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Author Topic: BTCFPGA/bitcoinASIC/CAN-ELECTRIC - no BTC refunds expected, what now?  (Read 5121 times)
puck2
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February 05, 2013, 06:33:39 PM
 #1

The bASIC Refund Tracking Thread is essentially defunct, since it is becoming clear that there is nothing now to track.

I propose that we use this thread (or perhaps another suggested venue as it has been suggested and seems somewhat evident that Bitcointalk.org is particularly amenable to enabling - if not downright abetting - this particular type of long scam) to discuss next steps for those of us who have been left high and dry.

Information needed:

  • Real and present information regarding those responsible for the creation, maintenance, and promulgation of the bASIC/bitcoinASIC/CAN-ELECTRIC scam for the purposes of investigating alternate avenues for pursuing justice (ie, class action). This research could include, but is not limited to, the discovery of which if any of the mentioned LLCs really exist[ed], under what names they are listed, etc.
  • Investigation into the various business entities (or lack thereof) involved in the bASIC/bitcoinASIC extravaganza from day 1 to present. Those who have received CC refunds could assist by providing whatever detail and documentation was included with these charges on their statements.
  • Assembling a mutually agreed upon timeline via collation and collaboration of forum archive, bitcointalk posts, web snapshots, etc. This will trace the promised/expected/GAURANTEED ship dates, etc. for the purposes of establishing intent to defraud. Perhaps a wiki could serve this purpose?
  • A current and accurate report on the status of investigating the suitability of a SCAMMER tag for those involved with this elaborate (and/or hairbrained and mismanaged) scheme.
  • Any other pertinent discussion that brings us beyond the "When are we getting our refund?" "What's up with CAN-ELECTRIC?" headspin.

edit March 1, 2013. I received a refund on Feb 23, 2013 for the full USD amount of my order (via BTC) and am no longer seeking redress nor am I tracking the BTCFPGA refund situation. Good luck to all, including Tom.
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johnyj
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February 05, 2013, 07:02:57 PM
 #2

I did receive the CC refund from bASIC, so their business ethics are not totally negative (maybe partly due to the protection from the CC system). Paying in BTC is risky for consumer, you should be aware of this when you consider a risky investment

Have you requested a USD refund at purchasing price instead?

puck2
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February 05, 2013, 07:06:12 PM
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Have you requested a USD refund at purchasing price instead?

That would be nice. And how do you propose doing that?
oceans
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February 05, 2013, 07:19:57 PM
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Have you requested a USD refund at purchasing price instead?

That would be nice. And how do you propose doing that?

I don't think johnyj got it by now, but we've been waiting for the BTC equivalent in US dollar, we hadn't expected more or less than the US price we've paid via BTC. Nothing received for more than 1 month, therefore this is a confirmed scam. Maybe Tom will get away with it or not, we'll find out in few weeks/months. Personally I hope karma will work its magic.
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February 05, 2013, 07:25:12 PM
 #5

You should contact them, I never communicated with anyone from bASIC, but I heard that Dave is more willing to help

puck2
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February 05, 2013, 07:33:56 PM
 #6

Quote
https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1048.0

EVERY SINGLE CUSTOMER WILL BE REFUNDED. PERIOD.

I have the list of BTC Refunds and should be making those today.
All other CC orders will automatically be refunded today.

I hope you can please accept my deep apologies, I thought I could pull this off but it was just too much of an undertaking for me, I feel ashamed and embarrassed and I am so sorry that I could not come through for you. Everyone will receive their refunds. As a matter of fact I am starting on them now...

...your refund will come automatically and theres no reason for communication.

No one has received BTC refunds since Jan 23rd. PERIOD.

I have opened a complaint at the NYS Division of Consumer Protection.

I look forward to further activity in this thread detailing other methods of open-source and officially-sanctioned justice (for that is what we seek at this point).

