Why Ripple is a bad idea.

[phelix]

[...]
free 10,000 coins
[...]

where? 

rHHaTtkc2mAu77Nou6Nbk34t6ooh9LPebi

[matthewh3]

[...]
free 10,000 coins
[...]

where? 

rHHaTtkc2mAu77Nou6Nbk34t6ooh9LPebi

  rJAJuQLVp8JJaCfP3hT7ZCrVMRTFNYQcHi 

[Monster Tent]

Joel ripple is your site? If so where can I get an explanation of how it works and if i like it how can I help?

I'm one of the people working on it. There's lots of explanatory material in the wiki: https://ripple.com/wiki

I think the concept behind Ripple is infinite rehypothecation. If someone accrues enough IOUs, then even if many of them are worthless, they all average out. It presupposes that bad debtors will not themselves aggregate enough Ripple points to matter to the system and will be weeded out. It makes sense if we presume that social pressures will determine the average value of Ripple tokens.  It's a numbers game that needs to be based on social science. I would really like to see the algorithms that go into determining the risk and value of the IOUs, but I have a feeling that this will not be forthcoming. If they are not absolutely revolutionary algorithms, then we are looking at a system that will be easily gamed.

I think the algorithms behind Ripple will make a quant blush.

Ripple IOUs are just balances, just like a bank balance. If you have a bank balance of $50, that means your bank owes you $50. For me to pay you $50, I give you a check. The system processes that check and then my bank owes me $50 less, your bank owes you $50 more, and you consider me to have paid you $50. Most likely, you would only hold your bank's IOUs, so the only worthless IOUs you have to worry about is if your bank fails.

Ripple will fail because of the same reasons Diaspora failed.

[markm]

Huh? When did Diaspora fail? Last I heard it was just being developed and wasn't really fully built yet, else I would have given it a try. It looked like a come back in a year or few stage of development. Did the developers abandon it or something?

-MarkM-

[Monster Tent]

Huh? When did Diaspora fail? Last I heard it was just being developed and wasn't really fully built yet, else I would have given it a try. It looked like a come back in a year or few stage of development. Did the developers abandon it or something?

-MarkM-

I think its an example of the network effect where you join up and none of your friends are there. In the same way It is pointless to use ripple if you are the only one in your circle using it.

[markm]

If the people in your circle prefer to sell your personal info for basically nothing maybe leaving them behind isn't a bad thing.

-MarkM-

[matthewh3]

Joel ripple is your site? If so where can I get an explanation of how it works and if i like it how can I help?

I'm one of the people working on it. There's lots of explanatory material in the wiki: https://ripple.com/wiki

I think the concept behind Ripple is infinite rehypothecation. If someone accrues enough IOUs, then even if many of them are worthless, they all average out. It presupposes that bad debtors will not themselves aggregate enough Ripple points to matter to the system and will be weeded out. It makes sense if we presume that social pressures will determine the average value of Ripple tokens.  It's a numbers game that needs to be based on social science. I would really like to see the algorithms that go into determining the risk and value of the IOUs, but I have a feeling that this will not be forthcoming. If they are not absolutely revolutionary algorithms, then we are looking at a system that will be easily gamed.

I think the algorithms behind Ripple will make a quant blush.

Ripple IOUs are just balances, just like a bank balance. If you have a bank balance of $50, that means your bank owes you $50. For me to pay you $50, I give you a check. The system processes that check and then my bank owes me $50 less, your bank owes you $50 more, and you consider me to have paid you $50. Most likely, you would only hold your bank's IOUs, so the only worthless IOUs you have to worry about is if your bank fails.

Ripple will fail because of the same reasons Diaspora failed.

I think DIASPORA* is far better off being run as not-for-profit and/or as .eepsites or .onion for the Pods as well.  Yes it needs a lot more development but just because the original foundation couldn't run at a profit doesn't mean DIASPORA* is dead or dying.  It's opensource and will be around as long as people use it

[JoelKatz]

I think its an example of the network effect where you join up and none of your friends are there. In the same way It is pointless to use ripple if you are the only one in your circle using it.

It's pointless to use the community credit aspect. But I don't think community credit is going to be a big deal for a long time. I'd love to be wrong about that, of course. I think community credit is an awesome idea.

Bitcoin had, and to some extent still has, much the same problem. What can you do with the bitcoin network? Well, you can send bitcoins to people. But unless you know people who want them or have them, that doesn't help you much.

The trick is to find ways to drive adoption in the absence of large amounts of existing adoption. That is a challenge. We have a few strategies to drive adoption, but the main one is to give away XRP and offer people a free alternative to existing payments systems.

[phelix]

I think its an example of the network effect where you join up and none of your friends are there. In the same way It is pointless to use ripple if you are the only one in your circle using it.

It's pointless to use the community credit aspect. But I don't think community credit is going to be a big deal for a long time. I'd love to be wrong about that, of course. I think community credit is an awesome idea.

