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Author Topic: Help with choosing a UPS / power conditioning setup for 4xAvalon V1 machines?  (Read 2788 times)
xempew
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February 08, 2013, 01:47:16 AM
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The title says it all, based on power consumption/load numbers being reported from the field, can anyone suggest a solution? Huh

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February 08, 2013, 02:11:33 AM
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The title says it all, based on power consumption/load numbers being reported from the field, can anyone suggest a solution? Huh

You want an UPS that can handle 4 of those Avalon monsters at once? Then "APC Matrix 5000VA/5KVA UPS" is the way to go. Or you could just buy 4 separate 1400VA UPSs.  If you want a rackmount solution then you want something like this: APC SmartUPS 1400VA ((SU1400RMXL3U).


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February 18, 2013, 02:32:48 AM
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I prematurely locked this thread and received a PM with some more useful info for future Avalon ASIC owners:

Choosing a UPS does require a little more research than your first response posted. It depends entirely upon how much power conditioning you want and how long you would like reserves.

Each Avalon ASIC is roughly 680W if I remember correctly and it runs off a power supply. Lets assume the power factor on this power supply is top of the line at 0.95 which brings you to about 716 VA/hr

4 units x 716 VA = 2863 VA/hr

This means the 1400 VA unit would last 30 minutes at best but you would probably get about 20-25 minutes. Most UPS's use a modified, stepped or square sine wave. A square sign wave may damage electronics and you want to avoid that. A stepped sign wave is probably adequate but a pure sine wave would be ideal.

Source:
I am a professional energy specialist

Thanks, bittenbob.

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February 18, 2013, 03:08:45 AM
 #4

Looking on this unit: http://www.amazon.com/APSX1250-Inverter-Charger-12VDC-230VAC-outlet/dp/B000BCEOIQ
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February 18, 2013, 03:17:59 AM
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I wouldn't do a UPS for a bitcoin miner or any other power using application. Its kind of like putting a drill press on a UPS so your factory can keep operating and you won't "lose money."

Here are the levels of protection are called and the terms you should use in specifying them. You need to know what you are doing so you are not robbed, for example buying a Monster Line Conditioner.

1) MOV protection - this is probably good enough for the Avalon device. Make sure you pay attention to the joule rating of the MOV and that the device has some indication that it has "blown."
2) Ferroresonant Transformer - In industrial settings where MTBF is a concern they will use something like a Sola Hevi-Duty Ferroresonant Transformer. You can probably find this as "leftovers" from an industrial application on ebay for pretty cheap.  Here is a product which can run 8 Avalons for only 5,000$. This is a bargain compared to the installation price of a UPS for an Avalon.
3) Complete electrical isolation - I guess you could install a bank of lead acid batteries and an inverter as you would in an application where people's lives would be in danger, there is a risk of massive financial losses, or you have made guarantees to customers they will not lose service. Hashing bitcoins doesn't really fit into any of those categories AFAIK.
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dafq is goin on


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February 18, 2013, 03:59:25 AM
 #6

With all those prices I would say: go for a normal gas/diesel driven generator and plug it over manually if needed. in 4 months you wont need the usv anymore... just my guess


http://www.amazon.com/DuroStar-DS4000S-4-Cycle-Portable-Generator/dp/B004918MO2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1361160014&sr=8-2&keywords=5kw+generator


you might even consider mining only with this generator in the beginning Wink

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February 18, 2013, 04:25:23 AM
 #7

the units are 620W max, I mean the power supply shipped it's a 650 Antec, so buy UPS accordingly.

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February 18, 2013, 04:31:18 AM
 #8

A UPS will increase your power draw as well.  It is probably not worth buying UPS for bitcoin mining.

galambo
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February 18, 2013, 05:36:27 AM
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Please note that this device simply dumps the utility line voltage onto your Avalon when utility line power is available. It is not a "UPS" in the sense most people understand it. It is simply a battery charger and a transfer switch. It provides no isolation and likely inadequate surge suppression.

Please keep in mind that you get what you pay for with power applications. The most important thing is to make sure you know what you are getting (please see reviews for the American Version).

