Amazon.com shopping with my CC and your BC

[subi]

New here, and there's a couple things I'm looking for:

• Increasing my reputation (WoT)
• Increasing my BitCoins

Curious if anyone's interested in shopping Amazon using their BitCoin? Basically I'd buy the item you're interested in with my credit card, and you would send me the equivalent BitCoin value. This can be done by a full Amazon order shipped to your address, or more privately using the Amazon Wish List, or simply an Amazon gift card.

Happy to read any thoughts/feedback that the more experience members of the community may share on this idea. Thanks!

(have created a WoT account http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=subi)

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[smracer]

How would anyone know if you are using a stolen credit card?

All you would have to do is use a stolen card and ship something to my address.  Then it looks like I stole a Credit Card and bought something from Amazon.

You get Bitcoins and are completely untraceable.

[Herodes]

How would anyone know if you are using a stolen credit card?

All you would have to do is use a stolen card and ship something to my address.  Then it looks like I stole a Credit Card and bought something from Amazon.

You get Bitcoins and are completely untraceable.

+1

[subi]

How would anyone know if you are using a stolen credit card?

All you would have to do is use a stolen card and ship something to my address.  Then it looks like I stole a Credit Card and bought something from Amazon.

You get Bitcoins and are completely untraceable.

Good question. Worst case scenario time. Let's pretend the credit card is stolen. If I bought something for you with it, it would be me and my address/account linked to the purchase and not yours as you are not actually placing an order. As I typed this out, I realized this isn't a very satisfactory answer, so I went a step further and actually called Amazon to speak with customer support.

I spoke with three different representatives in different departments. There was some confusion over why I was asking such questions, and I'm sure by now my account is probably flagged Specifically my question for them involved using the Amazon Wish List, and a buyer that is using a stolen credit card. I asked what happens to the recipient in this situation? At this point I had to provide a bunch of examples to help the representative understand the situation... such as many people have their Amazon Wish List available to the public on the internet, allowing anyone to purchase an item from their wish list even if they don't know the person. A side note here; the Wish List allows some privacy to the recipient in that the buyer only discovers the name, and city of the recipient -- not their full address.

Here's Amazon's answer:
-in most cases the order is stopped before the item gets shipped out and failing that;
-nothing happens to the recipient account
-the buyer's account gets locked and an investigation begins
-the recipient may receive a notification from Amazon that the order was placed with a stolen credit card
-the recipient may be asked to return the item, although legally this is not required


----
Thanks for asking as many people would likely wonder the same thing. Does this help answer your concern? What other questions/concerns are there?

(edit - added "Worst case scenario time.")

[Herodes]

Sorry for being cynical, but what we have here are your words for what took place. If those are legit responses from customer service, what they say, and how things turn out will not always be the same.

Another question alltogheter is why do you want to receive bitcoins in return for you using your credit card purchasing stuff on amazon ?

Also, are you willing to use escrow for the transaction ? To be on the safe side, the buyer should probably have the coins in escrow for 30 days before they're released to you, to be on a reasonable safe side.

Other things that does not work in your favor is that you're completely new to this forum, with no rep, people will ask very hard questions when you start to talk about CC's. In fact, many will just assume you're a scammer. So to build up reps, it could be better to do other things than dealing with easily reversible payment methods.

If you still decide to go ahead with this, I'm sure that the vigilant buyer can ask a bunch of questions to be reasonably sure there's no scamming going on.

The history of scamming in the bitcoin community, esp. from beginners, are just too severe to be neglected.

[subi]

No need to apologize, I am definitely new to the forum and your questions are valid. In fact, quiet the opposite as I apprecaite your time. That's why I was seeking some feedback here; I need to understand how to satisfy the concerns that people may have... and there's likely things I haven't thought about.

To answer your questions:

Q - why do you want to receive bitcoins in return for you using your credit card purchasing stuff on amazon ?

A - There are a few reasons I chose this method to begin collecting BitCoins. The most obvious one is that I simply want some BitCoins. I could have used a Cash method of driving to a bank etc., but then I began to read about WoT and the importance of building a reputation in the community. Using one of the Cash exchanges would somewhat limit the opportunity to grow reputation. This method also lets other people, newbies like me, the chance to build reputation as it would be reciprocal. In addition, there must be people out there with BitCoins that would like an easy way to exchange their BitCoins for USD, and this basically allows for that (although they are required to spend it at the same time on a purchase through Amazon). So this satisfies a variety of interests rather than just simply acquiring BitCoins for myself. Decentralized acquisition and dispersion of BitCoins I guess you could say, and as I understand... that's one of the key principles of this currency. It's also a little inconvenient to drive down to the bank in order to get some digital currency. I should be able to get it digitally right

Q - Also, are you willing to use escrow for the transaction ? To be on the safe side, the buyer should probably have the coins in escrow for 30 days before they're released to you, to be on a reasonable safe side.

A - Sure I'd be willing to use escrow. At least to establish some reputation, that would make sense. In the long term I'd prefer not to wait the 30 days of course, granted people could trust me from past experience. Are there any escrow services you would recommend?


There must be an easy way to start this off that doesn't require a lot of risk. Anyone need a tube of toothpaste, or $1.99 Kindle book?

[Herodes]

Ok, you approach this in a mature way, which adds in building on your credibility.

Now, if you could somehow prove to buyers that you have a long standing account with Amazon, and that the credit card you use with Amazon also have been registered a long time ago, then this also may add to your credibility. If this is a new idea of yours, and you just recently registered with amazon, and you haven't yet done any purchases there, or only a few, that would be a very good reason to have eyebrows raised.

Would it be possible to do some partnership program with Amazon that could bring some more light of legitimacy to this business.

You probably understand that the reason newcomers are asked very hard questions, and that there's problematic to get trust is that on the first hand you're new, and on the other hand that you're dealing with some easily reversible payment option.

Now, if we look away from the fact that you might be a scammer, and assume you're a perfectly legitimate customer of amazon that will help people do btc > amazon purchases, then you need to somehow build confidence. And there's nothing better than just starting, and proving to the community that you're trustworthy.

Although I've never met certain people, I would trust them to hold btc. Two names comes immediately to mind: Gavin (head dev)  and Casascius (https://www.casascius.com/). Sturles also is a reputable trader. As for the first purchases from you, they could be small, to build up confidence.

Also linking one's shipping address to some random dude's CC on amazon, how would it turn out if there was something nefarious going on. Customers needs to feel safe.

If you're serious about this idea, I think perhaps making a website to offer your services and writing a faq to adress the concerns would be a good idea.

Please check this list to see what bitcoin businesses exist already: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

Perhaps if you search for amazon, you will see someone offering something similar to your services already. But that doesn't mean you should give up, there's always room for more businesses in the same segment.