Bitcoin had, and to some extent still has, much the same problem. What can you do with the bitcoin network? Well, you can send bitcoins to people. But unless you know people who want them or have them, that doesn't help you much.

The trick is to find ways to drive adoption in the absence of large amounts of existing adoption. That is a challenge. We have a few strategies to drive adoption, but the main one is to give away XRP and offer people a free alternative to existing payments systems.

where? link please

somehow this reminds of the xkcd comic with the moral dilemma and the kill button 

[nyusternie]

OpenCoin Inc gets 80 billion ripples.

The founding developers get 20 billion ripples.

There is a hard limit of 100 billion ripples.

in other words, opencoin inc is comparable to the federal reserve. Go beg OpenCoin Inc for some ripples, you need them to even start using the service  

Wow! I had NO idea this is how it was going to work. When I received my 10,000 coins, I was like, "GREAT! that should be enough to get most of my friends involved." For weeks now, I've been rather excited about the idea of Ripple and how well it could compliment Bitcoin. But, I didn't realize that I'd be contributing to the prosperity of the OpenCoin Society and their honored members.

I have nothing against this model or the reasons behind it, I was just completely unaware. I plead ignorance. Is this information public anywhere, so that I may read and better understand their philosophy moving forward?

thanks,
s.

[matthewh3]

OpenCoin Inc gets 80 billion ripples.

The founding developers get 20 billion ripples.

There is a hard limit of 100 billion ripples.

in other words, opencoin inc is comparable to the federal reserve. Go beg OpenCoin Inc for some ripples, you need them to even start using the service  

Wow! I had NO idea this is how it was going to work. When I received my 10,000 coins, I was like, "GREAT! that should be enough to get most of my friends involved." For weeks now, I've been rather excited about the idea of Ripple and how well it could compliment Bitcoin. But, I didn't realize that I'd be contributing to the prosperity of the OpenCoin Society and their honored members.

I have nothing against this model or the reasons behind it, I was just completely unaware. I plead ignorance. Is this information public anywhere, so that I may read and better understand their philosophy moving forward?

thanks,
s.

How do you get 10,000 XRP I only have 411 and can't send any to my friends who want to test it.  This is my wallet - rJAJuQLVp8JJaCfP3hT7ZCrVMRTFNYQcHi - and this is one of my friends who I can't grant any IOU's too or send any XRP - rqXLcc5EUZpMihsJ6c4C6H3pm7CSxcf7B - I have other friends too I'm trying to get to test the system.

[Liquid]

what i need some coins too 

rsuvuGXuWdoRUJXiLQ7z9kyM4tjuXgrZJs

[nyusternie]

well considering that none of my friends have accepted my invitation. this seems like a perfect opportunity to test out the system.

How do you get 10,000 XRP I only have 411 and can't send any to my friends who want to test it.  This is my wallet - rJAJuQLVp8JJaCfP3hT7ZCrVMRTFNYQcHi - and this is one of my friends who I can't grant any IOU's too or send any XRP - rqXLcc5EUZpMihsJ6c4C6H3pm7CSxcf7B - I have other friends too I'm trying to get to test the system.

what i need some coins too 

rsuvuGXuWdoRUJXiLQ7z9kyM4tjuXgrZJs

just sent 1,000 to rJAJuQLVp8JJaCfP3hT7ZCrVMRTFNYQcHi
and another 1,000 to rsuvuGXuWdoRUJXiLQ7z9kyM4tjuXgrZJs

please let me know if you got em'

s.

[Liquid]

Cheers bud i got them 

[matthewh3]

Thanks  

edit: sent on to friends to try as you need a minimum balance of 400XRP to perform a tx don't you?

[phelix]

It would be nice to see proof-of-meaningful-work based ripple coins come up. For example seti or folding@home could hand out ious for work done.

[Explodicle]

I was under the impression that XRP are meaningless except for spam protection. They're like Bitcoin in that they have no physical backing, but also require trust.

Why not use BTC IOU's within Ripple for this purpose? Or grant XRP only by sending BTC to a public-key-only address? ("Burning" them)

If it IS a premine, then anyone should be able to fork and start a new ledger which backs the anti-spam currency with Bitcoin. Would such a fork be able to cooperate with an XRP-based network?

If it's not a premine and no one cares enough to fix it, I can understand why this added complexity isn't worth development time.

[JoelKatz]

If it IS a premine, then anyone should be able to fork and start a new ledger which backs the anti-spam currency with Bitcoin. Would such a fork be able to cooperate with an XRP-based network?

Nobody's figured out how to do this yet, it's a very hard problem to solve.

See this thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133096.msg1541453#msg1541453

[Milkshake]

Ripple = 100% premined coin

Ripple won't ever succeed 

[jimbobway]

Joel,

Why would someone want to run a ripple server?  With bitcoin, miners are rewarded.  With ripple...

Thx.

Jim