Interesting Trading Question

[morantis]

I do not even know where to start with this.  I have been trying to advise some people to not do stupid things.  It is not going well, so I am opting for trying to keep them as safe as possible and maybe out of jail(probably not).

Bear in mind that I personally know these people and I know what they are saying is true, I also know that their situation is becoming difficult.  Here we go....

What started as a windfall for a friend of mine has turned into a nightmare.  A distant relative died and left them some things.  They were left with a real estate property with a house and everything that was in it.  At the same time they acquired the information regarding a bank account for the same DECEASED person.  

This all seemed very nice and they were happy to have received these things from a person they only met a few times.  Whatever this person did or did not do resulted in $300,000 in this bank account and some very strange personal belongings.  It is my belief that there was some pretty heavy organized crime associated with it all because on a Federal level and legal level, no one seems to know this bank account exists.  However, everyone knows the property itself exists, including several lien holders and the IRS.  Somehow the deceased used the same property as collateral in several institutional loans and transaction so the property with a value of around $200,000 is leveraged against nearly $1,000,000 in loans and those have come due.  The IRS wants around $30,000 for past taxes and the state wants $15,000 in property taxes.  

This all happened about two weeks ago.  Now, the property and most of the debts below to my friend and his family.  What he thought would make a nice rental property has become a trap.  After some checking, the IRS cannot do anything because that is not his tax debt, but the state taxes can.  My first piece of advice was let someone seize the property for money owed and walk away.  My attorney is helping my friend and said that would make things worse because the other creditors would come knocking.  Apparently, as long as the property is there on lien, most of the creditors are in a holding pattern.  

That brings us to the mystery bank account and things and ideas that will end badly for my friend.  He has never told the bank the person is deceased and the bank currently has no idea.  He wants to get that money out to pay the loans off and get out of the mess.  Night after night has gone by with him plotting ways to get the bank account money.  Then, one night at my house he, myself and a couple of others were having a few too many drinks and I started throwing out bad ideas.  I should have kept my mouth shut.  I said things like get pre-paid credit cards and load then online from the account,  money gram yourself the money and blah blah.  During this string of bad ideas, I checked a balance on a Bitcoin wallet and blurted out that he should use an anonymous Bitcoin site to but BTC with the account and then sell them back for cash/money.  I believe the term is "money laundering" lol.  I was drunk and it just came out.  

After several questions about Bitcoin, exchanges, FIAT, some dread pirates and such, he is now determined that this is the solution.  He has kids and is going broke trying to keep this "windfall" property from destroying him.  I am now at the point where if he does try to do this, I would like to provide as much protection for him as possible.  It was my bad idea and I want him to survive it.  He has enough bank info to do an ACH, but no actual ATM or credit access.  I have drilled into his head things like escrow, IP tracking, prison rape, exchange limits on anonymous sites and he is going to dive in soon.  

The best advice I have given him, besides not listening to me when I am drunk are these things.  

1. Find am anonymous site with escrow, like localbitcoins.  
2. Avoid in person transaction, normally I encourage meeting in person, but he is likely to be meeting the FBI with the amounts he will have to do.  
3. Do not get greedy and try for the whole amount, just enough to pay the debts.
3. Use a disposable tablet, brand new, paid with cash, with new anonymous Gmail account, from a free public WIFI point.  Once all is said and done, drop the tablet in a bucket of gasoline without having ever brought it near your home WIFI and never let the tablet connect to your phone.  After ten minutes in a gas bath, put the tablet in a plastic bag and smash it with a hammer until it is just parts, toss the bag, minus the hard drive in a lake and toss the hard drive in the storm gutter.

I can think of nothing else to tell him.  The very thought of trying to launder that amount is staggering.  The highest limits on most sites person to person is something like $25,000.  That is not set by the site, just the most that a person will sell.  That means 10 to 12 highly dangerous transactions.  The odds of that going south is beyond thought.  With enough time, a single seller might be found, but time is not on this guys side.  I do not see why he doesn't just own up to the account and let the wolves tear the property and money apart.  I suspect there is that little greed bug in the back of his head that tells him that once it all is over he will end up with some cash or something.  When I was young, no kids, I might have embraced something like that.  He has kids and so do I and that is supposed to mean a different level of legal and social responsibility.  I am amazed when people get squirrely and forge that sometimes communication and honesty is the best course.  

