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Author Topic: Reinvest some gains in mining!  (Read 1190 times)
Steve
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June 09, 2011, 12:25:03 PM
 #1

One of the popular recent themes around mining is that it hasn't been as profitable when compared with just investing in bitcoin directly.  And this is true.  But I have the following suggestion:

- take some of your gains from bitcoin appreciation and reinvest into mining

Why?  Because the network needs to get a lot stronger in my opinion and we need more miners.  Mining helps strengthen the network.  It's also taking some gains and putting them into a less risky way of investing in bitcoin.

(I tried to keep this message short so that it would actually be read by people)

(gasteve on IRC) Does your website accept cash? https://bitpay.com
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rezin777
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June 09, 2011, 01:28:46 PM
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I agree with you Steve.

Many miners here get angry when new miners come into the network. They aren't concerned about Bitcoin security (look at the size of deepbit), they are concerned with making a quick buck. I'm sure a majority of miners don't even hold Bitcoins, they cash to fiat ASAP.

In the long run, we want intelligent, efficient, stable, distributed miners that are concerned with keeping the Bitcoin network secure. As long as the Bitcoin exchange rate is volatile (and increasing) we will get miners that don't understand what they are doing, and are concerned only about short term profits (ignoring what is best for the network and long term growth).

Hopefully none of this matters and the Bitcoin network will grow large and robust regardless. Hopefully the new miners will learn more about the way things work and dedicate themselves to Bitcoin's success.
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June 09, 2011, 01:37:26 PM
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I agree with you Steve.

Many miners here get angry when new miners come into the network. They aren't concerned about Bitcoin security (look at the size of deepbit), they are concerned with making a quick buck. I'm sure a majority of miners don't even hold Bitcoins, they cash to fiat ASAP.

In the long run, we want intelligent, efficient, stable, distributed miners that are concerned with keeping the Bitcoin network secure. As long as the Bitcoin exchange rate is volatile (and increasing) we will get miners that don't understand what they are doing, and are concerned only about short term profits (ignoring what is best for the network and long term growth).

Hopefully none of this matters and the Bitcoin network will grow large and robust regardless. Hopefully the new miners will learn more about the way things work and dedicate themselves to Bitcoin's success.


I love how every member who is likely holding large number of btc already always says more miner is good when we dont' need more power to secure network in any way right now. All pure nonsense powered by greed to raise the price in a bubble like fashion as fast as possible. We don't need more hashing power to secure right now and we haven't needed more for quite some time.
rezin777
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June 09, 2011, 01:50:00 PM
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I love how every member who is likely holding large number of btc already always says more miner is good when we dont' need more power to secure network in any way right now. All pure nonsense powered by greed to raise the price in a bubble like fashion as fast as possible. We don't need more hashing power to secure right now and we haven't needed more for quite some time.

Don't assume things about people, it makes you look silly.

Can you tell me how much hashing power is enough to secure a 200,000,000 dollar(USD) market? Do you know how much an attack would cost right now? What percentage of the market does the attack cost?

I love how miners who are motivated by their petty greed don't want to see more hashing power come into the network and compete with them.
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June 09, 2011, 01:56:41 PM
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I love how every member who is likely holding large number of btc already always says more miner is good when we dont' need more power to secure network in any way right now. All pure nonsense powered by greed to raise the price in a bubble like fashion as fast as possible. We don't need more hashing power to secure right now and we haven't needed more for quite some time.

Don't assume things about people, it makes you look silly.

Can you tell me how much hashing power is enough to secure a 200,000,000 dollar(USD) market? Do you know how much an attack would cost right now? What percentage of the market does the attack cost?

I love how miners who are motivated by their petty greed don't want to see more hashing power come into the network and compete with them.

Don't blame people for trying to make money, it is a bad economy. Any currency or "economy" needs to be able to withstand the smash and grab approach in order for it to be taken at full merit.


that being said 3x 5830's incoming.

I dont like the guy. How many reasons do I have? alot.
How many reasons do I need? none.
I just dont like the guy.

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rezin777
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June 09, 2011, 01:58:55 PM
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Don't blame people for trying to make money, it is a bad economy. Any currency or "economy" needs to be able to withstand the smash and grab approach, in order for it to be taken at full merit.

I don't blame anyone for trying to make money. I think most people are short sighted when it comes to mining, which is a marathon, not a sprint.
Jdumond
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June 09, 2011, 02:00:40 PM
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Don't blame people for trying to make money, it is a bad economy. Any currency or "economy" needs to be able to withstand the smash and grab approach, in order for it to be taken at full merit.

I don't blame anyone for trying to make money. I think most people are short sighted when it comes to mining, which is a marathon, not a sprint.

True, but the only way to get these folks to turn into marathon runners is to show them consistent success and tangible results.

they see $$$, they will be more likely to talk about it to friend/family buy rigs ect.

I dont like the guy. How many reasons do I have? alot.
How many reasons do I need? none.
I just dont like the guy.

