BITBOND update and request for feedback

[amazingrando]

BITBOND ASIC call for feedback

Hello BITBONDers

I am sorry for the limited updates recently.  There have been a number of things going on behind the scenes to figure out a path forward.  With a high degree of confidence I can now share with you a plan for BITBOND.

First, let me apologize deeply for the suspension of payouts.  I had very high hopes of earning good returns for everyone involved and setting the stage for future work in GPGPU computing.  I feel strongly enough about what we were doing to quit a very good job to focus on this full time and worked 12 hour days throughout the summer and fall.  We developed several proprietary technologies to do more with less including 5850’s I had manufactured in China, PCB’s and wiring systems made here in the US, and software to manage and control over 200 netbooted rigs in a custom rack system.  While we tried our best, we simply could not do everything we needed to do in the timeframe we had.  Too much had never been done before by me (sometimes by anyone) and required far more resources than we had.  We desperately tried our best to make BITBOND successful.  I apologize for our failure.

Second, I would like to clear up some confusion.  Whether it’s Avalon ASICs, GLBSE, or BITBOND there is a shocking amount of misinformation, misunderstanding, defamation, and truly bizarre ideas on the forums.  Luckily there are quite a few cool heads, though perhaps not enough to keep the tinfoil hat crowd at bay.  Here is a list of facts to help fill in the gaps.

• BITBOND started in April, 2012 and paid all payouts through the closing of GLBSE on October 5th, 2012.
• BITBOND lost about 230 btc in the GLBSE closing.
• October 5th through block reward halving on November 28, 2012, BITBOND paid out all payouts to the majority bondholders (the “85%”).
• The majority bondholders bought their BITBONDs in May, July, and August and received their bonds via GLBSE like all other bondholders.
• The majority bondholders received the same 2mh/s per bond and 105% PPS.  Everyone has the same bonds/bond terms
• To give added protection to their large investment, the majority bondholders requested detailed contracts signed and notarized.
• Due to the detailed contract terms, I was obliged to mine for them as long as possible, even when losing money
• We had been working on a plan to move to Wenatchee, WA from Tacoma, WA.  This would have cut our power bill in half and given us room to expand considerably.  We learned that the cost of installing power from Douglas County PUD would be $40,000 to $60,000.  We simply could not afford the move.  Consequently, we were limited by the power we have at our current facility.
• Meanwhile the GPUs we had custom manufactured in China had power routing issues (http://imgur.com/a/Jf3ME) that were burning out cards under heavy load.  This required rework from a PCB assembly and rework facility north of Seattle, which spanned almost two months, keeping 600 cards offline
• We had significant delays in manufacturing and producing our custom power supply system (comprised of two PCBs and wiring harnesses assembled by hand) that, combined with card power issues limited our mining output to just under 200Gh/s
• When the block reward halving occurred, BITBOND was producing just under 200Gh/s but paying out about 180Gh/s worth of payments each week.  The surplus was not enough to pay for the $4,000 per month power bills, facility rents, Internet access, or any salaries.
• We had about $3500 in reserves (IIRC) at that time.  Therefore, BITBOND could not continue to operate.  I made the decision to stop payouts to the majority bondholders until ASICs arrived
• I placed order #3431 with BFL for one mini-rig SC last year.  The majority bondholders and I determined that given BFL’s history it was too risky to pay for the order until there was evidence that BFL could produce a working ASIC at the performance levels they advertised.
• In recent discussions with BFL Josh, BFL has decided not to honor our order because it was not paid.  He has given me a timeframe of April or May for an ASIC if paid for today.  I would guess it will be at last June.
• Since block reward halving, most of our current mining revenue has gone towards fixed expenses, with a small amount left over saved for ASIC purchases
• We have explored many avenues of liquidating our GPU equipment to buy coins to pay back bondholders and/or to buy ASICs to resume BITBOND payouts.  We have not yet found a firm that is willing to buy used custom hardware.  Most of our GPUs are old enough and used enough that they are not of interest to buyers (note that we have almost 100% 58xx cards)

The plan going forward

Through several sleepless nights, we have managed to pull together enough funds and to purchase 10 x Avalon ASIC units in batch 2.  This will provide about 660 GH/s.  It is far from the 1.5 TH/s we hoped to have with the BFL mini rig, but the Avalon ASICs have been proven to exist and work.  We should also receive them much sooner than putting in a BFL order now.