Also it is designed for 50Hz 230V operation. Is this appropriate where you live?
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February 18, 2013, 06:05:50 AM
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Please note that this device simply dumps the utility line voltage onto your Avalon when utility line power is available. It is not a "UPS" in the sense most people understand it. It is simply a battery charger and a transfer switch. It provides no isolation and likely inadequate surge suppression.

Please keep in mind that you get what you pay for with power applications. The most important thing is to make sure you know what you are getting (please see reviews for the American Version).

Also it is designed for 50Hz 230V operation. Is this appropriate where you live?
I believe this is online/double-conversion (AC->DC - DC->AC) inverter, so it have fully independent input and output.
As for 230V, yes, this appropriate for my location.
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February 18, 2013, 06:14:34 AM
 #11

the units are 620W max, I mean the power supply shipped it's a 650 Antec, so buy UPS accordingly.

Hold on there, so if we want to expand to 4 bays we won't be able to use the stock PSU? That kind of makes the "hidden feature" pointless, doesn't it? Please forgive me if this has been addressed.

I'd like to know if a 650W was used for BF's unit. If so, great, nevermind. If not, OMGWTFBBQ.


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galambo
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February 18, 2013, 06:15:02 AM
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I believe this is online/double-conversion (AC->DC - DC->AC) inverter, so it have fully independent input and output.

No. It is not.

Again, please see the american version.. http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-APS1250-Inverter-Charger/dp/B0007NOUBA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1

Quote
Auto-Transfer Switching for UPS Operation

When the APS1250 is connected to an AC power source, power is passed through to connected equipment and the battery set is charged via a three-stage, 20-amp charging system with adjustable settings for wet/gel battery types. In the event of a power failure or severe voltage fluctuation, the APS1250 responds with a near-instantaneous (16.6 millisecond) automatic transfer to battery power. Any number of user-supplied batteries may be connected to the APS1250 to provide extended battery backup support for critical equipment. A three-position switch enables you to select AUTO mode for automatic transfer between utility and battery power, CHARGE-ONLY mode to maintain a full battery charge with no automatic transfer switching when the APS1250 is connected to AC power or SYSTEM OFF mode.
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February 18, 2013, 06:15:46 AM
 #13

the units are 620W max, I mean the power supply shipped it's a 650 Antec, so buy UPS accordingly.

Hold on there, so if we want to expand to 4 bays we won't be able to use the stock PSU? That kind of makes the "hidden feature" pointless, doesn't it? Please forgive me if this has been addressed.

I'd like to know if a 650W was used for BF's unit. If so, great, nevermind. If not, OMGWTFBBQ.



1000w psu was used in this application
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February 18, 2013, 06:43:29 AM
 #14

What about voltage under run protection for those who don't have first world grids?

Do you think insufficient voltage/power would/could damage the units?

Normally people (here) would use only an auto voltage regulator.. But ive been through 4 motherboards in 6 years (with high end APC units for power conditioning/ups/avr).. So it's not really working out well.. At the same time, I've had a server in a near by datacenter for 2-3 years now without a single hitch, reboot, or issue.

The transformers here are shared. I wonder if I should fork out the 1000$ to get them to install a dedicated transformer for my house? Most houses nearby don't even have refrigerators, the transformer now is pretty much dedicated.

Wondering if I should also just get some sort of enterprise level power conditioning for my house. Any recommendations?


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February 18, 2013, 06:56:38 AM
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I believe this is online/double-conversion (AC->DC - DC->AC) inverter, so it have fully independent input and output.

No. It is not.

Again, please see the american version.. http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-APS1250-Inverter-Charger/dp/B0007NOUBA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1

Quote
Auto-Transfer Switching for UPS Operation

When the APS1250 is connected to an AC power source, power is passed through to connected equipment and the battery set is charged via a three-stage, 20-amp charging system with adjustable settings for wet/gel battery types. In the event of a power failure or severe voltage fluctuation, the APS1250 responds with a near-instantaneous (16.6 millisecond) automatic transfer to battery power. Any number of user-supplied batteries may be connected to the APS1250 to provide extended battery backup support for critical equipment. A three-position switch enables you to select AUTO mode for automatic transfer between utility and battery power, CHARGE-ONLY mode to maintain a full battery charge with no automatic transfer switching when the APS1250 is connected to AC power or SYSTEM OFF mode.
Oh, thanks for pointing to that... Will search for other online/double-conversion solution...
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February 18, 2013, 03:47:13 PM
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the units are 620W max, I mean the power supply shipped it's a 650 Antec, so buy UPS accordingly.

