14nm A4 Dominator ASIC, world best 1.5W/Mhs efficiency, coming soon

[Ykhoadiep]

14nm A4 Dominator ASIC, world best 1.5W/Mhs efficiency, coming soon

http://www.innosilicon.com.cn/uploadfile/2016/0330/news_20160330_05.jpg

Innosilicon, the world renowned creator of the dominating 28nm A2 Terminator, is proudly announcing the specification & availability of the exciting next generation 14nm ASIC code-named A4 Dominator. This is a full custom optimized LTC mining ASIC with a tremendous focus on efficiency and cost, providing an incredible up to 4Mhs per chip performance with as low as 1.5W/Mhs efficiency in a DCDC less daisy chain configuration. This will allow for next gen scrypt miners with an incredible 400MHs to 500MHs hash power per box, with easily over 300% better power efficiency over the previous generations and anyone else. The A4 miner will be the most profitable mining device in every category. Available as both an ASIC and a complete miner soon, nothing can touch the well-crafted A4 Dominator in terms of performance and cost in the next 2 years! Initial batch of A4 chips will be available in May for miner developer to design PCB and software. Mass produced A4 ASIC/Miners will be available in June/July 2016 based on pre-order sequence.

A4 Dominator ASIC & Miner Specifications:

A4 Miner: 400Mhs per 1KW power supply in one standard miner box
A4 ASIC: 3.5Mhs per chip performance at 2.5W/MHs nominal, see tables below on modes
Extreme Low Power: ASIC with large memory running at single rail 0.6V
One Start and New PCB: eliminate the need of DC-DC components and enable 14 to 20 A4 chips running off the single 12V DC supply
PSU Requirements: common PCI-E 8Pins/6+2Pins with 12V output
Included: Raspberry Pi running the most user friendly A2 terminator Software
Server Grid Reliability: built-in high-procession temperature sensor for automatic chip protection and variable frequency operation to maximize chip life time

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http://www.innosilicon.com.cn/uploadfile/2016/0330/news_20160330_01.jpg

A4 Chips’ DCDC-less Cascaded configuration, 14 to 20 chip per chain in one PCB

A4 Dominator is full custom optimized & taped-out in the world’s most advanced 14nm process, with huge amount of performance efficiency over any 28nm node. Our chips are under mass production and initial batch for developer will be available in May, with complete miners coming soon afterwards.

http://www.innosilicon.com.cn/uploadfile/2016/0330/news_20160330_03.jpg

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A4 Chip’s Package Diagram

The A4 Dominator will continue the fantastic A2 Terminator legacy in serving our mining community. With the unbeatable price and performance, A4 Dominator ASIC/Miner will revolutionize how we mine coins for the years to come. Please stay tuned for early bird discount!

For more information, please refer to www.innosilicon.com / www.innosilicon.com.cn, or contact us via email account: sales@innosilicon.com, zhangq@innosilicon.com.cn CC: sales@innosilicon.com.cn

Innosilicon Marketing

Marketing Cao đẳng xét nghiệm http://caodangykhoa.vn/cao-dang-xet-nghiem

[Eyedol-X]

So it's been a while without any updates. Do you actually have an eta on these next gen miners?

There is definitely something going on, I stumbled upon this recently which is announced as prototype for July:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-arrival-Zeus-Scrypt-Miner-All-Solution-Litecoin-Miner-300M-digging-Litecoin-with-power-supply-send/2048732975.html

Not mich info, but it gives at least some idea what will be on the price tag for those 14nm miners.

That looks exactly like an older 88MH Design -- It says A2 in description of auction but in details it says A4 -- I think it's BS.

 88 MH A2 still had 6 boards, not 5 - and the wiring is different too. Minor changes though - and there was some variation even in the A2 line of the "same model", I've got 4 Megas and they are NOT identical, different case lengths (2 long, 2 short) differences in the fans and other minor differences - but they ALL have 6 hash boards (the 110 had more chips / board, NOT an extra board, based my own units AND every picture I've seen of A2 units).

 It WOULD make sense for the A4 to be similar to the A2 in design and layout - consider the differences between the A1 Dragons and the A2 Terminators (oh yeah, same basic design carried over with minor changes).

 Price is WAY too high, but part of that might be the dealer markup.
 My "ballpark" estimate has been $2500ish from Innosilicon direct for a while now.


 I'm not inclined to say "scam" yet - but I concede the potential is there.