I am suggesting creating a new security on Cryptostocks called BITBOND ASIC.  All current BITBOND bonds will be exchanged 1:2 for BITBOND ASIC.  The new bonds will be 2.25 Mh/s each, payable at 100% PPS.  Thus, if you have 10 BITBOND, which provides 20 Mh/s at 105% PPS, through the exchange you will receive 50 Mh/s at 100% PPS.

BITBOND will no longer be perpetual.  Instead it will continue through 2014.

Avalon batch 2 is projected to start shipping March 5th.  If that date were to hold, I would expect to receive the ASICs around March 11th.  We will need a few days to get them into our facility, tested and configured for our environment.  Payouts would begin the following week, on Saturdays as before.

I would appreciate any constructive feedback on this approach.  If there are ways that I can improve the payouts I will try, but I would like to stick to what I feel confident I can commit to at this point.

Again, my deepest apologies.

[1715334362]

1715334362

[1715334362]

1715334362

[1715334362]

1715334362

[camolist]

so

you are not going to pay october - today


"* Free:  2M/s BITBOND converts to 12.5Mh/s BITBOND.ASIC for free"

is now 2:1 (4mh instead of 12.5)


and

BITBOND will no longer be perpetual.  Instead it will continue through 2014.



yet bitcointalk thinks it's fine you are not labeled a scammer.


lets disclose who the 85% are. i think many would be interested in that information

[usagi]

BITBOND ASIC call for feedback

Hello BITBONDers

I am sorry for the limited updates recently.  There have been a number of things going on behind the scenes to figure out a path forward.  With a high degree of confidence I can now share with you a plan for BITBOND.

First, let me apologize deeply for the suspension of payouts.

You paid out your 85% shareholders but left people like me in the cold. I took an incredible amount of heat from the community because people blamed me for investing with people who ended up defaulting. I was accused of being a scammer not least of all because I invested so much money with people like Hashking.

One of the shining jewels of BMF was BTC-MINING. I had 300 shares. I had over 500 at one point. But because of the crap I had to take I couldn't re-list my securities and keep them running. I was given one month to shut down. The community simply would not give me the time I needed to make things right. In an absolute mortal panic, I asked for help and Deprived gave me the suggestion of running an auction. I sold off the 300 BTC-MINING shares, which I paid 300 bitcoins for, recieving a grand total of 15 bitcoins.

At today's prices I lost almost $6,000 dollars. And this is not a business loss. In order to continue doing business in the community I had to assume personal liability for this loss.

While I don't hate you I want you to know that your return is far too late for a great many people, chiefly me I guess. You're also not alone. I had to auction off BitVPS, and we were forced to sell our extensive satoshidice holdings at 0.0037 as well. Literally, if I could just have recovered half the value from BTC-MINING -- even just half -- I would have been relatively okay, personally-financially speaking. If only I had known. If only someone had told me. If only I could have told the community that there was real value in my companies. Maybe I could have kept on trading and I wouldn't have had to sell over $6,000 of my gold and silver and my gibson SG guitar (which I still can't bear to ship, Mr. T. is probably angry at me). Maybe people wouldn't have accused me of losing so much money of investor's funds.

I didn't quote the rest of your message but I read it.

I am sorry to say I won't be able to participate in BITBOND because I lost all my money and all my shares. But i'm happy you were able to purchase 10 Avalon ASICs though. It was on my back but at least your remaining investors, whoever they are, will be happy.

[PsychoticBoy]

This is a MAJOR ripoff!

It could be end 2014 before you will even recieve your Avalon,

AND.................. I WANT MY OUTSTANDING DIVIDENDS NOW!!!!!

Placing ASIC preorders with our money (and dividends) is outrageous.
And now he has the idea to create BITBOND.ASIC which is TOTALLY owned by Investors, because we (the Investor) paid for the new hardware.

This calls for a Scammer and an Asshole Tag!

[Sukrim]

How many BTC are exactly outstanding towards the "minority bondholders" (the 15% that were never paid after October)?

Have "majority bondholders" now pulled out or will they still receive BTC first, before the common folk after you receive ASICs?

Please release salaries etc. from your venture, since on one hand you kinda managed to operate at a loss + buy 10 ASICs but couldn't pay ~1/6th of your share holders.

Who are the majority bondholders, how many of them exist and how much of a share does each of them hold?

Why did you not just buy back bonds rather than stopping payouts (and not really communicating this to bondholders by the way)?

Why will your "new" (worse) contract still be priced and traded in BTC while your expenses are in USD? Instead of a continuous product, we're now betting on how much 50 MH/s will generate within a year and if you are even able to keep that amount of hash power online and running.

