BW 14nm Miners Update

[philipma1957]

BW is currently the #5 hash producer overall accounting for 8% of the network in the world and #1 Cloud mining provider in China. We have a earned a reputation of reliability and quality service in the domestic market. BW looks forward to bringing the same level of service to the international market. Please take a look at some pics of the office, mining farm and a look at the first batch our 14nm miners.Also here's our recent article in Bitcoin Magazine introducing the history and business of BW.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/the-unknown-giant-a-first-look-inside-bw-one-of-china-s-oldest-and-largest-miners-1444675310

http://imgur.com/a/WHajz

BW will not take pre-sale money from public sales and is committed to decentralization of Bitcoin mining by providing high performance miners to the public. Unfortunately due to incredible demand in our home market from large volume purchasers we are not able to open public sales as previously scheduled in April.

Selling out all your gear to Chinese farms is far from "committed to decentralization of Bitcoin mining"

yeah  I was looking at f2pool stats  300 ph  and 270 ph is located in China  .  This is a problem I figure 60% of the worlds gear is located in China maybe more.

I really looked into f2pools stats  and of the 270ph in China 200ph is with big miners and 70 ph is with small miners

Assuming  Antpool is the same  more then 550 ph of the two are in china and at least 400ph are big farms

not count BW's cloud so more then 650ph in gear is in china

[elokk]

James Dangelo has an interesting theory on the mining situation:


https://buyabitcoin.com.au/blog/james-dangelo-bitcoin-mining-centralizing-worst-possible-places-china/

(The interview he does on the podcast Bitcoin Uncensored is pretty good, Chris Derose and Junseth do some tough interviews)

Here is a challenge to any company like BW that is trying to put on the persona that they support bitcoin decentralization. Sell all your gear to nations other than China FIRST to even the hash rate out. There are plenty of people ready to buy so the ball is in your court BW.

[mwizard]

Here is a challenge to any company like BW that is trying to put on the persona that they support bitcoin decentralization. Sell all your gear to nations other than China FIRST to even the hash rate out. There are plenty of people ready to buy so the ball is in your court BW.

The question is, why have no large mining farms in places like the USA designed their own mining ASICs.   Where do they expect to get their miners from if they don't develop them themselves?  No-one is going to sell them the latest miners if the manufacturer can make more money mining themselves.  

Why has 21.inc no viable miner despite raising over a hundred million dollars? Are there any large miners in Washington State capable of designing a miner?

KNC in Sweden has shown it can be done.  Bitfury in central Europe, Spondoolies in Israel have also done it.

 

[notlist3d]

BW is currently the #5 hash producer overall accounting for 8% of the network in the world and #1 Cloud mining provider in China. We have a earned a reputation of reliability and quality service in the domestic market. BW looks forward to bringing the same level of service to the international market. Please take a look at some pics of the office, mining farm and a look at the first batch our 14nm miners.Also here's our recent article in Bitcoin Magazine introducing the history and business of BW.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/the-unknown-giant-a-first-look-inside-bw-one-of-china-s-oldest-and-largest-miners-1444675310

http://imgur.com/a/WHajz

BW will not take pre-sale money from public sales and is committed to decentralization of Bitcoin mining by providing high performance miners to the public. Unfortunately due to incredible demand in our home market from large volume purchasers we are not able to open public sales as previously scheduled in April.

Selling out all your gear to Chinese farms is far from "committed to decentralization of Bitcoin mining"

yeah  I was looking at f2pool stats  300 ph  and 270 ph is located in China  .  This is a problem I figure 60% of the worlds gear is located in China maybe more.

I really looked into f2pools stats  and of the 270ph in China 200ph is with big miners and 70 ph is with small miners

Assuming  Antpool is the same  more then 550 ph of the two are in china and at least 400ph are big farms

not count BW's cloud so more then 650ph in gear is in china

I think this shows what sweet deals they are able to find on electricity.  It's hard to fault these companies for going with China, as much as I would like it to be more distributed. 