I hope when the real A4 hits, it's sub $2500

[QuintLeo]

I'd actually prefer it be higher = fewer machines sold = less hashrate growth = longer timeframe for my existing A2 farm to make more money.

 9-)

[Searing]

I'd actually prefer it be higher = fewer machines sold = less hashrate growth = longer timeframe for my existing A2 farm to make more money.

 9-)

Innsilicon from what I uderstand with the A2 Terminators ...did quite few of these but supposedly before they had NO data hall....and moved 'a lot' of bulk chip sales.

So it is the bulk chip sales I am worried about.

I have KNC Titan(s) (3 of them) so if the A4 Dominator comes out at 4k say..and is 400mh and 1150 watts ...the KNC Titans are 350mh and 1250 watts I can run with

that wolf pack just fine....and considering I have ROI'd on the above (with 3rd unit more or less in 5 weeks) and back to the amount of LTC I had before 3rd unit was

gotten and hashing 1/3 more from then on ( I call that a win) anyway.......again the issues I have with these machines coming out

BAD (from my selfish point of view)

1) Competition with Titans (my 19 month some units running miners)

2) They only  have a 90 day warranty...thus most asic makers I know did not even get their asic firmware figured out correctly in more the 90 days with big pools etc....could be
    an issue....kinda easy for the company to just walk with incomplete firmware etc..and 14nm chips ...could be more touchy then the Titans were/are At least the Titans
    you had a year to play RMA tag.

3) The 4k price may be a bit high. (IF it is that) with the amount of A4 units they pump out and/or bulk chip sales.

4) the massive bulk chip sales to Chinese miners and/or equip for such could be a real issue and blow up difficulty so the Titans go doorstops and the A4 units to us never ROI.


GOOD

1) Showing the flag with a NEW scrypt miner ...could revive all scrypt prices for coins and really pump LTC....in that it no longer looks like a 'last stand of the protocol' with just
    the Titans out there as the top end machines.

2) The price could go up for LTC and all scrypt coins as a result of the above.....further making likely A4 Dominators making ROI and Titans have an even longer lifespan as a result

3) The difficulty can go up much higher say at 6 buck LTC for the A4 and Titan miners .....then if difficulty gets slam'd and we are still at the 4-4.50 range...again could wash out
    to be OK for both Titan survival and A4 ROI especially say if it was to get around say 6 bucks or more...ie sure the difficulty rise was tough..but electric costs are the same the
    purchase price (A4 4K) and/or postpone of end of life on the Titans are the same..because the price rise from the new equip reviving scrypt and the difficulty being negated by
    such ..it could be a wash..ie A4's at the top of the heap for say 1 year plus and ROI....Titans tag'ing along till they blow up from age lol

Just my take on this at this point in time...but hell we get 7 bucks say LTC and 6months after the A4 ships in July we would have a MESS of probably bigger scrypt equipment come
out of the woodwork to blow difficulty up and the A4 and the Titans into door stop status...but it is likely if we are lucky...the A4 would have ROI'd due to the price increase
and Titans would hang on some as well..but 7 buck LTC everyone would be making asics again imho and the 'difficulty war' would be on again big time.


So anyway others can chime here but my take on this

[Longsnowsm]

It would be awesome to get some updates from the OP on this one.  The S9 is out and it is getting hard to wait on the A4.  Would love to see some timelines and updates on this. 

[Crypto Nut]

They will sell out no matter what the price, so the cheaper it is the better for the little guy like me. At 4k i will prob get 1 at 2.5k i would look at 2 or even 3. On the other Ann it gave specs of 600 to 850 Mhs https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1251930.0 so which are correct. If it has dropped to 400/500 then they do need to be nearer to the $2000 range than the $4000 range.

[Longsnowsm]

The risk increases dramatically as the ROI timeline grows due to the higher price.  If it is in the 4000 ballpark it becomes much harder to justify the cost as you then start talking about almost a 2 year ROI and anything can happen in that time frame.  If they can keep the cost down in the 2k range then it is a little easier to swallow.   Especially with halving on BTC coming soon.  Anything can happen from there.  I think they need to price it near to what the S9 is going for if it is going to have a shot with halving and diff increases. 

[QuintLeo]

Full-up Innosilicon miners have ALWAYS been a lot more expen$ive than the "equivilent gen" closest to comparable Bitcoin gear - $9995 or some such original price on the A2 NON-Mega at a time when Antminer S4 and Spondoolie SP30 were well under half that for example.