[conspirosphere.tk]

So after scamming us up to now, you propose that we forget about our coins due, and look forward to accept another scam where we are supposed to lose 100% of our investment in 1 year.
You should try a political career.

[camolist]

i'm surprised he doesn't try a forced buyback at the cryptostock ask price of .005 btc (amusing enough that someone wanting to sell at that price can't even find a buyer. shows how little people think of this)

i need to start a security at 1btc sell 10,000 shares. announce they are now worthless. then use the contract buyback clause to buy them back for pennies.

that would be fulfilling the contract better then is happening with this listing

[amazingrando]

Let me try to answer the questions.

Camolist
From my spreadsheet you have 112 bonds, which translates to about 3 btc in unpaid payments.  If you have something constructive to add, please do so.  The majority owners are free to release their information if they choose.

usagi
I am terribly sorry about any consequences that suspension of payment has had.  What we hoped would be exceptional returns on our investment has been a loss for many people, myself included (far more than $6,000).  I know it is probably too late, but if there is anything I can do at this point to help (within my abilities) I will do so.

PsychoticBoy
As with Camolist, please let me know if you have anything constructive to add.  If I can provide back payments I will try to do so, but as there isn't a means to do that right now I cannot commit to that. 

The logic of buying Avalons for BITBOND is quite simple.  Having operated BTIBOND at a loss with very little cash left over and no one lining up to buy the hardware, I have had the option of paying back some of the payouts with no prospect of any payments in the future or buy hardware that could be used to provide payouts for the next almost two years.  The latter will result in far more being paid to bondholders as well as a restoration of some of the security's value.

If you have some constructive ideas about how we can liquidate equipment at reasonable price or otherwise gather funds to payback past payments, I am certainly open to hearing it.

Sukrim
There are 13,476 bonds held by minority bondholders.  55% have 10 or fewer bonds

I have been in ongoing discussions with the majority bondholders.  Unless there is some unavoidable legal rationale, they will receive payouts at the same time as any other bondholder.

I don't think I can release detailed financials at this point, but I can provide some general numbers.  Until the recent run-up in btc prices, we were earning about $9,000 a month from mining.  From that our monthly power bill for ~320A of 208v is $4,000.  We have been paying $2130 in rent.  Internet and other expenses is about $350 a month.  We have had no salary per se, but instead been paying the bare minimum (or less) bills of my brother and me.  We both have been working >40 hours/week to keep things running, save what we can, and liquidate surplus equipment.  Thus, in January we had about $2500 in net before paying for any food, housing, or bills for the two of us.  My personal bills for one month exceed that amount.  With the recent rise in bitcoin prices we have been able to finally pay bills and have a bit left over for buying ASICs.  Most of the ASICs money has come from selling hardware we are no longer using.

As I mention above, if the majority shareholders wish to release their information that is up to them.  Two wealthy investors own about 80,000 bonds.  The remainder is owned by a few other investors in their cohort.

You are absolutely right that I should have provided more information, more regularly.  I was reluctant to share information that I could not commit to.  The forums, and bitcoin in general, have a deep history of announcing things that they cannot deliver or later have to change, etc.  Knowing that I wasn't able to keep my commitment with BITBOND I did not want to give any details until I was sure.

I thought many times about buying back bonds.  The problem was the cost to do so.  Having virtually no cash or coins on hand, we could not afford it.  All I could do was keep running mining rigs to pay my fixed expenses and hope to get a small surplus to use to revitalize BITBOND.

Can you please elaborate on this thought about denominating in USD?  The bond was denominated in btc and any back payments are also in btc.  Unfortunately pricing for ASICs and paying for operating costs is all in USD.  As for paying power, the power costs are comparatively minute compared to today.  I will reserve some ASIC capacity to help pay for power, however the power costs should only be about $200 per month.  I am quite confident I can find that much each month.

[Sukrim]

Ok, if your expenses will be that low I guess PPS mining is actually one of the few exceptions where it might make sense to price in BTC. Still Bitcoin could tank in value (giving you an opportunity to buy back bonds *hint, hint*) leaving you suddenly with obligations that might be hard to cover. 200 USD per month in electricity though seems doable for anyone.

I would still be interested if there are actually dividends outstanding for these ~13.5k bonds in your opinion or not.

