up on that? With 0.12 in pruned mode (and with 3g/4g bandwidth limitations in mind), people in Africa could conceivably actually validate their own transactions now (instead of depending on Bitpesa).

A lot of the world has pretty shitty internet. Is bitcoin a global currency? Or coffee money for Starbucks customers in US/Europe?

I believe in the original vision of bitcoin, ie "being your own bank." And I don't think I should have to run an SPV node (which trusts anyone it connects to) in order to do that.

[1715032105]

1715032105

[Richy_T]

Well technically yes, but still no. If the fees drop by half, and the amount of empty block space is 50% then such attacks would be as expensive as they are now. There are just a lot of variables and factors to consider.

Nope. If a 1MB block is 95% full, you just have to pay for 50k of transactions. If that was a 2MB block size limit, you have to pay for 1050k of transactions, 21 times as much.

Artificially restricting resources makes it easier to create attacks.

[Richy_T]

It's not the idea of 2MB that poeple are obsessed about, it's about cores vision for bitcoin's future. not everyone agrees we should consider the specs of a 60$ raspberry pi when designing the world's financial settlement layer.

So what is your vision? I remember when I got on board in early 2013, there was so much talk of "the unbanked." Have people given up on that? With 0.12 in pruned mode (and with 3g/4g bandwidth limitations in mind), people in Africa could conceivably actually validate their own transactions now (instead of depending on Bitpesa).

A lot of the world has pretty shitty internet. Is bitcoin a global currency? Or coffee money for Starbucks customers in US/Europe?

I believe in the original vision of bitcoin, ie "being your own bank." And I don't think I should have to run an SPV node (which trusts anyone it connects to) in order to do that.

You'll have to wait. Adam has been silenced banned.

[illinest]

Maybe cell phones can be adopted as node (just a thought)....

With wallet pruning it can get down to 2gb which makes it possible. As long as it's still possible to sync on 3G or 4G. Not sure it's really possible to run a full-time node that way though, maybe just to run your own wallet. But maybe.

[Richy_T]

Maybe cell phones can be adopted as node (just a thought)....

With wallet pruning it can get down to 2gb which makes it possible. As long as it's still possible to sync on 3G or 4G. Not sure it's really possible to run a full-time node that way though, maybe just to run your own wallet. But maybe.

The R-Pi is basically a cellphone but missing some of the radio stuff. I'm not sure why you would want to do things that way though. It's going to be a battery killer.

There's no reason not to run a full node with proper hardware and a low-cost network connection and access the wallet using RPC calls if you want to be using your own node.

[AliceWonderMiscreations]

I believe in the original vision of bitcoin, ie "being your own bank."

Exactly

[ace9989]

Maybe cell phones can be adopted as node (just a thought)....

With wallet pruning it can get down to 2gb which makes it possible. As long as it's still possible to sync on 3G or 4G. Not sure it's really possible to run a full-time node that way though, maybe just to run your own wallet. But maybe.

The R-Pi is basically a cellphone but missing some of the radio stuff. I'm not sure why you would want to do things that way though. It's going to be a battery killer.

There's no reason not to run a full node with proper hardware and a low-cost network connection and access the wallet using RPC calls if you want to be using your own node.

Some people only have mobile to connect to the internet. No PCs, 3G. Lot of people actually. This way they can validate transactions for themselves. Could just sync for personal transactions and run in listen-only for minimum impact. I think it is great that this is now possible -- kudos to Core.

[AliceWonderMiscreations]

Maybe cell phones can be adopted as node (just a thought)....

With wallet pruning it can get down to 2gb which makes it possible. As long as it's still possible to sync on 3G or 4G. Not sure it's really possible to run a full-time node that way though, maybe just to run your own wallet. But maybe.

The R-Pi is basically a cellphone but missing some of the radio stuff. I'm not sure why you would want to do things that way though. It's going to be a battery killer.

There's no reason not to run a full node with proper hardware and a low-cost network connection and access the wallet using RPC calls if you want to be using your own node.

Some people only have mobile to connect to the internet. No PCs, 3G. Lot of people actually. This way they can validate transactions for themselves. Could just sync for personal transactions and run in listen-only for minimum impact. I think it is great that this is now possible -- kudos to Core.

Well to be honest, I would rather see an effort to get better Internet access and stable electrical power to those people.

The next Satoshi could be a young girl living in poverty in Chad, maybe if she had Internet access she could have a future we all benefit from instead of growing up to do manual labor.

Yes let us try to keep the blocks small, but lets treat the disease and not just accommodate the symptom.

[Bubble Dreams]

Some people only have mobile to connect to the internet. No PCs, 3G. Lot of people actually. This way they can validate transactions for themselves. Could just sync for personal transactions and run in listen-only for minimum impact. I think it is great that this is now possible -- kudos to Core.

Well to be honest, I would rather see an effort to get better Internet access and stable electrical power to those people.