 By YOUR logic, the "mini" version of an A4 should run about $2k which would put the full version about $6k.



 Innosilicon also mentioned at one point that they aimed to bring out the A4 at the same price as the A2 - which was selling at $2500 direct up to VERY shortly before their final close-out on it and their introduction of the Farm Boy units. $4000 for DEALER pricing is in line with that for early days, probably dropping to $3000-$3500 after a couple months or so, given the very low amount of competition out there and the much higher costs involved in working with 14/16nm generation technology vs. 28nm.

 They also should command a substantial premium over remaining Titan units - better efficiency, probably TONS BETTER RELIABILITY if they're comparable to the A1/Dragon and A2 units, both make them worth sunstantially more.

 As far as ROI - well, when you're the most efficient kid on the block ROI is just a matter of having a unit that will last long enough and low enough electric rates to compete with the "big boys". Do keep in mind that hashrate and diff were barely increasing at all most of the last year, despite Litecoin being SOLIDLY profitable to mine with A2 units even at 10c/KWH electric and Litecoin pricing down around $3.
 If the price drops, the less-efficient higher-overhead folks will have to drop out first (or LOSE money) a fair bit before folks with A4s will, electric cost being equal.

[Searing]

Full-up Innosilicon miners have ALWAYS been a lot more expen$ive than the "equivilent gen" closest to comparable Bitcoin gear - $9995 or some such original price on the A2 NON-Mega at a time when Antminer S4 and Spondoolie SP30 were well under half that for example.

 By YOUR logic, the "mini" version of an A4 should run about $2k which would put the full version about $6k.



 Innosilicon also mentioned at one point that they aimed to bring out the A4 at the same price as the A2 - which was selling at $2500 direct up to VERY shortly before their final close-out on it and their introduction of the Farm Boy units. $4000 for DEALER pricing is in line with that for early days, probably dropping to $3000-$3500 after a couple months or so, given the very low amount of competition out there and the much higher costs involved in working with 14/16nm generation technology vs. 28nm.

 They also should command a substantial premium over remaining Titan units - better efficiency, probably TONS BETTER RELIABILITY if they're comparable to the A1/Dragon and A2 units, both make them worth sunstantially more.

 As far as ROI - well, when you're the most efficient kid on the block ROI is just a matter of having a unit that will last long enough and low enough electric rates to compete with the "big boys". Do keep in mind that hashrate and diff were barely increasing at all most of the last year, despite Litecoin being SOLIDLY profitable to mine with A2 units even at 10c/KWH electric and Litecoin pricing down around $3.
 If the price drops, the less-efficient higher-overhead folks will have to drop out first (or LOSE money) a fair bit before folks with A4s will, electric cost being equal.

Again hope you are correct but my Titan(s) (yeah they do work and yeah they were a dog in the past) have been running fine in the last year (due to 3rd party gift of god gen tarkin firmware mods) So that is not an issue for those who have the beasts......but at even 325 mh at 1250 watts....a Titan unit should be able to run with a 400mh A4 at 1150 watts just fine (at least as you say till they brick mine are 20 months old..but have ROI'd plus by now)

if it is a 2.5k price I likely will get one or two (at current 643 btc price and/or 5.09 ltc price I'm feeling quite 'spunky')

but again ...ALAS....I would assume that it is more likely to be 4k and above due to the btc and ltc pump then it has been in the past....if they do go for 2.5k they will sell faster then hotcakes
and scrypt will also have the FUN FUN FUN of BTC like difficulty rises of 2014-2015 (yech)

anyway last I heard JULY will probably ship to the big boys who paid over 100k to be first in line for big lots ...so I figure 1-5 units you would see out in Sept....

price of the unit...price of btc/ltc ...where you are in the order que...how many big data halls bought and will drive diff up before you even see the box...etc etc the usual gambles

[cjmining]

Looks like $4k is more likely. Still i will risk 1. I like to gamble on new coin releases, so ROI can come pretty quick. Just need to get lucky once or twice and good profit can be made much quicker than just mining LTC.

[QuintLeo]

I'm pretty sure ZoomHash is one of the "partners" - and that they'll be putting A4s up for sale within a month and likely a lot less after they GET some.

 Haven't gotten an answer back from them yet on my inquiry though - and I've done enough business with them that I SHOULD have a little leverege about getting info.

[Searing]

I'm pretty sure ZoomHash is one of the "partners" - and that they'll be putting A4s up for sale within a month and likely a lot less after they GET some.