[camolist]

Camolist
From my spreadsheet you have 112 bonds, which translates to about 3 btc in unpaid payments.  If you have something constructive to add, please do so.  The majority owners are free to release their information if they choose.

that is correct and the number i quote in the scam accusation thread. thanks for confirming it here publically. i'd have to double check the unpaid dividends part though as that's about half of the rough guess i made before

so either pay up the dividends or refund the cost of the shares (around 45 btc i can check the csv for exacts if needed) to myself along with all other "small" investors which make up the 15% you are refusing to pay

or is demanding what is owed not constructive enough for you?

[Namworld]

What about the 2369 BTC that were loaned to you for upgrading your operation, and had a clause that it would be paid back in full?

[MPOE-PR]

Let me try to answer the questions.

Camolist
From my spreadsheet you have 112 bonds, which translates to about 3 btc in unpaid payments.  If you have something constructive to add, please do so.  The majority owners are free to release their information if they choose.

usagi
I am terribly sorry about any consequences that suspension of payment has had.  What we hoped would be exceptional returns on our investment has been a loss for many people, myself included (far more than $6,000).  I know it is probably too late, but if there is anything I can do at this point to help (within my abilities) I will do so.

PsychoticBoy
As with Camolist, please let me know if you have anything constructive to add.  If I can provide back payments I will try to do so, but as there isn't a means to do that right now I cannot commit to that. 

The logic of buying Avalons for BITBOND is quite simple.  Having operated BTIBOND at a loss with very little cash left over and no one lining up to buy the hardware, I have had the option of paying back some of the payouts with no prospect of any payments in the future or buy hardware that could be used to provide payouts for the next almost two years.  The latter will result in far more being paid to bondholders as well as a restoration of some of the security's value.

If you have some constructive ideas about how we can liquidate equipment at reasonable price or otherwise gather funds to payback past payments, I am certainly open to hearing it.

Sukrim
There are 13,476 bonds held by minority bondholders.  55% have 10 or fewer bonds

I have been in ongoing discussions with the majority bondholders.  Unless there is some unavoidable legal rationale, they will receive payouts at the same time as any other bondholder.

I don't think I can release detailed financials at this point, but I can provide some general numbers.  Until the recent run-up in btc prices, we were earning about $9,000 a month from mining.  From that our monthly power bill for ~320A of 208v is $4,000.  We have been paying $2130 in rent.  Internet and other expenses is about $350 a month.  We have had no salary per se, but instead been paying the bare minimum (or less) bills of my brother and me.  We both have been working >40 hours/week to keep things running, save what we can, and liquidate surplus equipment.  Thus, in January we had about $2500 in net before paying for any food, housing, or bills for the two of us.  My personal bills for one month exceed that amount.  With the recent rise in bitcoin prices we have been able to finally pay bills and have a bit left over for buying ASICs.  Most of the ASICs money has come from selling hardware we are no longer using.

As I mention above, if the majority shareholders wish to release their information that is up to them.  Two wealthy investors own about 80,000 bonds.  The remainder is owned by a few other investors in their cohort.

You are absolutely right that I should have provided more information, more regularly.  I was reluctant to share information that I could not commit to.  The forums, and bitcoin in general, have a deep history of announcing things that they cannot deliver or later have to change, etc.  Knowing that I wasn't able to keep my commitment with BITBOND I did not want to give any details until I was sure.

I thought many times about buying back bonds.  The problem was the cost to do so.  Having virtually no cash or coins on hand, we could not afford it.  All I could do was keep running mining rigs to pay my fixed expenses and hope to get a small surplus to use to revitalize BITBOND.

Can you please elaborate on this thought about denominating in USD?  The bond was denominated in btc and any back payments are also in btc.  Unfortunately pricing for ASICs and paying for operating costs is all in USD.  As for paying power, the power costs are comparatively minute compared to today.  I will reserve some ASIC capacity to help pay for power, however the power costs should only be about $200 per month.  I am quite confident I can find that much each month.

Better late than never. Next time don't wait around for me to start pushing the point.

[Bitinvestor]

Placing ASIC preorders with our money (and dividends) is outrageous.
And now he has the idea to create BITBOND.ASIC which is TOTALLY owned by Investors, because we (the Investor) paid for the new hardware.

This. You should have paid our dividends first before even thinking about ASICs. The scam continues...

[amazingrando]

Placing ASIC preorders with our money (and dividends) is outrageous.
And now he has the idea to create BITBOND.ASIC which is TOTALLY owned by Investors, because we (the Investor) paid for the new hardware.

This. You should have paid our dividends first before even thinking about ASICs. The scam continues...

I explained the logic and believe the math is sound.  Buying ASICs will produce the highest return for bondholders over the remainder of the bond term.