Think they can drive a semi from factory to plant with tons of new miners.  So cut down costs there.  They are saving costs and getting cheap electricity.  I don't see it stopping unless electricity prices go up.... then things change.  But a LOT of these business's have already made the initial investments and are just replacing gear at this point.

[philipma1957]

Here is a challenge to any company like BW that is trying to put on the persona that they support bitcoin decentralization. Sell all your gear to nations other than China FIRST to even the hash rate out. There are plenty of people ready to buy so the ball is in your court BW.

The question is, why have no large mining farms in places like the USA designed their own mining ASICs.   Where do they expect to get their miners from if they don't develop them themselves?  No-one is going to sell them the latest miners if the manufacturer can make more money mining themselves.  

Why has 21.inc no viable miner despite raising over a hundred million dollars? Are there any large miners in Washington State capable of designing a miner?

KNC in Sweden has shown it can be done.  Bitfury in central Europe, Spondoolies in Israel have also done it.

 

Like it or not the truth is BTC is small not big and the oil or gold or silver is 3/4 gone come July.

So 21 mill x .25 = 5.25 million coins

At 400 usd we are talking 2.1 billion dollars left in the ether of cyberspace

So why should I spend good money to get the remaining coins.
Most companies do a calculation to figure an idea or model for building the gear.

The truth is for most companies it does not make sense to build the gear.

Let's say I have deep deep deep deep pockets. I want to spend 1,000,000 for chips and have  someone like sidehack build a lot of 400 watt 4th miners.
The viability to do this and break even is really difficult.  Plus no one will sell the chips to me. So where do I go bitmaintech or Avalon. 

I don't have 15,000,000 to build a chip from start and if I did the chip factories will still make me wait to make my chips.

[QuintLeo]

Here is a challenge to any company like BW that is trying to put on the persona that they support bitcoin decentralization. Sell all your gear to nations other than China FIRST to even the hash rate out. There are plenty of people ready to buy so the ball is in your court BW.

The question is, why have no large mining farms in places like the USA designed their own mining ASICs.   Where do they expect to get their miners from if they don't develop them themselves?  No-one is going to sell them the latest miners if the manufacturer can make more money mining themselves.  

Why has 21.inc no viable miner despite raising over a hundred million dollars? Are there any large miners in Washington State capable of designing a miner?

KNC in Sweden has shown it can be done.  Bitfury in central Europe, Spondoolies in Israel have also done it.

MegaBigPower has been a Bitfury shop/partner since early days.


21.inc has a "vision" - but ghods only knows what it really is.

KNC has ... lawsuits.

Spoondoolies has ... a bad deal on their merger that seems to be well along the way to killing them.

Avalons has ... no committment to 14/16nm at all as of a few months ago, likely they won't even try 'till it's too late to matter.

BW has ... an apparently in-production first-gen 14nm miner that is too little, too late - barely more efficient than the best 28nm miners - and an announced "second-gen" chip that is supposedly competative with the Bitfury chip, but a few months off if they don't have any issues getting it to production. If they didn't have LKetc backing them I'd be about ready to write them off - but LKetc has a track history of delivering reliable miners.

Innosilicon has ... an annouced Scrypt chip that's a game-changer, an announcement that they were working on a next-gen SHA256 chip but no specs for it, and quite a few questions about what, when, and how much. They're still out there though, and they're the ONLY major player left that has a business OTHER THAN cryptocoin mining to generate money for them (there's a REASON they're the only folks in the industry that never bothered with pre-orders).

Bitmain has ... dwindling sales on the S7, a large mine that's still profitable, a fat wallet from their sales of the S7 and earlier miners, and is working on a 14/16nm gen chip that could show up around the halfing, but they're pretty closed mouth so no certainties there on what and when - but I'm CERTAIN they will continue to be a player for at least one more generation.


BitFury has ... a demonstrated working high-efficiency chip, farms, and partners, but a lot of questions about "when" and "how much" remaining.


 Who wins?

 Ask me again in 2 years or so.

 8-)

[notlist3d]

Here is a challenge to any company like BW that is trying to put on the persona that they support bitcoin decentralization. Sell all your gear to nations other than China FIRST to even the hash rate out. There are plenty of people ready to buy so the ball is in your court BW.