Not many of my friends and family understand Crypto yet and I pretty much had no where else to share this story.  If someone else has a thought on keeping the guy safe, by all means post it.  Do not even bother saying how stupid what he is about to embark on is, because I know and I have told him.  He is just not Harrison Ford in a movie and no one that I know could pull this off without getting caught.  The whole thing brings that guy to mind who laundered the $100,000 on the Silk Road and finally pissed off enough law enforcement that they full on attacked the Silk Road.  Anyway, thanks for the ear.....hope he gets smarter before he gets dumber or at least get so confused by the process that he gives up.

[Zeke2345]

I do not think you will get serious replies as it could potentially come back on some one if things go sideways.

The real problem is connection,he can move the funds to bitcoin but they can still narrow down who was connected to that account.
They will send investigators and dig through his garbage and most likely track some odd spending habits or some friend will say something off the cuff,not realizing what has been said.
Would look into using localbitcoin in Canada if he/you are close to the border and look to hold the money there in a different form for set time. Not suggesting a bank account because we seem to share information quite freely with America.
Any transaction he eventually makes should be done from a throw away tablet/phone and not used to many times,maybe once.
If he has checked the account already from any connection to him he is toast and should just act like the account does not exsist.
Think in some parts its also a crime to knowingly keep using a bank account after someone has deceased,not sure.

I had a friend that joked about robbing a place and 2 years later it got robbed,guess who was the prime suspect even though he did not match the perp? You would be amazed how much people talk behind each others backs and if he is talking to you,he most likely has said something out loud to others.

[AgentofCoin]

...
This all seemed very nice and they were happy to have received these things from a person they only met a few times.  Whatever this person did or did not do resulted in $300,000 in this bank account and some very strange personal belongings.  It is my belief that there was some pretty heavy organized crime associated with it all because on a Federal level and legal level, no one seems to know this bank account exists.  However, everyone knows the property itself exists, including several lien holders and the IRS.  Somehow the deceased used the same property as collateral in several institutional loans and transaction so the property with a value of around $200,000 is leveraged against nearly $1,000,000 in loans and those have come due.  The IRS wants around $30,000 for past taxes and the state wants $15,000 in property taxes.  
...

This doesn't really make sense.
At a "Federal and legal level" they do know about the 300k account.

Whose name is on the account?
Whose SSN is on the account?
Who is the executor of the Estate Will?
Was the 300k account declared in the Will?
How was the 300k "discovered"?
How do you know the 300k is illegal and not leftover funds from loans?

Banks will not give loans on property that already have liens, especially 1million in lien of a property of only 200k.

The story doesn't add up correctly.
It is probable a lot of the information you have is incorrect.

If this person was involved in "Mafia" or etc, it could be likely that the person was under surveillance.
In that case, whatever this "distant relative" does with the illegal money is being observed.

Get a lawyer.

[knowhow]

Well i believe you need a lawyer to handle those all questions,if he thinks he can get the money ,moove it and convert it without no one knows that wont happen,the police if that money came from ilegal stuffs should be waiting those money to be mooved soo you may go to jail on that moment,even trying to hide any detail about it.Just act legal ,search lawyer they will maybe help you or atleast guide you and i believe you will loose a part to them and to the state as well,they will tax that money if not take it all.

[DannyHamilton]

Anyone dumb enough to help you here is simply putting themselves at risk for "aiding and abetting".  As such, you are only likely to get assistance from people that aren't knowledgeable enough to know what they're talking about.  In other words, following any advice you receive here is likely to just make things worse.  For that matter, there's a very good chance that anyone giving you advice here about this is actually a member of law enforcement that is trying to trick you into making it easier for them to track and identify your friend.