However, as I am soliciting feedback on the plan forward, let me ask a question.  There are simply not enough money to repay the back payments plus future payments.  In fact there is not enough for all back payments, but it is close.   Through Feb 2, 2012 total back payments to the minority bondholders is 772.79 btc.  At $20.14 that is $15,563.99.  Would you, the minority shareholders, rather have the back payments and no future payments - essentially be bought out for the price of your back payments, or have the mining income I have outlined through 2014?  I know that there are people who wanted an Avalon ASIC in batch 2 and would be willing to buy my orders.

[conspirosphere.tk]

I think until we are supposed to get back most of our investment in a reasonable timeframe we might reach an agreement.
So when do you expect to get the ASICs and start paying dividends?

[PsychoticBoy]

Placing ASIC preorders with our money (and dividends) is outrageous.
And now he has the idea to create BITBOND.ASIC which is TOTALLY owned by Investors, because we (the Investor) paid for the new hardware.

This. You should have paid our dividends first before even thinking about ASICs. The scam continues...

I explained the logic and believe the math is sound.  Buying ASICs will produce the highest return for bondholders over the remainder of the bond term.

However, as I am soliciting feedback on the plan forward, let me ask a question.  There are simply not enough money to repay the back payments plus future payments.  In fact there is not enough for all back payments, but it is close.   Through Feb 2, 2012 total back payments to the minority bondholders is 772.79 btc.  At $20.14 that is $15,563.99.  Would you, the minority shareholders, rather have the back payments and no future payments - essentially be bought out for the price of your back payments, or have the mining income I have outlined through 2014?  I know that there are people who wanted an Avalon ASIC in batch 2 and would be willing to buy my orders.

You violated the original contract by not paying the Investors their rightfull belongings, the outstanding dividends and thus you are a Scammer.

Don`t come up with  "I bought ASICs, you will thank me later" Bullshit.

Pay your debt!

[amazingrando]

I think until we are supposed to get back most of our investment in a reasonable timeframe we might reach an agreement.
So when do you expect to get the ASICs and start paying dividends?

Shipments for batch 2 are supposed to start March 5th.  If our orders shipped then, it would take about 5-7 business days to get here.  I'm guessing during the week of the 11th.  If that's the case, the first payout would at the end of the following week, assuming everything works as expected.

[conspirosphere.tk]

I think until we are supposed to get back most of our investment in a reasonable timeframe we might reach an agreement.
So when do you expect to get the ASICs and start paying dividends?

Shipments for batch 2 are supposed to start March 5th.  If our orders shipped then, it would take about 5-7 business days to get here.  I'm guessing during the week of the 11th.  If that's the case, the first payout would at the end of the following week, assuming everything works as expected.

OK. As a sign of goodwill from my part I'm now going to take down http://amazingrand0.blogspot.com until April 15th (forever if you perform. If you don't it will be back with a vengeance.)

About the expected end of the bond, I would like to add a clause that it won't end before all investors recover 100% of their investment.

[Monster Tent]

If you cant make a profit with GPU mining what makes you think ASIC mining will be any different ? For the dickheads who dont get it, mining profitability will end up the same whether you have 160gh of GPU or 3tb of ASIC. The market should avoid mining companies like the plague because its now proven that large scale mining is just as barely profitable as small scale.

Unless you have all of the below -

1. Rent Free
2. Minimal Elecricity Cost

You will NEVER get your initial investment back, let alone make any profit. Show me one public listed mining company where this has happened.

You get a better return blowing your coins on satoshidice.

[conspirosphere.tk]

For the dickheads who dont get it

Thanx, but now is a bit late for such considerations. We are now trying to minimize damages for everyone.

[Bitinvestor]

You get a better return blowing your coins on satoshidice.

GREAT IDEA!!!!

Sell those stupid ASICs and give me my money! I'm gonna be rich!

[Monster Tent]

You get a better return blowing your coins on satoshidice.

GREAT IDEA!!!!

Sell those stupid ASICs and give me my money! I'm gonna be rich!

I predict the same outcome with ASIC mining in a few months time.

[camolist]

I explained the logic and believe the math is sound.  Buying ASICs will produce the highest return for bondholders over the remainder of the bond term.