The question is, why have no large mining farms in places like the USA designed their own mining ASICs.   Where do they expect to get their miners from if they don't develop them themselves?  No-one is going to sell them the latest miners if the manufacturer can make more money mining themselves.  

Why has 21.inc no viable miner despite raising over a hundred million dollars? Are there any large miners in Washington State capable of designing a miner?

KNC in Sweden has shown it can be done.  Bitfury in central Europe, Spondoolies in Israel have also done it.

MegaBigPower has been a Bitfury shop/partner since early days.


21.inc has a "vision" - but ghods only knows what it really is.

KNC has ... lawsuits.

Spoondoolies has ... a bad deal on their merger that seems to be well along the way to killing them.

Avalons has ... no committment to 14/16nm at all as of a few months ago, likely they won't even try 'till it's too late to matter.

BW has ... an apparently in-production first-gen 14nm miner that is too little, too late - barely more efficient than the best 28nm miners - and an announced "second-gen" chip that is supposedly competative with the Bitfury chip, but a few months off if they don't have any issues getting it to production. If they didn't have LKetc backing them I'd be about ready to write them off - but LKetc has a track history of delivering reliable miners.

Innosilicon has ... an annouced Scrypt chip that's a game-changer, an announcement that they were working on a next-gen SHA256 chip but no specs for it, and quite a few questions about what, when, and how much. They're still out there though, and they're the ONLY major player left that has a business OTHER THAN cryptocoin mining to generate money for them (there's a REASON they're the only folks in the industry that never bothered with pre-orders).

Bitmain has ... dwindling sales on the S7, a large mine that's still profitable, a fat wallet from their sales of the S7 and earlier miners, and is working on a 14/16nm gen chip that could show up around the halfing, but they're pretty closed mouth so no certainties there on what and when - but I'm CERTAIN they will continue to be a player for at least one more generation.


BitFury has ... a demonstrated working high-efficiency chip, farms, and partners, but a lot of questions about "when" and "how much" remaining.


 Who wins?

 Ask me again in 2 years or so.

 8-)

Some we can count out I think.

21 Inc vision was put chips in everyday items.... what they came out with is one of the worlds highest RPI's.

Spoondoolies they have released papers due to merger.  They were HIGHLY profitable and top tier employees made huge bonus.   But they seem to be more interested in this merger then making more gear.    SP50 specs are beat by bitfury out of gate.... they remain quiet.

Innosilicon they tried to do 2 chips at once, could have paid out big.  But so far really not seeing upside looks like they should have focused on 1 chip then moved on to other.

So those 3 I think are ones we don't have to watch to closely for time being. 

[QuintLeo]

Innosilicon has already announced miners due in June/July timeframe on the A4 (the one they wanted partners on 'cause they weren't sure it was worth doing, NOT the A3 they apparently didn't want or need partners on) - and given they stated they expected to have BOTH out at the same time, I'd be watching them VERY closely indeed.

 On the down side, the last announcement that included date estimates on the A4 also showed it to be a fair bit less efficient than their original estimate - implies that the A3 might also have ended up in the S7/B11 efficiency ballpark, which is NOT a good place to be right before the halfing on a new unit....

[Mikestang]

The question is, why have no large mining farms in places like the USA designed their own mining ASICs.  

We here in the USA decided it would be a good idea if we got rid of all technical industry and manufacturing that made our country great at one time and let all that tech development occur over seas.

Plus there are no large mining farms in the USA to the scale or in the number that exist elsewhere.

[scyth3]

The question is, why have no large mining farms in places like the USA designed their own mining ASICs.  

We here in the USA decided it would be a good idea if we got rid of all technical industry and manufacturing that made our country great at one time and let all that tech development occur over seas.

Plus there are no large mining farms in the USA to the scale or in the number that exist elsewhere.

Sad, but so true.

[QuintLeo]

The question is, why have no large mining farms in places like the USA designed their own mining ASICs.  

We here in the USA decided it would be a good idea if we got rid of all technical industry and manufacturing that made our country great at one time and let all that tech development occur over seas.

