Resolving between persons

[JackH]

Resolving

[davout]

chargeback, rate, stop the drama

[JackH]

Resolving

[tiner]

I don't want to bring this dispute onto the forums but it looks like it's happening anyway.

My version of the story is:
I sold btc to an unrated and unregistered user named pork_ for ppusd (foolishly).
I received the money and sent him the btc and the transaction is complete.
Then I noticed that a dispute has been filed. I asked the user to contact me in irc.
jacker224 contacts me claiming he sent money for btc and didn't receive it. He claims that he has no idea who pork_ is.
I have only ever sold btc to one person. I could contact all of the users that have rated me to prove this. Therefore pork_ and jacker224 must be the same person. Why is he pretending to be someone else?

jacker224 is trying to tarnish my reputation to extort more money out of me. I am an honest trader with many successful transactions, and a high rating. I can get other traders to vouch for me if need be and I can post chat logs of my transaction with the user pork_, the only person I have ever sold btc to on #bitcoin-otc.

The lesson is: never sell btc for ppusd to low rated users.

edit: If possible could the mods at least move this topic from the Marketplace forum. This is not the place for disputes.

[Garrett Burgwardt]

Never use paypal:

http://thebitcoinsun.com/post/2011/06/05/The-Paypal-Problem

[wol-va-rine]

I sold 15 btcs to Tiner some days ago using paypal and everything went super smoothly. This guy is really nice and comprehensive. I'm having a really hard time to believe he could scam someone (someone not even registered). Also, Tiner asked for proofs that jacker never sent...

Am I the only one that thinks Jacker is actually the scammer?

kinda weird that tiner logs off, and two minutes later you register and then make a post minutes after that in this thread, no...?

[Fiyasko]

I sold 15 btcs to Tiner some days ago using paypal and everything went super smoothly. This guy is really nice and comprehensive. I'm having a really hard time to believe he could scam someone (someone not even registered). Also, Tiner asked for proofs that jacker never sent...

Am I the only one that thinks Jacker is actually the scammer?

cocotton, You are Tiner

So Tiner.

SHUT THE FUCK UP

Charge him back, And tell paypal he's conducting activity with bitcoins, This will get his account frozen

[EvanR]

*Puts pipe in mouth*

Here's how it went down.

tiner sold bitcoins to pork_ basically without a hitch. tiner got 400 USD from paypal admin@italkcash.com at 20:30 BST. This is the same time that pork_ said he sent the paypal. pork_ paid tiner from admin@italkcash.com

Then jacker225 filed a paypal undelivered goods dispute at admin@italkcash.com (not fraud) and put the money into limbo, probably permanently. He claims that he bought coins from tiner that never arrived. tiner never met jacker225 before the log below. jacker225 claims that he never heard of pork_ and he is the one who sent the 400.

Therefore jacker225 is pork_, a paypal scammer with address admin@italkcash.com, logs below.

https://i.imgur.com/Mu7W2.jpg
http://pastebin.com/XJwz5PNz
http://pastebin.com/JTnDZxdZ

[seventoes]

jacker was in IRC earlier trying to pit us against Tiner. It's fairly obvious what's going on here, either jacker is in some massive coincidence with someone pretending to be tiner to play off of his good rating, or jacker is the scammer, trying to shame tiner into giving him more money. In any case, it's pretty obvious from the chat log that jacker posted that he's being a complete douche about the whole situation. Jacker didn't even try to help solve the issue in that log, he passed up every opportuntity that tiner gave him to prove what was going on.

[EvanR]

jacker225 and pork_ are effectively the same person. jacker225 claims he is not pork_, pork_ is no where to be found. Different IP addresses on freenode (one is webchat). The evidence above suggests they are the same, and jacker225 has no records or other evidence to show they are different. jacker225 and pork_ are effectively the same person.

[Fiyasko]

Hohohohoho, I am taking my fucking foot outta this door.
PEACE OUT

[wol-va-rine]

it's just a coincidence that you registered two minutes after tiner logged off, and then started posting...?

dude...