However, as I am soliciting feedback on the plan forward, let me ask a question.  There are simply not enough money to repay the back payments plus future payments.  In fact there is not enough for all back payments, but it is close.   Through Feb 2, 2012 total back payments to the minority bondholders is 772.79 btc.  At $20.14 that is $15,563.99.  Would you, the minority shareholders, rather have the back payments and no future payments - essentially be bought out for the price of your back payments, or have the mining income I have outlined through 2014?  I know that there are people who wanted an Avalon ASIC in batch 2 and would be willing to buy my orders.

$15,563.99

ok so get a job. pay what is owed and buy the needed hardware to guarantee the continued serving of what is owed (2mh / upgrade to 12.5 mh)



to the other poster. yeah we get it mining bonds were a bad idea. the worse idea was trusting members of the community. can't even collect what is owed on a losing investment because the person running it ran

[Namworld]

What about the 2369 BTC that were loaned to you for upgrading your operation, and had a clause that it would be paid back in full?

You have not answered and I'm still waiting for you to accept me on skype as you requested.

Regards.

[camolist]

$15,563.99

ok so get a job. pay what is owed and buy the needed hardware to guarantee the continued serving of what is owed (2mh / upgrade to 12.5 mh)



to the other poster. yeah we get it mining bonds were a bad idea. the worse idea was trusting members of the community. can't even collect what is owed on a losing investment because the person running it ran

we already paid for lifetime hardware of 2mh/upgrade to 12.5mh asic

why our dividends need to go to further hardware that maybe might pay part of what we are owed (and half of the posted asic upgrade) does not add up

what you need to do to deliver makes no difference. if you have to go work at McDonald's and live in a box in their parking lot that is not our problem


deliver

[Deprived]

If you cant make a profit with GPU mining what makes you think ASIC mining will be any different ? For the dickheads who dont get it, mining profitability will end up the same whether you have 160gh of GPU or 3tb of ASIC. The market should avoid mining companies like the plague because its now proven that large scale mining is just as barely profitable as small scale.

Unless you have all of the below -

1. Rent Free
2. Minimal Elecricity Cost

You will NEVER get your initial investment back, let alone make any profit. Show me one public listed mining company where this has happened.

You get a better return blowing your coins on satoshidice.

Most of them will never understand it.

The simple truth with mining is that all the time it's profitable more people will keep buying mining gear - until it's no longer profitable (unless you have lower than average overheads).

Take something marginally profitable (mining) then take a hefty cut from turnover (NOT PROFIT) for an operator and what's left for investors?  If you said "a loss" - well done, that's the right answer.  There WILL be a short period during which ASIC mining is very profitable - after that it'll be back to mining investments making a loss as usual : with those whose pre-orders were stuck in USD whilst BTC rose starting off with having lost 1/3 or more of their asset value before their hardware even arrived.  The very profitable period could be over as soon as March - depending on BTC price and which ASIC manufacturers screw up (and just how badly).

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Scammer tag time.

Btw, BTC-MINING.

[Bitinvestor]

Through several sleepless nights, we have managed to pull together enough funds and to purchase 10 x Avalon ASIC units in batch 2.  This will provide about 660 GH/s.  It is far from the 1.5 TH/s we hoped to have with the BFL mini rig, but the Avalon ASICs have been proven to exist and work.  We should also receive them much sooner than putting in a BFL order now.

I am suggesting creating a new security on Cryptostocks called BITBOND ASIC.  All current BITBOND bonds will be exchanged 1:2 for BITBOND ASIC.  The new bonds will be 2.25 Mh/s each, payable at 100% PPS.  Thus, if you have 10 BITBOND, which provides 20 Mh/s at 105% PPS, through the exchange you will receive 50 Mh/s at 100% PPS.

BITBOND will no longer be perpetual.  Instead it will continue through 2014.

Your math is wrong:

666 GH/s = 666,000 MH/s
666,000 MH/s / 15,000 BITBONDs that haven't been paid = 44.4 MH/s per BITBOND that has not been paid.

The ASICs belong to the little guys because WE PAID FOR THEM!

[Monster Tent]

Through several sleepless nights, we have managed to pull together enough funds and to purchase 10 x Avalon ASIC units in batch 2.  This will provide about 660 GH/s.  It is far from the 1.5 TH/s we hoped to have with the BFL mini rig, but the Avalon ASICs have been proven to exist and work.  We should also receive them much sooner than putting in a BFL order now.

I am suggesting creating a new security on Cryptostocks called BITBOND ASIC.  All current BITBOND bonds will be exchanged 1:2 for BITBOND ASIC.  The new bonds will be 2.25 Mh/s each, payable at 100% PPS.  Thus, if you have 10 BITBOND, which provides 20 Mh/s at 105% PPS, through the exchange you will receive 50 Mh/s at 100% PPS.