If we can't round up some BTC refunds for those of us who are owed them, then at least we can achieve justice for BTC customers of BTCFPGA/bitcoinASIC as well as community protection from individuals and entities who seem capable and willing to swindle from the Bitcoin community.
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February 05, 2013, 07:46:47 PM
 #7

This is one of the main properties of BTC, you never have the possibility to do a charge back. This greatly benefit business owners but not consumers

It means, as a consumer, you should always consider the risk involved when you pay BTC, but since business owners are all registered entities, this should get solved eventually. Wish you good luck then

Grix
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February 05, 2013, 07:50:38 PM
 #8

Still waiting for $530 in BTC or USD here. I have however received CC refunds. I want to press charges, but it would probably get nowhere, I don't live in the US and I suspect it's too small of an amount for the police to care.

Some personal info on tom, taken from his google plus: https://plus.google.com/u/0/100481502635276052436/posts

Quote
Thomas Van Riper

Employment

    BTCFPGA
    Owner, 1200 - present
    CNY SensiblePC
    Network Administrator, 2003 - 2006
    MANOWAR / Ragnar Productions
    Network Administrator, 2000 - 2003
    Dreamscape Online LLC
    Jr. Network Admin, 1999 - 2000
    A-Znet.com
    Support Technician, 1997 - 1999

Education

    Grand Canyon University
    B.S. Computer Information Systems, 2008 - 2011
    Cayuga County Community College
    A.A.S. Computer Information Systems, 2006 - 2008

Photos:
http://imgur.com/a/7fmG0




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puck2
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February 05, 2013, 07:59:00 PM
 #9

I want to press charges, but it would probably get nowhere, I don't live in the US and I suspect it's too small of an amount for the police to care.

It is not really about pressing charges, as establishing wrongdoing and achieving justice through either compensatory means or (at the very least) creation of official record of unscrupulous business practices via civil action. This is a form of community protection, and better than just walking away and saying "oh well."

By enumerating and documenting this swindle, we can

  • potentially achieve some justice through remuneration or punishment
  • protect the community at large from future activity of those involved
JoelKatz
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February 05, 2013, 07:59:46 PM
 #10

This is one of the main properties of BTC, you never have the possibility to do a charge back. This greatly benefit business owners but not consumers

It means, as a consumer, you should always consider the risk involved when you pay BTC, but since business owners are all registered entities, this should get solved eventually. Wish you good luck then
It actually terrible for business owners. It's very hard for a legitimate business to get a consumer to give them money if the consumer is legitimately worried that the business will collapse while holding their money or just run away with their money.

I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz
1Joe1Katzci1rFcsr9HH7SLuHVnDy2aihZ BM-NBM3FRExVJSJJamV9ccgyWvQfratUHgN
c_k
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February 05, 2013, 08:10:47 PM
 #11

Might be an idea to put things in perspective: How many people are actually still waiting for refunds?

I'm not sure there is more than a handful.

puck2
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February 05, 2013, 08:22:39 PM
 #12

Might be an idea to put things in perspective: How many people are actually still waiting for refunds?

Per The bASIC Refund Tracking Thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137876.0 I count 22 waiting for refunds (including me, not yet on list) with a total USD equivalent reported as not yet refunded of $34499.66. Five Bitcoin orders did not enumerate what was ordered, and there may be many, like myself, who (until today) did not choose to disclose this information (with a vague and hopeless idea that it might anger Tom/cablepair and inhibit my refund...) In any/either case, it can be expected that the total number of people and dollar amount still waiting for refunds from Tom/cablepair/BTCFPGA/bitcoinASIC/CAN-ELECTRIC is a good deal higher...

I propose that ALL of us waiting for refunds come out of the woodwork and report as accurately as we feel comfortable at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137876.0.

miter_myles
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February 05, 2013, 08:24:57 PM
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Dave could actually provide the number of people waiting per his master list he sent to Tommy.. could also provide how many orders (probably multiple orders for some people) and estimated dollar figure...