Plus there are no large mining farms in the USA to the scale or in the number that exist elsewhere.

 In the number, no.

 In the SCALE, there's at least one and I'm pretty sure multiple - MegaBigPower and Zoomhash both run some serious-size farms in Washington.
 They're just pretty quiet about that in recent years.


 I DON'T know of MBP is still anywhere near 5% of the TOTAL Bitcoin hashrate any more, but that was their target and they were mightly close to it for a long time.

 Zoomhash seems to be more diversified - the A2 gear they were selling off 'till a week or two ago seems to have come from their farm, as the ones I bought some months back were shipped out of the Wenatchee area. No clue if their farm is anywhere near as big as MBP.

[notlist3d]

The question is, why have no large mining farms in places like the USA designed their own mining ASICs.  

We here in the USA decided it would be a good idea if we got rid of all technical industry and manufacturing that made our country great at one time and let all that tech development occur over seas.

Plus there are no large mining farms in the USA to the scale or in the number that exist elsewhere.

 

Also US we sadly don't have good track record for mining companies making the miners.  If we would have had a great consumer asic manufactuer on big scale, likely would have given us some edge.  But what have we had big scale, BFL? I mean BFL is biggest one I can think of and we all know how it went.

So China kinda wins on manufacture with having so many companies making it all in one place. And also having places with low electricity price many of the miners will never leave China.

[Sierra8561]

Ant new news on the June release?

[notlist3d]

Ant new news on the June release?

Nothing that I have heard.  Last we knew they had managed to get new NM chip which is a decent deal.  But they reported it miss specced and came in around Avalon 6/S7 efficiency.

Also they kept a TON of these internally for their cloud.  A few made it to market I think price was high, but it was VERY few that made it to small customers. I think I just saw one re seller with it.   But there could have been more I just did not see.

[5h4do3]

what is the price of electricity in China...?.. 0.05$ per kw..

[dogie]

Spoondoolies has ... a bad deal on their merger that seems to be well along the way to killing them.

And lawsuits, lets not forget the lawsuits

what is the price of electricity in China...?.. 0.05$ per kw..

As a very broad average, sure. There are higher and lower places although most of the lower places have been entirely filled now.

[asradoni]

what is the price of electricity in China...?.. 0.05$ per kw..

For the residents, the price is from $0.09 to $0.2 per Wh. It depends on the usage. If it is over 4800 kWh per year, the price is 0.2$.

[notlist3d]

what is the price of electricity in China...?.. 0.05$ per kw..

For the residents, the price is from $0.09 to $0.2 per Wh. It depends on the usage. If it is over 4800 kWh per year, the price is 0.2$.

And don't forget these mega mines have a very good relationship with the electric companies.  They normally find a place with a lot of extra electricity and I think have a rate locked in before investing a ton in a bitcoin mine.    So buying unused electricity in huge bulk, they will get the low side by far.

Now residents they are going to be higher obviously. And as most places it is a wide variety based on location and usage.

[Amph]

what is the price of electricity in China...?.. 0.05$ per kw..

For the residents, the price is from $0.09 to $0.2 per Wh. It depends on the usage. If it is over 4800 kWh per year, the price is 0.2$.

ah so a casual miners will not have a cheap electricity, like i was thinking, you need a special contract for sitting on a 0.05 cent or lower

i guess those special contract are done only to those that need a big amount of kwh

then iceland or kuway are a better place for mining, since the electricity there is cheap for everyone regardless of your kw usgae

[Sierra8561]

what is the price of electricity in China...?.. 0.05$ per kw..

For the residents, the price is from $0.09 to $0.2 per Wh. It depends on the usage. If it is over 4800 kWh per year, the price is 0.2$.

ah so a casual miners will not have a cheap electricity, like i was thinking, you need a special contract for sitting on a 0.05 cent or lower

i guess those special contract are done only to those that need a big amount of kwh

then iceland or kuway are a better place for mining, since the electricity there is cheap for everyone regardless of your kw usgae

You can get good power rates in the US for small amounts of power.