BITBOND will no longer be perpetual.  Instead it will continue through 2014.

Your math is wrong:

666 GH/s = 666,000 MH/s
666,000 MH/s / 15,000 BITBONDs that haven't been paid = 44.4 MH/s per BITBOND that has not been paid.

The ASICs belong to the little guys because WE PAID FOR THEM!

Since the 15% paid for the ASIC it seems fair they get all the dividend. If the 85% get a free ride thats fucking sad.

[camolist]

message sent to theymos with links to this thread along with the two in the scams subforum

if he somehow has not seen all this going on till this point he will now.


if the scam tag is not given it will show what is really going on here

[camolist]

Through several sleepless nights, we have managed to pull together enough funds and to purchase 10 x Avalon ASIC units in batch 2.  This will provide about 660 GH/s.  It is far from the 1.5 TH/s we hoped to have with the BFL mini rig, but the Avalon ASICs have been proven to exist and work.  We should also receive them much sooner than putting in a BFL order now.

I am suggesting creating a new security on Cryptostocks called BITBOND ASIC.  All current BITBOND bonds will be exchanged 1:2 for BITBOND ASIC.  The new bonds will be 2.25 Mh/s each, payable at 100% PPS.  Thus, if you have 10 BITBOND, which provides 20 Mh/s at 105% PPS, through the exchange you will receive 50 Mh/s at 100% PPS.

BITBOND will no longer be perpetual.  Instead it will continue through 2014.

Your math is wrong:

666 GH/s = 666,000 MH/s
666,000 MH/s / 15,000 BITBONDs that haven't been paid = 44.4 MH/s per BITBOND that has not been paid.

The ASICs belong to the little guys because WE PAID FOR THEM!

didn't you know he needs 90% of the hashrate to pay electricity? and that the 90% of the hashrate won't be able to pay electric past 2014

[Namworld]

Currently at 150000 mhash/s he should be getting about 15566.278945 USD per month without electricity.

He claims 4k USD per month for upkeep/rent/etc.

What that mean is he can currently pay about 100 000 mhash/s while still paying all expenses. Half what he has to pay.

[pazor]

ok, i got now the official answer, that my 5 bitbond bonds (about 2,2btc) are lost

shit happens

[camolist]

ok, i got now the official answer, that my 5 bitbond bonds (about 2,2btc) are lost

shit happens

not lost. the buy order on cryptostocks would at least cover your 5 shares

theres a bid for 20 shares at  0.0010    

[MPOE-PR]

If you cant make a profit with GPU mining what makes you think ASIC mining will be any different ? For the dickheads who dont get it, mining profitability will end up the same whether you have 160gh of GPU or 3tb of ASIC. The market should avoid mining companies like the plague because its now proven that large scale mining is just as barely profitable as small scale.

Unless you have all of the below -

1. Rent Free
2. Minimal Elecricity Cost

You will NEVER get your initial investment back, let alone make any profit. Show me one public listed mining company where this has happened.

You get a better return blowing your coins on satoshidice.

This Buffett quote covers it nicely:

The domestic textile industry operates in a commodity business, competing in a world market in which substantial excess capacity exists. Much of the trouble we experienced was attributable, both directly and indirectly, to competition from foreign countries whose workers are paid a small fraction of the U.S. minimum wage. But that in no way means that our labor force deserves any blame for our closing. In fact, in comparison with employees of American industry generally, our workers were poorly paid, as has been the case throughout the textile business. In contract negotiations, union leaders and members were sensitive to our disadvantageous cost position and did not push for unrealistic wage increases or unproductive work practices. To the contrary, they tried just as hard as we did to keep us competitive. Even during our liquidation period they performed superbly. (Ironically, we would have been better off financially if our union had behaved unreasonably some years ago; we then would have recognized the impossible future that we faced, promptly closed down, and avoided significant future losses.)

Over the years, we had the option of making large capital expenditures in the textile operation that would have allowed us to somewhat reduce variable costs. Each proposal to do so looked like an immediate winner. Measured by standard return-on-investment tests, in fact, these proposals usually promised greater economic benefits than would have resulted from comparable expenditures in our highly-profitable candy and newspaper businesses.

But the promised benefits from these textile investments were illusory. Many of our competitors, both domestic and foreign, were stepping up to the same kind of expenditures and, once enough companies did so, their reduced costs became the baseline for reduced prices industrywide. Viewed individually, each company's capital investment decision appeared cost-effective and rational; viewed collectively, the decisions neutralized each other and were irrational (just as happens when each person watching a parade decides he can see a little better if he stands on tiptoes).