 Haven't gotten an answer back from them yet on my inquiry though - and I've done enough business with them that I SHOULD have a little leverege about getting info.

Anyone doing a group update for these? Perhaps we could get a jump on this with the ..what was it ... 10 minimum orders or some such?

(then again I may be mixing this up with the defunct alcheminer scrypt project that never came to pass)

[daveolake]

I can't recover email I got from them but .. they said min 10 units at 265 mh/s at 1000w for $1800us.Plus shipping. pre order soon and delivery September +/- 1 month ... not very close to what they predicted it could do

[Longsnowsm]

Wow, that is a long shot from what they have stated the A4 would be able to do.  That is almost in Knc Titan territory for efficiency...  I have to say if those are the numbers they are rather disappointing.  I would be interested in the group buy also, but with those kinds of hashing and power figures are pretty disappointing if accurate.

[Longsnowsm]

I also confirmed via email that the info we have seen about the 260mh, roughly 1000w, $1800 for the pre-order miner is true.  This does NOT come with PSU's to keep shipping costs down.  I have asked for pictures and video of the miner and have questions for them regarding the 30 day warranty.  I also asked them about a group buy here on BCT.  So I will start a new thread for the group buy and hope that Innosilicon will partner with us to facilitate the group buy for those that are interested.  If any of you have had experience setting up a group buy before please chime on your experiences and what we can do to make something like this happen and be a smooth experience for all of us interested in taking part in this "adventure".  :-)

So watch for the A4 Group Buy thread to pop up here shortly.

[Longsnowsm]

Here is the post to follow the group buy that we are working to setup with Innosilicon:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1523298.0

[alucard20724]

if they can offer it for $1k.. please take my money.. 

[cjmining]

I am quite disappointed with the final spec and price, if that is the final spec and price. I think I will hold onto my money and see if they do any deals once it's been released. The final spec of 256 mhs 1000w is way short of the original 800 mhs 1200w. With a price of $1800 to boot. The original spec of 800 mhs had an estimated price tag of $4000 ish. now to get 800 mhs u have to buy 3 units so thats $5400 plus 2.5x the power consumption. Way too expensive if you ask me. I also read somewhere that they would not come with PSU's, not 100% sure about that, but if it's true then thats another $500-600 on top.

800 MH's @ 1200w for $4000 ish = mega deal

256 MH'S @ 1000w for $1800 (plus PSU) NOT SUCH A GOOD DEAL

[QuintLeo]

I doubt that the miners would have sold at $4000 on the original spec - probably more like $6-7000.

Even with the reduced "final" spec, the price is a LOT more reasonable than I was anticipating - especially if the miner is configurable to be able to use the "more efficient" settings the chip has available, and *IF* it can use the less-efficient but higher-hashrate setting the chip ALSO has available.


 Based on the final spec, they appear to be running the chip at the second-highest hashrate setting in their table, or close to it - which is also the second LOWEST efficiency.

[Longsnowsm]

We received an update from Innosilicon regarding the availability of the A4.  Here are the latest specs and info regarding the current batch 1 pre-order:

Update: World Most Profitable A4 Dominator Miner is coming soon! Early batch goes fast with best efficiency ever and very limited quantity, and who are the lucky ones to get the access to the first batch will, with no doubt, enjoy the early gain before anybody else, that means big profit.
 
Pre-order price: 1800 USD per unit plus shipping fee, 5 units to start
 
Estimated delivery time: Starts from August and max delay is one month.
 
Warrantee: 45 days parts warranty
 
Specifications:
l  Part Number: INNOSILICON A4 Dominator 280Mhs per unit (+-10% performance, can be over-clocked at user's risk)
l  Size: Length 28cm * Width 12.8cm * Height 25cm
l  Net weight: 11KG (without PSU)
l  ASIC: A4, 80pcs
l  Blade: 4pcs
l  Voltage: +12V
l  Power efficiency: Initial batch will be defaulted at 3.2W/Mhs in Turbo mode, 2.2W/Mhs in Norminal mode, and 1.35W/Mhs in ultra low power mode
l  Required rated PSU: 1000W or above, 8 * PCI-E 6Pin
PSU is external and exclusive to save your international shipping cost, which can be acquired used easily at low cost or reused from old version miners.
l  Included: Raspberry Pi, it is plug and play with your PSU

If you would like to know about the group buy we are organizing you can find that thread here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1523298.40