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Poll
Question: For those owed by bASIC: How much would you be willing to contribute to costs to recover a maximum of $1000/each from bASIC to be considered settled.
No deal. I'm owed a lot more than that. - 14 (23%)
$10 - 2 (3.3%)
$20 - 1 (1.6%)
$30 - 1 (1.6%)
$40 - 0 (0%)
$50 - 8 (13.1%)
$100 - 5 (8.2%)
$200 - 3 (4.9%)
$500 - 2 (3.3%)
$750 - 0 (0%)
$1000 - I just want justice. - 13 (21.3%)
more - It's all principle at this point. - 12 (19.7%)
Total Voters: 61

Pages: « 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 »  All
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Author Topic: LEGAL COURSE of ACTION Discussion --- bASIC / BitcoinASIC  (Read 20726 times)
agath
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February 13, 2013, 11:26:14 AM
 #61

You might think so, but the reality of the matter is that I am agath, well known IRC person superstar extraordinaire.  Angry So is the poster six posts above. Also the one 19 posts below.

I think that this behaviour says much about the bitcoin community, and anyway I take this as an experience on how to deal with it, for my future projects.

Writing here, I just kept the promise I made to Tom, and I really don't gain nor lose anything whether you (and all the others) believe me or not.

I would be sad if Tom will not honor his word with you as he did with me. I am afraid that if you are so aggressive, you only make things worse.

In my opinion it's better to try to understand his situation, try to re-establish communication, and work with him on a plan that allows him to refund everyone.
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February 13, 2013, 11:31:02 AM
 #62

work with him on a plan that allows him to refund everyone.


That plan has been brought to his attention several times. It's called the Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.
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February 13, 2013, 11:41:59 AM
 #63

In my opinion it's better to try to understand his situation, try to re-establish communication, and work with him on a plan that allows him to refund everyone.

Unfortunately, Tom communicates only with new users, that just appear, get a full refund and then maybe disapear. Things start to change when the first long term users start to post their refund transactions. However I don't think there will be any BTC refund without someone to convince Tom that he cannot keep the scammed bitcoins.
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February 13, 2013, 12:18:14 PM
 #64

I can't believe it.

I just received the wire transfer from Thomas on my bank account.

So he isn't a liar.
...

Your refund is not proof that Tom is not a liar.
Here is proof:
Everybody lies.  Tom is somebody.  Therefore, Tom is a liar.
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February 13, 2013, 12:30:36 PM
 #65

I repeat that I am not Tom ...

Just because you repeat it doesn't make it true.  Send some proof.
What is your real name?
Post a childhood photo.
What is your native language?
Are you a homosexual?  Is that legal in your country?
Do you have pets?
Post a picture of one of your pets.
Post an image of your electric bill.
Is your mother disappointed in the company you keep?
What is the ultimate resolution of the Israel - Palestine conflict?

Only the real agath would know all these things.
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February 13, 2013, 12:45:48 PM
 #66

I repeat that I am not Tom, and I am quite well known on IRC (freenode) since before the whole BTCFPGA thing. I opened this thread because I promised to leave a feedback on the forums after I received the funds. Who knows me can confirm it.

I don't hide that I became more than concerned, if not scared, until last night. I hope Tom will refund everyone, he proved to me that he is not a liar.

Can you post proof of your refund? Redacted of course Smiley

| Operating electrum.be & us.electrum.be |
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February 13, 2013, 01:08:18 PM
 #67

As of now total voters 85 and total value $646,600+

 Shocked

AVALON-ASIC(Batch #2) Order #3xx3 made on February 18, 2013. Order status: completed(Mining Now).
Gridseed Dual Miner (01/Mar/2014) Order#17-#18 with Badman0316 | Order Status: completed(Mining Now).
BTC Address : 1DcYbWHmpyJHbnec2A6J4zNy5f1kdEtXFj
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February 13, 2013, 01:14:57 PM
 #68

(2) What is the estimated collective amount of the claims, or how to determine this? (a lawyer would probably want to know this)
Update: Poll indicates at least $609,500 taken.

