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Question: For those owed by bASIC: How much would you be willing to contribute to costs to recover a maximum of $1000/each from bASIC to be considered settled.
No deal. I'm owed a lot more than that. - 14 (23%)
$10 - 2 (3.3%)
$20 - 1 (1.6%)
$30 - 1 (1.6%)
$40 - 0 (0%)
$50 - 8 (13.1%)
$100 - 5 (8.2%)
$200 - 3 (4.9%)
$500 - 2 (3.3%)
$750 - 0 (0%)
$1000 - I just want justice. - 13 (21.3%)
more - It's all principle at this point. - 12 (19.7%)
Total Voters: 61

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 »  All
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Author Topic: LEGAL COURSE of ACTION Discussion --- bASIC / BitcoinASIC  (Read 20741 times)
yxt
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March 02, 2013, 07:56:33 PM
 #161

-up-

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||bit
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March 03, 2013, 12:39:13 AM
 #162

I need a count of people who are ready to take legal action to recover their BTC purchases.
If your ready to take action, PM me, (DO NOT POST in this forum)
I need a count to give to the NY Lawyer I have working on this.

I want to at least let people know that, I've not communicated with Mobius about this. I'm not saying anything bad about Mobius, because I don't know him. But apparently he's taking his own action.

It may turn out that more than two groups of people with lawyers work similar lawsuits against Tom. That might be good, but it also might be bad (for some).

That said. Three of us have discussed by phone how to pursue legal action. One is currently in communication with a lawyer in New York state. We have been waiting for more feedback on this before inviting everyone interested.



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veil|     PRIVACY     
     WITHOUT COMPROMISE.       
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|   NO ICO. NO PREMINE. 
   X16RT GPU Mining. Fair distribution.   
|      The first Zerocoin-based Cryptocurrency       
   WITH ALWAYS-ON PRIVACY.   
|



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March 03, 2013, 12:45:30 AM
 #163

@||bit

thx for the info  Smiley

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March 03, 2013, 02:41:18 AM
 #164

Update: I have spoken to the Atty in NY, he is reviewing the set of paperwork I submitted. He is also aware that several people have PM me with an interest in pursuing legal action. I also mentioned that there are several people from outside the United States. When I get the go ahead from him, I will PM each person with the contact information for the Atty and what he needs from you to move this action forward.

I have not spoken with ||bit. I do not know where they are at.
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March 03, 2013, 08:55:13 AM
Last edit: March 03, 2013, 09:59:48 AM by ||bit
 #165

Update: I have spoken to the Atty in NY, he is reviewing the set of paperwork I submitted. He is also aware that several people have PM me with an interest in pursuing legal action. I also mentioned that there are several people from outside the United States. When I get the go ahead from him, I will PM each person with the contact information for the Atty and what he needs from you to move this action forward.

I have not spoken with ||bit. I do not know where they are at.

Mobius. Perhaps, we should communicate. There are at least two potential problems if we pursue separate similar charges. PM me your contact info if you want to discuss those and any other ideas. It might turn out that we endorse working with your lawyer or you can join with the lawyer we have identified. It doesn't matter a lot to me, my loss is not great. I just don't like seeing this bASIC fiasco just get ignored and everyone lose. So, no sense in dividing ourselves this early. Better to work as one, than be divided at any level. This will also be important when it comes to distributing lawyer costs or any other cost(s) that might come up.

||bit



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veil|     PRIVACY     
     WITHOUT COMPROMISE.       
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|   NO ICO. NO PREMINE. 
   X16RT GPU Mining. Fair distribution.   
|      The first Zerocoin-based Cryptocurrency       
   WITH ALWAYS-ON PRIVACY.   
|



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March 06, 2013, 06:34:56 AM
 #166

Any updates yet?

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March 06, 2013, 08:14:54 AM
 #167

Any updates yet?

Not sure about Mobius. But I should be talking with one of the guys from here tomorrow about a lawyer update. No promises on revealing that here though. I know it's slow. I don't push things. I'm kinda keeping tabs. Also, Mobius never contacted me, maybe he missed my message above or doesn't want to talk group mergers or other options.

I think what will happen from the people I know is there will be a private thread off the forums. Public invite will be posted in this thread. And people wanting to group up will probably be called to verify basic identity (i.e. screening out people without an actual claim). For now, maybe you can just find your receipts and scan them (or screen shot them). And maybe a page with minimal contact info, and save it all into one pdf file, or just zip it. Have that ready for when there comes a time to compile everyone into a nice little army for the lawyers to serve. If there ends up being two or three different groups of people with different lawyers, they will probably require that much anyway.