Your friend clearly doesn't understand the laws he is dealing with.
Your friend clearly doesn't understand the banking system.
Your friend clearly doesn't understand the public pseudonymous nature of bitcoin.
Your friend clearly has no experience in successfully pulling of such an illegal action.
Your friend clearly doesn't understand the technologies he is dealing with.
Your friend clearly doesn't understand the suspicion and investigation he is likely to trigger.

Given all this lack of knowledge and understanding, it is almost certain that your friend WILL get caught.

Your biggest problem right now is that you have assisted your friend enough that once he is caught, the only way you might be able to avoid charges of "aiding and abetting" against you is if you turn your friend in before he even attempts it.

[odolvlobo]

Here is a an interesting angle. Is your asking you for money to help solve his problems, and promising to pay you back out of the hidden bank account?

[Zeke2345]

Your biggest problem right now is that you have assisted your friend enough that once he is caught, the only way you might be able to avoid charges of "aiding and abetting" against you is if you turn your friend in before he even attempts it.

 
Come on dude,not even close. Not enough evidence to prove any connection,besides he could just say he thought his friend was joking around when they where having a few drinks and talking what if situation. Not enough evidence. But the friend for sure has already messed up because he knows about said bank account,meaning he has checked it in some way at best.

[btvGainer]

Even if he buy Bitcoin from that bank account and later cash out bitcoin to pay the creditors,how is he going to declare his income?Since most of tge creditors are financial institutions,he will have to pay back loan by cheque and any large amount in his bank account will eventually attract law enforcement agencies attention

[AgentofCoin]

Your biggest problem right now is that you have assisted your friend enough that once he is caught, the only way you might be able to avoid charges of "aiding and abetting" against you is if you turn your friend in before he even attempts it.

Come on dude,not even close. Not enough evidence to prove any connection,besides he could just say he thought his friend was joking around when they where having a few drinks and talking what if situation. Not enough evidence. But the friend for sure has already messed up because he knows about said bank account,meaning he has checked it in some way at best.

From a legal point of view, DannyHamilton is correct and that should be taken seriously.
The problem is that the OP wrote the whole story out in this thread, thus implicating himself.

It could be possible the OP's friend is just making up a story for fun or just to make his recent inheritance more mysterious.
(Story sounds like it could be a movie plot featuring Jack Black as your friend and Christopher Walken as the investigator.)



The whole story in general sounds off and I wouldn't be surprised if
the OP's thread is an attempt at a honeytrap of some sort as well.

        

[morantis]

Your biggest problem right now is that you have assisted your friend enough that once he is caught, the only way you might be able to avoid charges of "aiding and abetting" against you is if you turn your friend in before he even attempts it.

Come on dude,not even close. Not enough evidence to prove any connection,besides he could just say he thought his friend was joking around when they where having a few drinks and talking what if situation. Not enough evidence. But the friend for sure has already messed up because he knows about said bank account,meaning he has checked it in some way at best.

From a legal point of view, DannyHamilton is correct and that should be taken seriously.
The problem is that the OP wrote the whole story out in this thread, thus implicating himself.

It could be possible the OP's friend is just making up a story for fun or just to make his recent inheritance more mysterious.
(Story sounds like it could be a movie plot featuring Jack Black as your friend and Christopher Walken as the investigator.)



The whole story in general sounds off and I wouldn't be surprised if
this thread is an attempt at a honeytrap of some sort as well.

         

Sorry, busy day.  I saw what everyone wrote and appreciate it.  The fact is that I am far from worried about myself.  There is simply not enough of anything, even here to put me in harms way.  Maybe some people would crumble under investigation, but I know for a fact that even this posting is far from enough to do anything but make someone uncomfortable in the hopes of a confession.  I go the opposite way of confusion and really I have done nothing wrong.  I made a sideways suggestion and he is stupid to follow through on it.  Plus, even this posting, with an IP from my office, is nowhere near enough to put me in the middle.  "Really, someone posted all of this?  From my IP?  My office?  I cannot begin to imagine how that may have happened.......good luck finding that person, I will help in any way that I can." 

Anyway, no new info here, you guys have pretty much repeated what I already know and my friend should know.  Thanks again, going to lock the thread down as it is going nowhere.