@||bit `Stolen` better describes the situation. We will never see our money back but I'll say revenge will be sweater.
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February 13, 2013, 02:51:46 PM
Last edit: February 13, 2013, 03:49:19 PM by Evan
 #69

About BTC only, it seems to me that if Tom never sold the bitcoins, AND if bitcoins are referred to it as simply "property", then it might be no different than saying Tom has accepted any kind of  property, and that he would have to return the property. But you might be right, and the point is noted.
No. The products were priced in USD, BTC was simply used as way of transferring funds.  Tom owes us USD, although it can be repaid with BTC.

This is correct.

Also Damages awarded in Court are always in $ not property... eg I if i stole your car, i am not awarded by the court a car, I am awarded funds in the value of the car.

RE: EFF, If someone wanted to draft a letter to them I have a friend that was defended by them. After explaining BTC to him, and the situation, he is more than willing to pass the letter to the group he knows with in EFF.

So, sending this letter can help a lot.



Spoke to about 14 lawyers.

1 said he is interested and would be willing to sit down with me for a consult, but before the sit down; Who are ALL of the members of this lawsuit, (eg need a comprehensive list of people defrauded by Tom, and his LLC, with address, emails, phone numbers, amount in USD of the fraud, and also If we win, if they will allow BTC in lieu of USD if possible), Where is Tom's residence? Where is the LLC located?  All relative conversations to promises, and so on.

Do we know anything about Tom's bank or financial institution? If we wired funds to him this under US Law may of constituted wire fraud, and is a criminal charge. Do we desire to get the Feds involved? If we allow the Feds to go after him, this isn't going to get us any $$$ but this could make our day in court easier.



As for paying for lawyers.... We either pay based on hourly rates (somewhere between $100-250/hr) or we offer the lawyer a % of the total funds recooped.

Is anyone BTC Savey can can look at total BTC received by Tom? Can we look at this and estimate how many orders were placed?


Bit we ought to make some Google Surveys to start collecting the information.

BTW: As of right now the thread that gives me hope we can get this into a US or International court is:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2094887/Dutch-teen-brutally-beaten-online-game-possessions.html

A Dutch teenager was beaten up and threatened with a knife after a row about virtual possessions in the popular online fantasy game RuneScape.

The 13-year-old boy was attacked because he 'picked up' an amulet and mask while playing, which two other teenagers wanted as well.

They kicked him and brandished a knife, while forcing him to log onto RuneScape and relinquish the objects.

Although the assault happened in 2007, and the two attackers were convicted in 2009, one of them appealed to the Dutch Supreme Court.

But the Netherlands' highest court upheld the theft conviction.

The suspect's lawyer had argued the amulet and mask 'were neither tangible nor material and, unlike for example electricity, had no economic value.'

But the Court said the virtual objects had an intrinsic value to the 13-year-old gamer because of 'the time and energy he invested' in winning them while playing the game.


I am poor, but i do work for Coin Smiley
1PtHcavXoakgNkQfEQdvnvEksEY2NvwaLM
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February 13, 2013, 07:54:22 PM
Last edit: February 13, 2013, 08:24:08 PM by ||bit
 #70

Evan.
Will you private message me with your phone number. I'd like to make sure that you aren't Tom Undecided. LOL! Just kidding (mostly), but I would like to discuss/know more about the lawyer, and some ways to establish a basis of trust with anyone that wants to join with a claim. There is personal info involved, and understandably, many that would want their property back won't want to disclose their identities so easily.

||bit



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February 13, 2013, 08:19:05 PM
 #71

In my opinion it's better to try to understand his situation, try to re-establish communication, and work with him on a plan that allows him to refund everyone.

unfortunately there is not too many people able to handle this situation the way you described..
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February 13, 2013, 08:26:53 PM
 #72

Around $600 owed here. ~$700 if you count the money lost in CC refunds due to bank fees.