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veil|     PRIVACY     
     WITHOUT COMPROMISE.       
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|   NO ICO. NO PREMINE. 
   X16RT GPU Mining. Fair distribution.   
|      The first Zerocoin-based Cryptocurrency       
   WITH ALWAYS-ON PRIVACY.   
|



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March 06, 2013, 01:50:17 PM
 #168

I sent a PN to Mobius a few day ago, but received no reply..

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March 06, 2013, 02:58:26 PM
 #169

hi,

if there is any coordinated action from EU citizens against BTCFPGA I will participate on it. Order #1438, $8,589, paid via wire transfer, no refund yet. I ran out of patience.

thanks,
 

any other refund discourse maybe through the bank?

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March 08, 2013, 09:01:30 AM
 #170

Mobius and Bits have joined? Which do I choose?  Huh
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March 08, 2013, 04:42:42 PM
 #171

Mobius and Bits have joined? Which do I choose?  Huh

No. Mobius never communicated with me on anything. I'm not the one driving this. Just opened the discussion thread. However, if people I've spoken with in PM or by phone want to move on what they have learned from a lawyer, then I can help guide that along by posting how/where to go. And screen some of the people. BTW: It's Friday, let's see if Tom actually does pay refunds today or not. Refer to the thread that it looks like he started March 3rd in the 'Custom Hardware' forum titled 'Friday Refunds'.



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veil|     PRIVACY     
     WITHOUT COMPROMISE.       
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|   NO ICO. NO PREMINE. 
   X16RT GPU Mining. Fair distribution.   
|      The first Zerocoin-based Cryptocurrency       
   WITH ALWAYS-ON PRIVACY.   
|



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March 11, 2013, 01:06:58 AM
 #172

Poll closed.
-----------
Those owed by bASIC: Are you willing to pursue group legal action to recover property? This would require you provide evidence (a receipt) & contact info. Select member(s) would deliver it to a lawyer. Info would be deleted on request or cancellation.

Absolutely! (Yes!)    37 (49.3%)
Yes, but who are you guys?!    23 (30.7%)
Unsure. I want my stuff back, but I might just call it a loss all the same.    5 (6.7%)
No, I wouldn't trust anyone here anymore.    5 (6.7%)
No way! Tom is going to deliver! I just know it!    5 (6.7%)

Total Voters: 75



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neotrix
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March 11, 2013, 03:13:38 AM
 #173

Poll closed.
-----------
Those owed by bASIC: Are you willing to pursue group legal action to recover property? This would require you provide evidence (a receipt) & contact info. Select member(s) would deliver it to a lawyer. Info would be deleted on request or cancellation.

Absolutely! (Yes!)    37 (49.3%)
Yes, but who are you guys?!    23 (30.7%)
Unsure. I want my stuff back, but I might just call it a loss all the same.    5 (6.7%)
No, I wouldn't trust anyone here anymore.    5 (6.7%)
No way! Tom is going to deliver! I just know it!    5 (6.7%)

Total Voters: 75


It is mainly meaning "Yes" we would like to pursue a group legal action but we would like to know who you are (organizer of the whole action) so I'm sure I can send you my btc and they will be used for this action ( Btw I'm not a customer of basic...)

Crypto-trade.com : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149458.0
https://koddos.com and http://kovpslayer.com.  "Bitcointalkdiscount" to get 10% discount recurring.
davidspitzer
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March 11, 2013, 05:10:14 PM
 #174

I am baffled as to why he would run with the coins considering the massive uptick in price?

If he indeed did not convert them to USD, it seems he would easily have funds to pay back everyone and still profit from some basic arbitrage.

I see people want their 20,30,etc. BTC, but he could make a case easily to state he offered the product pricing in "USD" and merely "accepted" bitcoins as a payment option at current conversion rates at time of sale.

This would satisfy any court in the world and it seems he could settle all and still make out.

I don't know if this helps anyone's pain, but I did get a credit card refund and since I'm currently getting a divorce and stuck with my own debts, that refund has made a pretty crappy situation much easier than losing nearly $27,000.

For the record, I initiated my refund last November.

So...at least you're not getting a divorce with young children to think about.

Bets of luck to everyone here, I hope you guys get your money back.

Most likely an action for restitution will be applicable here:

The basic purpose of restitution is to achieve fairness and prevent the Unjust Enrichment of a party. Restitution is used in contractual situations where one party has conferred a benefit on another party but cannot collect payment because the contract is defective or no contract exists. (compensatory damages)

The goal of restitution is to restore the non-breaching party to his or her pre-contract position or to "restore them" to their position. The court would normally not be interested in speculative gains or opportunity costs associated with the holding of funds, but would rather attempt to restore the non-breaching party for the the amount in value at the time the contract was entered.