[KCanini]

It seems you have both been the victim of a very clever and well-executed scam. To give away the ending, it was a man-in-the-middle attack by a 3rd person. The scam was so good, in fact, that no one here seems to be able to recognize what actually happened. Sit back and listen as I recreate the scene:

0. The scammer (pork_) recognizes that #bitcoin-otc has a very serious flaw and sets out to exploit it to make a quick 20BTC for free.
1. The scammer (pork_) advertises that he wants to buy BTC on the #bitcoin-otc channel, and tiner contacts him about a sale
2. The scammer (pork_) and tiner agree to the terms of the sale, and tiner gives him his PayPal address so pork_ can send the payment
3. This part is crucial: The scammer (pork_) now has a limited amount of time to find a buyer to complete the scam. To give himself some time, he says: "<pork_> ill be a few minutes"
4. The scammer now goes into the channel using a different nick (let's call it "h___"), and advertises that he wants to sell some BTC for cheap (to get a buyer quickly)
5. jacker224 contacts the scammer (h___) and offers to buy the BTC
6. The scammer (h___) tells jacker224 to send the money to tiner's paypal address, and jacker224 does so
7. The scammer (pork_) tells tiner that he sent the payment, when in actuality it was jacker224 who sent the payment
8. tiner verifies that he has received the money, and sends the BTC to the scammer (pork_). As far as tiner is concerned, the transaction was 100% legit.
9. The scammer (h___) leaves his conversation with jacker224 without ever sending him the BTC
10. jacker224 never receives the BTC, so he initiates a PayPal dispute with tiner, causing this whole argument to erupt.
11. The scammer sits back and watches jacker224 and tiner argue about which one of them was the scammer.

[bitcoinTrader]

It seems you have both been the victim of a very clever and well-executed scam. To give away the ending, it was a man-in-the-middle attack by a 3rd person. The scam was so good, in fact, that no one here seems to be able to recognize what actually happened. Sit back and listen as I recreate the scene:

0. The scammer (pork_) recognizes that #bitcoin-otc has a very serious flaw and sets out to exploit it to make a quick 20BTC for free.
1. The scammer (pork_) advertises that he wants to buy BTC on the #bitcoin-otc channel, and tiner contacts him about a sale
2. The scammer (pork_) and tiner agree to the terms of the sale, and tiner gives him his PayPal address so pork_ can send the payment
3. This part is crucial: The scammer (pork_) now has a limited amount of time to find a buyer to complete the scam. To give himself some time, he says: "<pork_> ill be a few minutes"
4. The scammer now goes into the channel using a different nick (let's call it "h___"), and advertises that he wants to sell some BTC for cheap (to get a buyer quickly)
5. jacker224 contacts the scammer (h___) and offers to buy the BTC
6. The scammer (h___) tells jacker224 to send the money to tiner's paypal address, and jacker224 does so
7. The scammer (pork_) tells tiner that he sent the payment, when in actuality it was jacker224 who sent the payment
8. tiner verifies that he has received the money, and sends the BTC to the scammer (pork_). As far as tiner is concerned, the transaction was 100% legit.
9. The scammer (h___) leaves his conversation with jacker224 without sending ever him the BTC

But how does jacker224 contacts tiner?
Do you mean scammer logs in with tiner as nick (and not h___)?

[ensign_lee]

JackH is obviously a troll / scammer. Close this thread and move on plz.

[KCanini]

But how does jacker224 contacts tiner?
Do you mean scammer logs in with tiner as nick (and not h___)?

jacker224 and tiner never talked to each other until the PayPal dispute was filed (they both admit this). The scammer never logged in as tiner, he logged in as h___ while he was dealing with jacker224.