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February 13, 2013, 10:27:50 PM
Last edit: February 13, 2013, 10:37:57 PM by ||bit
 #73


--- Poll Closing Soon ---
Last chance to take the poll. Results so far:

About how much does bASIC owe you? (this might help estimate total property claims)
$   600    11 (11.7%)
$ 1,100    22 (23.4%)
$ 1,700    3 (3.2%)
$ 2,200    12 (12.8%)
$ 3,300    10 (10.6%)
$ 4,400    7 (7.4%)
$ 5,500    1 (1.1%)
$ 11,000    4 (4.3%)
$ 16,500    2 (2.1%)
$ 22,000    10 (10.6%)
More than $ 25,000    12 (12.8%) [Note: This choice was added about a day after the poll started]
Total Voters: 94

Total owed based on those polled to present: $728,600

||bit



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veil|     PRIVACY     
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|   NO ICO. NO PREMINE. 
   X16RT GPU Mining. Fair distribution.   
|      The first Zerocoin-based Cryptocurrency       
   WITH ALWAYS-ON PRIVACY.   
|



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February 13, 2013, 10:55:12 PM
 #74

(2) What is the estimated collective amount of the claims, or how to determine this? (a lawyer would probably want to know this)
Update: Poll indicates at least $609,500 taken.

@||bit `Stolen` better describes the situation. We will never see our money back but I'll say revenge will be sweater.
is it made of wool?

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nbtcminer
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February 13, 2013, 11:04:40 PM
 #75

(2) What is the estimated collective amount of the claims, or how to determine this? (a lawyer would probably want to know this)
Update: Poll indicates at least $609,500 taken.

@||bit `Stolen` better describes the situation. We will never see our money back but I'll say revenge will be sweater.
is it made of wool?

Not to troll you (I do apologize in advance for the weird sounding post) but every time I see your name I think I'm seeing "NachoLibre" and a picture of Jack Black pops up in my head of him saying whatever you are posting lol.

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February 13, 2013, 11:40:54 PM
 #76

(2) What is the estimated collective amount of the claims, or how to determine this? (a lawyer would probably want to know this)
Update: Poll indicates at least $609,500 taken.

@||bit `Stolen` better describes the situation. We will never see our money back but I'll say revenge will be sweater.
is it made of wool?

Tom will find out, but yes mostly made of wool..
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February 14, 2013, 02:30:06 AM
 #77


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||bit
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February 14, 2013, 02:38:35 AM
 #78

(2) What is the estimated collective amount of the claims, or how to determine this? (a lawyer would probably want to know this)
Update: Poll indicates at least $609,500 taken.

@||bit `Stolen` better describes the situation. We will never see our money back but I'll say revenge will be sweater.
is it made of wool?

Not to troll you (I do apologize in advance for the weird sounding post) but every time I see your name I think I'm seeing "NachoLibre" and a picture of Jack Black pops up in my head of him saying whatever you are posting lol.


PuertoLibre was responding to oceans - not me.

||bit



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|   NO ICO. NO PREMINE. 
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GenTarkin
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February 14, 2013, 04:13:59 AM
 #79

700k, man thats a shitload of money...ouch

GenTarkin's MOD Kncminer Titan custom firmware! v1.0.4! <--- CLICK HERE
Donations: bitcoin- 1Px71mWNQNKW19xuARqrmnbcem1dXqJ3At || litecoin- LYXrLis3ik6TRn8tdvzAyJ264DRvwYVeEw
||bit
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February 14, 2013, 06:12:04 AM
 #80

700k, man thats a shitload of money...ouch

More now. See the updates on the original post.

||bit



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veil|     PRIVACY     
     WITHOUT COMPROMISE.       
▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂▂
|   NO ICO. NO PREMINE. 
   X16RT GPU Mining. Fair distribution.   
|      The first Zerocoin-based Cryptocurrency       
   WITH ALWAYS-ON PRIVACY.   
|



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