Feel free to donate. Rolling out fiber optic infrastructure is insanely expensive, one of the reasons why its not very widespread yet. Bitcoin is limited to the private/govt internet infrastructure (one of its weakenesses) so it makes sense to aim to accomomdate high latency/low bandwidth situations, rather than aiming to eventually be ahead of the tech curve. What Id like to see are real scaling solutions for bitcoin that mean you can run a node on a phone AND we can see continued adoption.

What I'd like to know is how much spam can be squeezed out of the system. People say "spam" is subjective but it (and "dust") have pretty specific definitions in bitcoins history -- uneconomic transactions. There is still a lot of dust tx being pushed around (that's why the threshold went up recently to 2730 from 546 satoshis). A fee market should help squeeze some of that traffic out.

We gonna need a fee market sooner than later. Going on 16 million out 21 million coins already mined. That means we are on the tail end. When that reward dwindles, fees need to be there to incentivize miners to secure the system.

[UngratefulTony]

OP was banned today. So I suppose we shouldn't expect any updates for a while.

Decentralization at work. If you can snuff out all opposing viewpoints... you have uncontentious consensus! Next, mewn!

[Richy_T]

Some people only have mobile to connect to the internet. No PCs, 3G. Lot of people actually. This way they can validate transactions for themselves. Could just sync for personal transactions and run in listen-only for minimum impact. I think it is great that this is now possible -- kudos to Core.

Well to be honest, I would rather see an effort to get better Internet access and stable electrical power to those people.

Feel free to donate. Rolling out fiber optic infrastructure is insanely expensive, one of the reasons why its not very widespread yet. Bitcoin is limited to the private/govt internet infrastructure (one of its weakenesses) so it makes sense to aim to accomomdate high latency/low bandwidth situations, rather than aiming to eventually be ahead of the tech curve. What Id like to see are real scaling solutions for bitcoin that mean you can run a node on a phone AND we can see continued adoption.

What I'd like to know is how much spam can be squeezed out of the system. People say "spam" is subjective but it (and "dust") have pretty specific definitions in bitcoins history -- uneconomic transactions. There is still a lot of dust tx being pushed around (that's why the threshold went up recently to 2730 from 546 satoshis). A fee market should help squeeze some of that traffic out.

We gonna need a fee market sooner than later. Going on 16 million out 21 million coins already mined. That means we are on the tail end. When that reward dwindles, fees need to be there to incentivize miners to secure the system.

And when fees are high enough that they are a days wages for some people, what would be the incentive for them to want to validate Bitcoin transactions? For the two transactions per year they do to put funds on the lightning network?

[AliceWonderMiscreations]

And when fees are high enough that they are a days wages for some people, what would be the incentive for them to want to validate Bitcoin transactions?

If bitcoin transactions become too expensive for some people, an altcoin will pop up to fill the need.

[Richy_T]

And when fees are high enough that they are a days wages for some people, what would be the incentive for them to want to validate Bitcoin transactions?

If bitcoin transactions become too expensive for some people, an altcoin will pop up to fill the need.

Yes, indeed.

[exstasie]

And when fees are high enough that they are a days wages for some people

Any evidence of this, or just more FUD? And with the Lightning Network, fees would necessarily be much cheaper than on-chain because there is much less cost (propagation/bandwidth) required. One would of course want to be able to validate the settlement transactions on-chain.

[Bazelak]

And when fees are high enough that they are a days wages for some people

Any evidence of this, or just more FUD? And with the Lightning Network, fees would necessarily be much cheaper than on-chain because there is much less cost (propagation/bandwidth) required. One would of course want to be able to validate the settlement transactions on-chain.

When the block size is not increased to higher value, people will have to compete to have their transactions confirmed. The price will be high.

[watashi-kokoto]

What's worse compete with paid bitcoin shills or with paid spam transactions.

[bob123]

And when fees are high enough that they are a days wages for some people, what would be the incentive for them to want to validate Bitcoin transactions?

If bitcoin transactions become too expensive for some people, an altcoin will pop up to fill the need.

To be honestly i dont think this would happen.
I cant think of an Altcoin which would be established enough to fill the gap.
Any special altcoin you're thinkin about?

[Bazelak]

And when fees are high enough that they are a days wages for some people, what would be the incentive for them to want to validate Bitcoin transactions?

If bitcoin transactions become too expensive for some people, an altcoin will pop up to fill the need.

To be honestly i dont think this would happen.
I cant think of an Altcoin which would be established enough to fill the gap.
Any special altcoin you're thinkin about?

It is not the feautre of the coin that fail the bitcoin. It is the power sturggle within the developers and the community.

[chopstick]

Hey I have an idea, let's take over bitcoin development and then permanently limit the blocksize (which was always meant by Satoshi to be increased) and force everyone onto off-chain solutions for our personal profit!

I'm sure it will succeed. Or maybe, everyone will just jump ship onto altcoins. Oh well fuck it, I guess we'll just take the chance.

-Blockstream logic

[chopstick]

OP was banned today. So I suppose we shouldn't expect any updates for a while.

Decentralization at work. If you can snuff out all opposing viewpoints... you have uncontentious consensus! Next, mewn!

He was too close to penetrating the matrix. Some agents had to come and take him away to some underground dungeon.