[sublimnl]

It seems you have both been the victim of a very clever and well-executed scam. To give away the ending, it was a man-in-the-middle attack by a 3rd person. The scam was so good, in fact, that no one here seems to be able to recognize what actually happened. Sit back and listen as I recreate the scene:

0. The scammer (pork_) recognizes that #bitcoin-otc has a very serious flaw and sets out to exploit it to make a quick 20BTC for free.
1. The scammer (pork_) advertises that he wants to buy BTC on the #bitcoin-otc channel, and tiner contacts him about a sale
2. The scammer (pork_) and tiner agree to the terms of the sale, and tiner gives him his PayPal address so pork_ can send the payment
3. This part is crucial: The scammer (pork_) now has a limited amount of time to find a buyer to complete the scam. To give himself some time, he says: "<pork_> ill be a few minutes"
4. The scammer now goes into the channel using a different nick (let's call it "h___"), and advertises that he wants to sell some BTC for cheap (to get a buyer quickly)
5. jacker224 contacts the scammer (h___) and offers to buy the BTC
6. The scammer (h___) tells jacker224 to send the money to tiner's paypal address, and jacker224 does so
7. The scammer (pork_) tells tiner that he sent the payment, when in actuality it was jacker224 who sent the payment
8. tiner verifies that he has received the money, and sends the BTC to the scammer (pork_). As far as tiner is concerned, the transaction was 100% legit.
9. The scammer (h___) leaves his conversation with jacker224 without ever sending him the BTC
10. jacker224 never receives the BTC, so he initiates a PayPal dispute with tiner, causing this whole argument to erupt.
11. The scammer sits back and watches jacker224 and tiner argue about which one of them was the scammer.

Wow... that's a well played MITM attack if that is the case...

[speeder]

I am inclined to agree with KCani (whoever he is).

And I am thinking now, that the guy that pulled that is clearly clever.

It is kinda obvious on the conversation, that both Tiner and Jack were distressed, with neither of them knowing what was going on... Noone is stupid enough to scam someone after receiving PayPal (ie: What Jack claims that Tiner did), and Jack behavior, putting his reputation in line (he is not a 1 post guy with no rating on OTC), shows that he really believe to be scammed.



Whoever is Mr. Pork_, he is a genius. (too bad that is for evil).

[seventoes]

It seems you have both been the victim of a very clever and well-executed scam. To give away the ending, it was a man-in-the-middle attack by a 3rd person. The scam was so good, in fact, that no one here seems to be able to recognize what actually happened. Sit back and listen as I recreate the scene:

0. The scammer (pork_) recognizes that #bitcoin-otc has a very serious flaw and sets out to exploit it to make a quick 20BTC for free.
1. The scammer (pork_) advertises that he wants to buy BTC on the #bitcoin-otc channel, and tiner contacts him about a sale
2. The scammer (pork_) and tiner agree to the terms of the sale, and tiner gives him his PayPal address so pork_ can send the payment
3. This part is crucial: The scammer (pork_) now has a limited amount of time to find a buyer to complete the scam. To give himself some time, he says: "<pork_> ill be a few minutes"
4. The scammer now goes into the channel using a different nick (let's call it "h___"), and advertises that he wants to sell some BTC for cheap (to get a buyer quickly)
5. jacker224 contacts the scammer (h___) and offers to buy the BTC
6. The scammer (h___) tells jacker224 to send the money to tiner's paypal address, and jacker224 does so
7. The scammer (pork_) tells tiner that he sent the payment, when in actuality it was jacker224 who sent the payment
8. tiner verifies that he has received the money, and sends the BTC to the scammer (pork_). As far as tiner is concerned, the transaction was 100% legit.
9. The scammer (h___) leaves his conversation with jacker224 without sending ever him the BTC

But how does jacker224 contacts tiner?
Do you mean scammer logs in with tiner as nick (and not h___)?

Wow, that totally fits. I wouldn't have put it together, but I'll be sure to watch for stuff like this in the future. Nice eye, KCanini!

[stabaho]

Hate to hear this happened. Everyone should remember not to do large transactions via paypal with low rated and no rated people.