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rezin777
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June 09, 2011, 02:10:29 PM
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True, but the only way to get these folks to turn into marathon runners is to show them consistent success and tangible results.

they see $$$, they will be more likely to talk about it to friend/family buy rigs ect.

Well, it's hard to show anyone consistent success and tangible results when the market is so volatile!  Grin Bitcoins are indeed a high risk investment.
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June 09, 2011, 02:12:47 PM
 #9

if you want to buy mining optimized computers, I build them. www.bitcoinsystems.com

I will accept BTC as payment also if you want. PM me if you are interested!

Steve
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June 09, 2011, 11:34:35 PM
 #10

So, by my calculation, ~$30 million would buy you the ability to compromise bitcoin (with a few more million spent monthly to stay ahead of other miners).  That's a scary small number to me.  Mining does not drive the price of bitcoin up...demand for bitcoins drives up the prices.  I'm just suggesting that some people take some of the profits that they've made from the appreciation in the price of bitcoin and put it into mining.  I myself have just about maxed out what I can support without bringing in new wiring, new air conditioning or renting a warehouse.  I'm at ~4 Gh/s currently.  Mining has been less profitable than investing in bitcoins recently, so I'm just encouraging people to take a more long term view and consider applying some of the new wealth flowing into the economy to making the network more resilient.

(gasteve on IRC) Does your website accept cash? https://bitpay.com
carbonc
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June 09, 2011, 11:46:46 PM
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I've take a different approach.  I started with my single 4890 a while back. (purchased to play BFBC2).  Started mining.  used the sales of my BTC to buy 5830's.  Used the sales to buy 6970's (for BF3) lol. 

The only money I've spent is electricity and my original card.

I've built up to 1.2 GH/s from 100 MH/s without spending much at all.

Now I'm amost ready for another system.
Hope to goto 2.2 GH/s in the next week or so.
Freakin
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June 10, 2011, 12:21:44 AM
 #12

I agree with you Steve.

Many miners here get angry when new miners come into the network. They aren't concerned about Bitcoin security (look at the size of deepbit), they are concerned with making a quick buck. I'm sure a majority of miners don't even hold Bitcoins, they cash to fiat ASAP.

In the long run, we want intelligent, efficient, stable, distributed miners that are concerned with keeping the Bitcoin network secure. As long as the Bitcoin exchange rate is volatile (and increasing) we will get miners that don't understand what they are doing, and are concerned only about short term profits (ignoring what is best for the network and long term growth).

Hopefully none of this matters and the Bitcoin network will grow large and robust regardless. Hopefully the new miners will learn more about the way things work and dedicate themselves to Bitcoin's success.


I love how every member who is likely holding large number of btc already always says more miner is good when we dont' need more power to secure network in any way right now. All pure nonsense powered by greed to raise the price in a bubble like fashion as fast as possible. We don't need more hashing power to secure right now and we haven't needed more for quite some time.

we absolutely need more miners.  the network is nowhere close to strong enough right now.  The government or a wealthy individual could get >50% with a smallish investment in hardware
Capitan
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June 10, 2011, 12:21:56 AM
 #13

Why not just set up a BTC mining non profit? Need 2 things:

1. Mining clients that can alternate between all available pools automatically. So like a distributed mining proxy pool. (distribute that to everyone will help security overall as people get bennies of large pool + danger of too much power in single pools is reduced). 0.025% (quarter of a percent vs. 3.00% for deep pool) of mining through this pool of pools goes towards the BTC nonprofit.

2. BTC mining non profit. Team of guys in each city get together (would work best if they were in the same city) to set up mining operations. Multiple per city, even better, but efforts would need to be coordinated. After their fund reaches acceptable starting point they start mining, and all profits go back towards mining. Maybe a cap on mining power for each such team, to spread out power for a more robust network. A way of halting funding once each team reaches self sustainability would be needed as well.

Just a thought.
rezin777
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June 10, 2011, 01:15:13 AM
 #14

Why not just set up a BTC mining non profit? Need 2 things:

1. Mining clients that can alternate between all available pools automatically. So like a distributed mining proxy pool. (distribute that to everyone will help security overall as people get bennies of large pool + danger of too much power in single pools is reduced). 0.025% (quarter of a percent vs. 3.00% for deep pool) of mining through this pool of pools goes towards the BTC nonprofit.

2. BTC mining non profit. Team of guys in each city get together (would work best if they were in the same city) to set up mining operations. Multiple per city, even better, but efforts would need to be coordinated. After their fund reaches acceptable starting point they start mining, and all profits go back towards mining. Maybe a cap on mining power for each such team, to spread out power for a more robust network. A way of halting funding once each team reaches self sustainability would be needed as well.

Just a thought.

Very interesting idea (both of them, but especially #2). I like it! The non profit miners could use the smaller pools to balance the network and keep it healthy. Or if they get enough hashing power just mine solo which is very healthy for the network.  

Also, half the profits could be reinvesting in the mining operation (and costs, electricity and whatnot). And the other half could go towards Bitcoin promotional sites like the Faucet!
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