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Author Topic: On Judaism and Interest: [Wanted] MTUSD loan, 1%/mo, BTC collateral, Up to $10K  (Read 925 times)
21after2
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January 25, 2013, 06:36:31 PM
 #1

sorry for go off topic (kinda) but I'm curious why you can only offer interest to non jewish people ?

I'm jewish.. which is why i am wondering...

“You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest. You may charge a foreigner interest, but you may not charge your brother interest, that the Lord your God may bless you in all that you undertake in the land that you are entering to take possession of it." Deuteronomy 23:19-20

No interest to fellow Jewish people in Judaism. Wink
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January 25, 2013, 08:00:57 PM
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“You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest. You may charge a foreigner interest, but you may not charge your brother interest, that the Lord your God may bless you in all that you undertake in the land that you are entering to take possession of it." Deuteronomy 23:19-20

"If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. " Deuteronomy 22:20-1

Crazy that people are still influenced by these ancient "teachings".  Let's hope Meni doesn't have any daughters!  Grin

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21after2
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January 25, 2013, 08:35:31 PM
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“You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest. You may charge a foreigner interest, but you may not charge your brother interest, that the Lord your God may bless you in all that you undertake in the land that you are entering to take possession of it." Deuteronomy 23:19-20

"If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. " Deuteronomy 22:20-1

Crazy that people are still influenced by these ancient "teachings".  Let's hope Meni doesn't have any daughters!  Grin

If you look at the culture of that time period, it's not that unusual: the Hebrews were not the only people who used stoning as a form of capital punishment, and virginity was a valued thing to look for in a woman (that also spanned across various cultures and religions of the time).

It's also important to note that Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy were not books of teaching, but books of law. It's sort of like comparing the works of Plato to the US Constitution: philosophy vs. law. Different purposes.

Now if you want some stuff that's really out there, check out some of the apocrypha. I recommend the Gospel According to Thomas, my favorite line of which is "Blessed is the lion who consumes a man, for he shall become a man. But cursed is the man who consumes a lion, for he shall become a lion." It's a wonder why it was never included in Biblical canon. Tongue
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January 25, 2013, 08:38:56 PM
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Now if you want some stuff that's really out there, check out some of the apocrypha. I recommend the Gospel According to Thomas, my favorite line of which is "Blessed is the lion who consumes a man, for he shall become a man. But cursed is the man who consumes a lion, for he shall become a lion." It's a wonder why it was never included in Biblical canon. Tongue

Recommending the book of Enoch just for additional WTFity.
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January 25, 2013, 08:41:51 PM
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Now if you want some stuff that's really out there, check out some of the apocrypha. I recommend the Gospel According to Thomas, my favorite line of which is "Blessed is the lion who consumes a man, for he shall become a man. But cursed is the man who consumes a lion, for he shall become a lion." It's a wonder why it was never included in Biblical canon. Tongue

Recommending the book of Enoch just for additional WTFity.

That's the one that contains the background of the nephilim, right? That was another strange one.
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January 26, 2013, 04:11:33 AM
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Congratulations, you have diverted the topic of this thread into a heated debate about religion.
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January 26, 2013, 04:18:33 AM
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Congratulations, you have diverted the topic of this thread into a heated debate about religion.

I don't know if any of this could be called "heated."
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January 26, 2013, 04:24:25 AM
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Good luck on getting funding.

Personally I think you should treat all people equally when it comes to interest.
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January 26, 2013, 04:27:12 PM
 #9

“You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest. You may charge a foreigner interest, but you may not charge your brother interest, that the Lord your God may bless you in all that you undertake in the land that you are entering to take possession of it." Deuteronomy 23:19-20

"If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. " Deuteronomy 22:20-1

Crazy that people are still influenced by these ancient "teachings".  Let's hope Meni doesn't have any daughters!  Grin
Not yet and I don't plan on stoning anyone. I just asked for a loan. Sheesh.

I can only offer interest if you are not Jewish.
Under Jewish law, you are not allowed to charge another Jew interest. But here, you are rendering interest upon another Jew. I don't see why this is forbidden.
AFAIK it's not forbidden in the written Torah, but in the Mishna (Bava Metzia 75b) we have:
Quote
These violate a negative commandment: the one who loans, the one who borrows, the guarantor, the witnesses, and the Sages say even the scribe who writes the document.

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January 28, 2013, 11:45:01 AM
 #10

I just have to put this forth. Please note that the intention is not to make anyone upset or hurt anyones feelings.

But technology is neutral, it's based on facts, logical rules, and science.

Religion is made up stuff, and the practitioners are living by rules made in ancient books written by random persons. Whatever religion you adhere to, you're adhering to a very old thing that has no relevance or place in modern society. Think of it for a minute, the only reason why you are involved with a certain religion is likely because this is what you're born into.

Many religions have good values to live by, but pointing to old books and certain passages to make a point clear, that's just going to make you look like a fool to educated people.


Now, some people will probably be offended by this, as it's ingrained in their life, their family are religious, they go to church, they abide by their teachings and so on..

But in reality, not taking interest for a loan given to a jew from a jew, but take interest from everyone else, could in this time and age be considered a kind of different treatment that's should not be approved at all.