After each round of investment, all the players had more money in the game and returns remained anemic. Thus, we faced a miserable choice: huge capital investment would have helped to keep our textile business alive, but would have left us with terrible returns on ever-growing amounts of capital. After the investment, moreover, the foreign competition would still have retained a major, continuing advantage in labor costs. A refusal to invest, however, would make us increasingly non-competitive, even measured against domestic textile manufacturers. I always thought myself in the position described by Woody Allen in one of his movies: "More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness, the other to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly."

For an understanding of how the to-invest-or-not-to-invest dilemma plays out in a commodity business, it is instructive to look at Burlington Industries, by far the largest U.S. textile company both 21 years ago and now. In 1964 Burlington had sales of $1.2 billion against our $50 million. It had strengths in both distribution and production that we could never hope to match and also, of course, had an earnings record far superior to ours. Its stock sold at 60 at the end of 1964; ours was 13. Burlington made a decision to stick to the textile business, and in 1985 had sales of about $2.8 billion. During the 1964-85 period, the company made capital expenditures of about $3 billion, far more than any other U.S. textile company and more than $200-per-share on that $60 stock. A very large part of the expenditures, I am sure, was devoted to cost improvement and expansion. Given Burlington's basic commitment to stay in textiles, I would also surmise that the company's capital decisions were quite rational.

Nevertheless, Burlington has lost sales volume in real dollars and has far lower returns on sales and equity now than 20 years ago. Split 2-for-1 in 1965, the stock now sells at 34-on an adjusted basis, just a little over its $60 price in 1964. Meanwhile, the CPI has more than tripled. Therefore, each share commands about one-third the purchasing power it did at the end of 1964. Regular dividends have been paid but they, too, have shrunk significantly in purchasing power.

This devastating outcome for the shareholders indicates what can happen when much brain power and energy are applied to a faulty premise. The situation is suggestive of Samuel Johnson's horse: "A horse that can count to ten is a remarkable horse-not a remarkable mathematician." Likewise, a textile company that allocates capital brilliantly within its industry is a remarkable textile company-but not a remarkable business.

My conclusion from my own experiences and from much observation of other businesses is that a good managerial record (measured by economic returns) is far more a function of what business boat you get into than it is of how effectively you row (though intelligence and effort help considerably, of course, in any business, good or bad). Some years ago I wrote: "When a management with a reputation for brilliance tackles a business with a reputation for poor fundamental economics, it is the reputation of the business that remains intact." Nothing has since changed my point of view on that matter. Should you find yourself in a chronicallyleaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks.

Emphasis mine. The problem with you people, both wannabe investors and wannabe businessmen is that you have no experience whatsoever, no business training to speak of, in fact you're like Kramer. And to top it all off, you cnat raed and wouldn't know what to read if you could read in the first place.

Such is life in this weird space.

[001sonkit]

ok, i got now the official answer, that my 5 bitbond bonds (about 2,2btc) are lost

shit happens

6 here.....

Little guys own the ASIC. Else pay the dividend!

[Deprived]

Emphasis mine. The problem with you people, both wannabe investors and wannabe businessmen is that you have no experience whatsoever, no business training to speak of, in fact you're like Kramer. And to top it all off, you cnat raed and wouldn't know what to read if you could read in the first place.

Such is life in this weird space.

Yeah - that emboldened part is 100% applicable to mining.  In fact the situation is even worse in mining - as the barrier to entry for new miners/mining companies is very low.  And the fact that investors will happily let mining companies start where the manager is paid regardless of whether profit is made adds to the problem - as it means there's incentive for people to run mining companies even if they've noticed/calculated/guessed that no profit will be made on the venture as whole (their personal profit is, of course, assured).

The very last paragraph of your quote was also very relevant.  There's some otherwise fairly smart people running mining companies well - the comapnies still, of course, make a loss.  You'd think someone smart enough to run a business well would pick a profitable area to run one in.

[amazingrando]

Thank you for those of you who provided constructive feedback.  I was hoping for a calm discussion of how we can get BITBOND back on its feet and ensure that bondholders are receiving payouts.  Unfortunately a majority of the posts were not helpful - a combination of rants, demands, threats.  Despite this, I continue to be committed to providing options for bondholders to receive payouts.

I will contact current BITBOND bondholders directly via email with procedures for upgrading, payback/buyback options and related timelines.