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Author Topic: Has Avalon promised not mining themselves after the Batch#2 ?  (Read 1664 times)
HorseRider
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January 30, 2013, 08:14:13 AM
 #1

We all know that USD 1 million can make lots lots lots of hashing power far more than 600 units if they don't have to tape out this time.

A short question, and expecting short answering. Thanks.

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cedivad
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January 30, 2013, 08:17:40 AM
 #2

We all know that USD 1 million can make lots lots lots of hashing power far more than 600 units if they don't have to tape out this time.

A short question, and expecting short answering. Thanks.
I don't rember them promising this specifically.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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January 30, 2013, 08:21:23 AM
 #3

The longer question is, what is the excessive money Avalon going to be used for, if they really have chips in hand. I hope it will not be used to produce 10-15 times of hashing power to make you all Batach#2 miners "without dignity and human rights"( by ngzhang).

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January 30, 2013, 08:30:13 AM
 #4

Why does Avalon need to charge the customer advance in 100% full? why not just 10% in advance, and charge the rest 90% when they are ready to ship?

This time, Avalon need not to tape out. Avalon does not need so much money at this stage.

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January 30, 2013, 09:11:51 AM
 #5

Who cares what they need? Do you need an asic device for mining bitcoins? Answer:No
Maybe it's just something they want. Like how you want what you want. What does it matter?

*I typed a whole bunch more stuff that  I knew would just tick people off real good. I thought about it, then erased it.
Just not worth it. I can't wait till this seemingly endless period of time to finally come to an end.

Successful trades with bels, misterbigg, ChrisNelson, shackleford, geniusboy91, and Isokivi.
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January 30, 2013, 09:18:05 AM
 #6

Avalon this time does not need so much money. The customers should learn to negotiate with those providers if you still have any interest in ordering the product after all the doubts.



Customers do not have to accept whatever the sellers told you to accept, even if you want products from them badly. If Avalon compete with its customers, all the customers will be ruined. (IF Avalon really can ship products.) If Avalon is a scam, they will be ruined faster.

Saving the money in bitcoin for a 2 month is far more favorable than putting it into a pre-order which has no guarantee of ship time. We all have learnt about this.

Don't pay the money in full advance, make them give no competing promise, and wait Avalon to change the term of pre-ordering. Even if the Jeff received the product, it is not 100% safe to order from Avalon.


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January 30, 2013, 10:12:09 AM
 #7


If there are still some believers. I think they would better contact each other and unit, try to negotiate the terms and conditions of the pre-ordering. 

Avalon team need the money right now according to them. It is not necessarily true of course, however, the customers can take this as negotiation leverage.

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January 30, 2013, 10:14:27 AM
 #8

If there are still some believers. I think they would better contact each other and unit, try to negotiate the terms and conditions of the pre-ordering. 

Avalon team need the money right now according to them. It is not necessarily true of course, however, the customers can take this as negotiation leverage.
You know that customers won't band together and negotiate for better terms though, right?

The "strike-breaker" here would be the first customer who thinks, forget about the other guys, I want an ASIC first and I'll mine a whole bunch of coins before they get any, suckers!

That may not be true but it's too much of a temptation. No customer coalitions will form in the race to get one of the first ASICs produced.
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January 30, 2013, 10:18:04 AM
 #9

I will simply not buy from the second batch and let the free maket do its job.

BFL is exiting gloriously from this mess.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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January 30, 2013, 11:06:18 AM
 #10

If one or two of the most promising ASIC producers actually get something to market they will effectively shut out the competition:

The following wannabe ASIC producer will face the same capital costs for a product that is less profittable for the consumer so the market will be smaller and the price have to be lower. It will not be worth the money to market an ASIC, Your best bet will be to buy the ASIC company at a discount. I don't believe that a ROI horizon beyond the warranty period will fly with the customers.

So it is a cut throat race to be in the ASIC business. Be first or loose out "in the millions" big, hence the FUD and tight terms of buying from Avalon.


 
 
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January 30, 2013, 12:58:45 PM
 #11

Why does Avalon need to charge the customer advance in 100% full? why not just 10% in advance, and charge the rest 90% when they are ready to ship?

This time, Avalon need not to tape out. Avalon does not need so much money at this stage.
Because they're going to get people who don't pay the 90%?
HorseRider
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January 30, 2013, 01:04:43 PM
 #12

Why does Avalon need to charge the customer advance in 100% full? why not just 10% in advance, and charge the rest 90% when they are ready to ship?

This time, Avalon need not to tape out. Avalon does not need so much money at this stage.
Because they're going to get people who don't pay the 90%?

people should pay the rest of 90% before shipping. This is standard procedure when doing fair trade. Share the financing responsibility and risk equally.

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January 30, 2013, 01:24:57 PM
 #13

Why does Avalon need to charge the customer advance in 100% full? why not just 10% in advance, and charge the rest 90% when they are ready to ship?

This time, Avalon need not to tape out. Avalon does not need so much money at this stage.
Because they're going to get people who don't pay the 90%?

people should pay the rest of 90% before shipping. This is standard procedure when doing fair trade. Share the financing responsibility and risk equally.
If people only put down 10% and BFL delivers before the second Avalon batch is completed, there is a possiblity that some people will simply walk away from their orders since they only stand to lose 10%. Maybe they don't want to risk that?
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January 30, 2013, 01:35:27 PM
 #14

Why does Avalon need to charge the customer advance in 100% full? why not just 10% in advance, and charge the rest 90% when they are ready to ship?

This time, Avalon need not to tape out. Avalon does not need so much money at this stage.
Because they're going to get people who don't pay the 90%?

people should pay the rest of 90% before shipping. This is standard procedure when doing fair trade. Share the financing responsibility and risk equally.
If people only put down 10% and BFL delivers before the second Avalon batch is completed, there is a possiblity that some people will simply walk away from their orders since they only stand to lose 10%. Maybe they don't want to risk that?

That's what we mean "share the risk". BFL is the risk factor here. Paying full in advance is putting all the risk on the shoulders of customers, I think the potential customers should think about it before pay the money. This time is really different than the Oct of last year.

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January 30, 2013, 06:28:25 PM
 #15

Why does Avalon need to charge the customer advance in 100% full? why not just 10% in advance, and charge the rest 90% when they are ready to ship?

This time, Avalon need not to tape out. Avalon does not need so much money at this stage.
Because they're going to get people who don't pay the 90%?

people should pay the rest of 90% before shipping. This is standard procedure when doing fair trade. Share the financing responsibility and risk equally.

It is not standard for customers to pay Wal-Mart before a product is produced.  What is standard is for Wal-Mart to buy/ship the products from builders and stock them on their shelves, and then customers pay.  Wal-Mart, like any other seller, assumes a huge risk in this investment: there is the risk that noone will buy what they are paying for.  But this is the standard.

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January 30, 2013, 09:12:59 PM
 #16

I don't care if Avalon were to run a third batch for themselves IF they are considerate enough to not attempt a 51% attack. While not ideal, they could mass produce a significant chunk of the network hash rate using the fixed cost resources that miners paid for. I haven't done the math but it seems logical that Avalon should manufacture and host enough hash power to cover their internal non-component costs(salary, rent, etc) and continue to use miners to fund lithography shrinks and future products. Continuously funnel a portion of the new products to their private farm to maintain a constant percentage of the network but not enough to raise any suspicions.

It is for the best that I'm not in Avalon's position. I'd be ruthlessly exploiting the greed of miners to line my pockets  Cheesy
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