The most likely valuation of the contract breach would be the value of bitcoins when the contract was entered into. If the non-breaching party sent in 100 bitcoins in, at the then present value of $7 per bitcoin, they would be entitled to $700 worth of bitcoins in return plus any incidental damages( costs incurred from legal fees or other reasonable sources needed to recover from the breached contract) and Consequential damages - lost wages, etc

If this person did indeed hold all the bitcoins, he could have easily converted them usd and covered all of the breached contracts and still had extra. Now the court may find issue with him benefiting from a willful breach so they may assign consequential damages or even special damages in that area but all of that is speculative based on the court and subject to a factual debate.
100%digital
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March 11, 2013, 05:43:40 PM
 #175

many thanx for your explanation of breach of contract. from what i understand as long as we can prove the intrinsic value of bitcoin, this case could be won with little effort. however the drafting of documents needed to file suit against Tom may prove costly -especially is he mounts any kind of defense (one has to assume Tom's retained a lawyer). Or you can try to sue him via small claims in his county (oswego) 1000.00 max Sad

I know its a super lame cause for EFF (as they have much more serious concerns), but I think they could help, at least provide some insight.

...if all is lost, perhaps some nifty/shady way to drown Tom in legal defense?
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March 11, 2013, 05:51:43 PM
 #176

many thanx for your explanation of breach of contract. from what i understand as long as we can prove the intrinsic value of bitcoin, this case could be won with little effort. however the drafting of documents needed to file suit against Tom may prove costly -especially is he mounts any kind of defense (one has to assume Tom's retained a lawyer). Or you can try to sue him via small claims in his county (oswego) 1000.00 max Sad

I know its a super lame cause for EFF (as they have much more serious concerns), but I think they could help, at least provide some insight.

...if all is lost, perhaps some nifty/shady way to drown Tom in legal defense?

You could all file a small claims suit  - if you can justify jurisdiction for your case in your local court - did the contract for sale include any arbitration clause or other legal forum selection? If you can get personal jurisdiction in your local court then he would have to show up or risk getting a default judgement. 50 or so small claims would definitely tie him in a bad way

here is a blurb about jurisdiction: 

Personal Jurisdiction Personal jurisdiction is based on territorial concepts. That is, a court can gain personal jurisdiction over a party only if the party has a connection to the geographic area in which the court sits. Traditionally, this connection was satisfied only by the presence of the defendant in the state where the court sat. Since the late nineteenth century, notions of personal jurisdiction have expanded beyond territorial concepts, and courts may gain personal jurisdiction over defendants on a number of grounds. However, the territorial basis remains a reliable route to establishing personal jurisdiction.

A person who has a civil claim may file suit in a court that is located in his or her home state. If the defendant lives in the same state, the court will have no trouble gaining personal jurisdiction. The plaintiff must simply serve the defendant with a summons and a copy of the complaint that was filed with the court. Once this is accomplished, the court has personal jurisdiction over both the plaintiff and the defendant. If the defendant lives outside the state, the plaintiff may serve the defendant with the process papers when the defendant appears in the state.

If the defendant lives outside the state and does not plan to re-enter the state, the court may gain personal jurisdiction in other ways. Most states have a Long-Arm Statute. This type of statute allows a state court to gain personal jurisdiction over an out-of-state defendant who (1) transacts business within the state, (2) commits a tort within the state, (3) commits a tort outside the state that causes an injury within the state, or (4) owns, uses, or possesses real property within the state.
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March 11, 2013, 09:16:23 PM
 #177

Quite aside, yet on topic.

This thread has 179 posts with 7080 views to date. Why is there only 12 votes total in the poll? I'm finding this tidbit rather odd.

Luke-Jr
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March 11, 2013, 09:30:16 PM
 #178

This thread has 179 posts with 7080 views to date. Why is there only 12 votes total in the poll? I'm finding this tidbit rather odd.
Maybe because not everyone wants to sue Tom?

You'd be getting nothing if any other business folded... at least he's trying to refund everyone.

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March 11, 2013, 09:32:22 PM
 #179

This thread has 179 posts with 7080 views to date. Why is there only 12 votes total in the poll? I'm finding this tidbit rather odd.
Maybe because not everyone wants to sue Tom?

You'd be getting nothing if any other business folded... at least he's trying to refund everyone.

Did he file for bankruptcy protection?
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March 11, 2013, 09:38:21 PM
 #180

This thread has 179 posts with 7080 views to date. Why is there only 12 votes total in the poll? I'm finding this tidbit rather odd.
Maybe because not everyone wants to sue Tom?

You'd be getting nothing if any other business folded... at least he's trying to refund everyone.
Did he file for bankruptcy protection?
Maybe he should have. Obviously trying to send customers refunds ASAP isn't making people happy.

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