In this time and age, it's sad that people let their lifes be dictated by old writings that certainly does not fit into this time and age, and we must also not dismiss the possibility that there was always an agenda for these old teachings. Religion in a organized form is only about power and control.

You can be a very good human being, even if you don't adhere to any of the main religions, in fact you can be a good human being if you don't adhere to any religion at all.

Do you adhere to your religion and your customs because your family expects it ? In that case a man is weak, stand up for your self. Tell everyone that you can be a good man without adhering to any religion.

I am sick of all this religion bullshit stuff. If you're religious, keep it for yourself, in your own home, don't bring it with you on the street or in business. People simply don't care. It only brings troubble.
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January 28, 2013, 12:34:57 PM
 #11

Really? It was one line in the OP.

I'm an atheist, but stop derailing this topic to religion. Let people decide for themselves what to follow (if any), and don't bring more religious debates to unrelated topics.
Herodes
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January 28, 2013, 12:40:53 PM
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Really? It was one line in the OP.

I'm an atheist, but stop derailing this topic to religion. Let people decide for themselves what to follow (if any), and don't bring more religious debates to unrelated topics.

It's bigger than that. People need to start thinking, and stop accepting blindly whatever information their fed by their parents, their schools, their universites and their governments.

Would you be happy if you were on a road trip, and my gas station was the last one before a long stretch of dessert, but I wouldn't serve you for whatever reason because my religion forbid it because you were x or you wore n or you spoke y ?

I don't care if people are jewish, christians, muslims, or worship the great spagetthimonster, but once you feed that bullshit to me, I will speak up. Always.

If you want to avoid that, don't bring with you religion into your business dealings.
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January 28, 2013, 01:09:53 PM
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@Herodes - I wrote a post about a private deal I would like to do, and included an innocent line describing one of the desired terms.

You turned it into a witch hunt trying to force your opinions on me and telling me how I should live my life and how I should do business, and with whom.

So which one of us has a problem, really?


...logical rules...
Clearly you've never spent any time studying Gemara.

Gemara study is all about making logical deductions. My brother who does this regularly has x10 my own ability to store the different pieces of an argument in his working memory and follow them to their conclusion. And I'm a mathematician so myself I have a better-than average ability to do that.

that has no relevance or place in modern society.
False, it (whatever "it" is) certainly has both relevance and place, regardless of the truth value of the underlying beliefs.

Many religions have good values to live by, but pointing to old books and certain passages to make a point clear, that's just going to make you look like a fool to educated people.
To bigoted closed-minded educated people, yes.

But in reality, not taking interest for a loan given to a jew from a jew, but take interest from everyone else, could in this time and age be considered a kind of different treatment that's should not be approved at all.
I have a right to choose my business partners and the nature of my private agreement with them.

You can be a very good human being, even if you don't adhere to any of the main religions, in fact you can be a good human being if you don't adhere to any religion at all.
And you can be a very good human being with adhering to a religion, so why the crusade?

If you're religious, keep it for yourself, in your own home, don't bring it with you on the street or in business. People simply don't care. It only brings troubble.
I'm not religious. See above about my right to choose how to do business and with whom. The kind of people who are so closed-minded and self-centered that they are troubled by this, are people I probably wouldn't want to do business with anyway.

People need to start thinking, and stop accepting blindly whatever information their fed by their parents, their schools, their universites and their governments.
Frankly you have no idea what I think and what information I was fed. Feel free to dismount from your high horse.

Would you be happy if you were on a road trip, and my gas station was the last one before a long stretch of dessert, but I wouldn't serve you for whatever reason because my religion forbid it because you were x or you wore n or you spoke y ?
If it is reasonably expected that the gas station operator should serve everyone, he would be wrong to deny anyone, regardless of his reasons.

But if it's a private deal for which I am expected to be selective about my counterparty, I can refuse to do business for whatever reason I want.

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January 28, 2013, 02:01:00 PM
 #14

I can't be bothered with reading everything in this topic, I have other things to do.

But I can say this: If you want to exercise your freedom to religion, you will also have to tolerate that others do not agree with you.

Treating non-jews differently than jews is a kind of discrimination against non-jews, under the disguise of religion.

I am on no high horse, I am not better than anyone else, neither are you, but I exercise my right to freedom of speech.

In this time and age, old books written by entities (organized religion) that was all about power and control, have no place.

That's all I have to say about this subject.
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January 28, 2013, 03:41:20 PM
 #15

Religion is like a penis.

It's nice to have one, and you can be proud of it.  But don't whip it out in public and start waving it around.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
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January 28, 2013, 03:51:48 PM
 #16

Religion is like a penis.

It's nice to have one, and you can be proud of it.  But don't whip it out in public and start waving it around.
[sarcasm]
But atheist fanatics can of course wave their atheism around and zealously attack the religious infidels.
[/sarcasm]

The hypocrisy here is simply unbelievable.

Anyway, a short line about a preferred way to do business is not "waving it around".

I did duly note that the community can't tolerate openness and transparency, and will try to hide more things in the future.

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January 29, 2013, 10:30:36 AM
 #17


“You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest. You may charge a foreigner interest, but you may not charge your brother interest, that the Lord your God may bless you in all that you undertake in the land that you are entering to take possession of it." Deuteronomy 23:19-20



All foreigners are your brothers and sisters.  Assuming you are a primate.   
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