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oceans
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February 05, 2013, 08:30:46 PM
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Only Dave can confirm how many were there in the final BTC list he sent to Tom, but I figure somewhere from 150 to 250 customers. There were only a few that requested refunds before January and they all received it. From then on only CC's refunds were sent and all BTC orders are now declared stolen, I presume more than 500K in US dollars at least. I might be wrong, I wish Dave would be more forthcoming about it and take this more seriously, provide us with some facts.
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February 05, 2013, 08:44:51 PM
 #15

Waiting for refound, its more than a handful of people.

Altho I only ordered 1 just in case of this scenario happening and would order more when/if the actual product would get released.
So this doesnt hurt me financially, but i wont forget about it for sure and if somebody is going to press charges or whatever count me in.

Its hilarious, everybody wants to be a big boy and is behaving like one (bigmouth blabla etc..) and when they fail they run like chickens.
Tom (and every other ASIC vendor) should be responsible for his actions and have scenarios made in advance what will happen if business plan fails and then decide if he is really gonna try to be that big boy. So when he fails i expect him to sell his house his car and his everything to refound customers, because its not my fault he was unable to see the risks involved in that venture and i dont feel its on me to take and pay them instead of him.
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February 05, 2013, 09:03:02 PM
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Dave could actually provide the number of people waiting per his master list he sent to Tommy.. could also provide how many orders (probably multiple orders for some people) and estimated dollar figure...

agreed. Dave needs to contribute whatever he has...
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February 05, 2013, 11:48:45 PM
 #17

This is one of the main properties of BTC, you never have the possibility to do a charge back. This greatly benefit business owners but not consumers

It means, as a consumer, you should always consider the risk involved when you pay BTC, but since business owners are all registered entities, this should get solved eventually. Wish you good luck then
It actually terrible for business owners. It's very hard for a legitimate business to get a consumer to give them money if the consumer is legitimately worried that the business will collapse while holding their money or just run away with their money.


A registered business can not disappear so easily, but a customer could do a charge back and disappear quickly and business owner just have no extra resource to find him

It is indeed difficult for business owners to collect payment in BTC's form, unless it is a small amount or through third party escrow service. Due to BTCs are difficult to get, this will get more difficult each day, finally anyone can afford to pay BTC are miners

I would say, if a customer would like to pay BTC, he's a gold customer. He deserved to have a top credit rating

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February 06, 2013, 03:26:59 AM
 #18

I've emailed the contact email from the FPGA website, and Dave, to be included in a refund. Neither have responded to my email.
So, if anyone wants to take legal action, which I think is justified, then let's do something.

I've seen this kind of burn before more than once. It sometimes takes a while, but the law manages to come through....  the law seizes assets and resulting funds are redistributed to victims.
Tom's mess seems to fits the same profile considering all the refunds being withheld.

||bit
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February 06, 2013, 05:51:32 AM
 #19

The story about CAN-Electric is fake, I emailed them directly and here their reply :

Hi Dear

this is fraud and we as can Electric have nothing to do with this website and their product
and we don't know who is doing this fraud

regards
Ari

Crypto-trade.com : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149458.0
https://koddos.com and http://kovpslayer.com.  "Bitcointalkdiscount" to get 10% discount recurring.
puck2
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February 06, 2013, 07:35:35 PM
 #20

The story about CAN-Electric is fake, I emailed them directly and here their reply :

Hi Dear

this is fraud and we as can Electric have nothing to do with this website and their product
and we don't know who is doing this fraud

regards
Ari


So Can-Electric is a fake. Where are we in getting the SCAMMER tag for cablepair? Setting up yet another fake website to draw in a few more BTC for preorders of non-existent, never-to-exist mining products, all the while blowing off a whole slew of people who placed pre-orders... what is this but another scam? And how does this reflect on prior actions? Were all of those real and just this a blatant scam/fraud? Or is this just another in a long line?

Can ANYONE who has received BTC refunds from Tom/BTCFPGA post the FROM wallet address so that related wallets can be investigated?

...EVERY SINGLE CUSTOMER WILL BE REFUNDED. PERIOD... seems clear to me.
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