Hold on there, so if we want to expand to 4 bays we won't be able to use the stock PSU? That kind of makes the "hidden feature" pointless, doesn't it? Please forgive me if this has been addressed.

I'd like to know if a 650W was used for BF's unit. If so, great, nevermind. If not, OMGWTFBBQ.




the unit that went to BF is enermax powered. revolution87+ model, 850 or 1000

galambo
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February 18, 2013, 04:05:49 PM
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What about voltage under run protection for those who don't have first world grids?

Do you think insufficient voltage/power would/could damage the units?

Normally people (here) would use only an auto voltage regulator.. But ive been through 4 motherboards in 6 years (with high end APC units for power conditioning/ups/avr).. So it's not really working out well.. At the same time, I've had a server in a near by datacenter for 2-3 years now without a single hitch, reboot, or issue.

The transformers here are shared. I wonder if I should fork out the 1000$ to get them to install a dedicated transformer for my house? Most houses nearby don't even have refrigerators, the transformer now is pretty much dedicated.

Wondering if I should also just get some sort of enterprise level power conditioning for my house. Any recommendations?




If you live in a 3rd world country and have serious power quality issues meaning your expected life of plugging in a UPS or computer equipment is measured can be measured in months I would recommend the ferroresonant transformer above. Make sure it is sized correctly to your load, and you have a remote enclosure & seperate power circuit to run it into your house. These devices are very noisy but will provide the power your utility company should be providing.

For people in 1st world countries without the above issues I would recommend a good MOV surge suppressor only. No UPS.
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February 18, 2013, 04:16:23 PM
 #18

Please note that this device simply dumps the utility line voltage onto your Avalon when utility line power is available. It is not a "UPS" in the sense most people understand it. It is simply a battery charger and a transfer switch. It provides no isolation and likely inadequate surge suppression.

Most of the cheap UPSs out there operate on similar principles (maybe with better surge protection).

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February 18, 2013, 11:28:30 PM
 #19

You need some deep cycle batteries and a good pure sinewave inverter, someting like an Outback VFX3524.  The inverter has a high capacity battery charger built in designed for operating from dirty generator power with possibly improper voltage or frequency, it would have no problem with your grid power.


This lets you make your own UPS but much, much better quality and capable of running your rigs 24/7 if needed as long as you have enough battery or a source of DC power.  And bonus, now you can add solar panels very easy.  Just hook as many into you want into your batteries, the inverter will only draw grid power when it needs to keep the batteries from falling below a certain point and provide 100% clean power 24/7.  It would even have enough capacity left to run a computer or something even with 4x avalon running.
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February 19, 2013, 03:28:44 AM
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If you live in a 3rd world country and have serious power quality issues meaning your expected life of plugging in a UPS or computer equipment is measured can be measured in months I would recommend the ferroresonant transformer above. Make sure it is sized correctly to your load, and you have a remote enclosure & seperate power circuit to run it into your house. These devices are very noisy but will provide the power your utility company should be providing.

For people in 1st world countries without the above issues I would recommend a good MOV surge suppressor only. No UPS.

Are there any systems you're aware of that are designed to protect an entire structure? Since we're building a new house it would be nice if i could just condition/filter everything coming into our house. I would like to do so without batteries. I don't care if the power goes out, I just don't want it to damage my electronics when it's on or inbetween.

It would be really nice if I could just put a unit in between our power line and the distribution panel that is rated for 23KW (100A @ 230V) or so.

Edit:

Found this that appears to have some conditioning properties to it. But no isolation.

http://www.usesmfg.com/productlinertechnicalspecs.nxg
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