A letter from Avalon

[shmadz]

We would like to take this time to warn you not to use Bitcoin addresses that you do not own, including but not limited to the following: InstaWallet, exchanges such as MtGox and others.

When will this madness end?

Bitcoin transactions do not have the concept of a "from" address.

A few services like SatoshiDICE, BitLotto, etc. send winnings to an address that was used as an input in the wager and there are regularly occurring new reports of people losing their wagers by sending from Mt. Gox or other hosted (shared) EWallet service.

This practice should not be adopted by merchants and payment processors.   Bitcoin has no concept of a from address.  Please don't proceed with any approach that assumes that there is.

Mister Gornick, could you please elaborate or link an explanation of this? I was recently trying to seach on this subject and came up empty.

if I send bitcoins, how do I prove that these bitcoins came from me?

many thanks to anyone who can solve this riddle for me (and if I can successfully figure this out, perhaps a small ((very small, I'm bitcoin broke atm)) donation

thanks in advance

--shmadz

[1714908393]

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[1714908393]

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[1714908393]

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[iCEBREAKER]

The Avalon team would like to apologize, first and foremost, for the poor performance that you may have experienced during the sales of batch two of the Avalon units.

And after only a week of letting customers squirm in a pit of FUD?  You're too kind!
 

"Somebody had to be the first person to eat a crab."

Avalon is the first company to use a 'shopping cart' on the 'internet?'  No wonder there were so many unforeseeable problems; it was simply destined to be a giant fiasco.

We switch payment gateway and eCommerce solution each batch of orders

What on earth persuaded you to switch from a working solution to a WordPress hack?

we at Avalon however are not playing any favorites.

No favorites.  Except JG and the BF.  Got it.  Seems legit.
 

We have ultimately decided not to refund the 0.05-bitcoin partial orders that have resulted from a series of errors

Scams usually don't refund orders either.

We would like to take this time to warn you not to use Bitcoin addresses that you do not own, including but not limited to the following: InstaWallet, exchanges such as MtGox and others.

A little late for that, isn't it?
 

The nature of Bitcoin makes it separate from human interference and devoid of an centralized architecture. If the order database has been incomplete or compromised, then a fail-safe could be utilized to refund every transaction to their original input address. By using third party systems such as the ones listed above however, you give up the control of your own coins, and you then run the risk of your refunds returning to their input addresses. This defeats the purpose of Bitcoin. You will also not be able to prove original ownership of these coins. Our terms of sale will be updated to reflect this before batch two re-opens for the remainder 300+ units.

Blah blah blah techno babble excuses makes customers liable for Avalon's mistakes.  Because Bitcoin.  And standing on Principle.

once they and other higher-priority matter are addressed and done, we will then reopen order for batch two.

IOW, we still don't have our act together.



 

We do not have a date for reopening orders on batch two.

[rocks]

We have ultimately decided not to refund the 0.05-bitcoin partial orders that have resulted from a series of errors, and allowed customers to complete their transactions out of good faith as many used third party services where refunds were not possible.

Really??? This is news to me. I've had a partial payment open with then, and have received ZERO replies to my Avalon support ticket nor emails. Seriously guys you have like 100-200 people to respond to, 1 day should be plenty to handle this.

We would like to take this time to warn you not to use Bitcoin addresses that you do not own, including but not limited to the following: InstaWallet, exchanges such as MtGox and others.
 
The nature of Bitcoin makes it separate from human interference and devoid of an centralized architecture. If the order database has been incomplete or compromised, then a fail-safe could be utilized to refund every transaction to their original input address. By using third party systems such as the ones listed above however, you give up the control of your own coins, and you then run the risk of your refunds returning to their input addresses. This defeats the purpose of Bitcoin. You will also not be able to prove original ownership of these coins. Our terms of sale will be updated to reflect this before batch two re-opens for the remainder 300+ units.

The arrogence coupled with the outright misunderstanding of bitcoin here is absolutely astounding.

Bitcoin absolutely does NOT have the concept of a "from" address. It is perfectly valid to pay a merchant using a transfer from InstaWallet, etc. To say otherwise is absured. Relying on from addresses for your mechant website is a problem on the merchant's side, not on the customers side.

I'm begining to believe Avalon does not have the competency to develop a working ASIC with good enough yields, if this is their childish attitude and they can't follow-up with a mere 100 customers...

[ab8989]

We would like to take this time to warn you not to use Bitcoin addresses that you do not own, including but not limited to the following: InstaWallet, exchanges such as MtGox and others.... By using third party systems such as the ones listed above however, you give up the control of your own coins.... This defeats the purpose of Bitcoin.

When thinking philosophically what is the fundamental difference that when buyers are using 3rd party systems like MtGox it is wrong and defeats the purpose of bitcoin, but when seller uses 3rd party systems like WalletBit it is great?

When thinking practically what is the fundamental difference that when buyers are using 3rd party systems like MtGox and in doing so stumble onto a minor inconvenience that prevents Avalon from choosing one from a group of several possible avenues of action demanding that suddenly bitcoin network transactions work in a way it was never intended to work it is a huge problem, but when a seller is uses a 3rd party system like WalletBit and it completely fucks up the whole process because of incompetence in the 3rd party system implementation and from Avalon in the selection and evaluation process of choosing the 3rd party system it is actually hugely good thing for which Avalon should be praised for?

[bittenbob]

Really??? This is news to me. I've had a partial payment open with then, and have received ZERO replies to my Avalon support ticket nor emails. Seriously guys you have like 100-200 people to respond to, 1 day should be plenty to handle this.

All partially paid orders from 2012-02-02 have a deadline of 2013-02-13 17:00 EST to complete payment. All orders which have not been paid in full will be refunded to the sending address unless otherwise instructed. Payment instructions can be obtained and return addresses can be given to WalletBit support at http://support.walletbit.com.

Please contact WalletBit support immediately.

[Elokane]

Really??? This is news to me. I've had a partial payment open with then, and have received ZERO replies to my Avalon support ticket nor emails. Seriously guys you have like 100-200 people to respond to, 1 day should be plenty to handle this.

All partially paid orders from 2012-02-02 have a deadline of 2013-02-13 17:00 EST to complete payment. All orders which have not been paid in full will be refunded to the sending address unless otherwise instructed. Payment instructions can be obtained and return addresses can be given to WalletBit support at http://support.walletbit.com.

Please contact WalletBit support immediately.

How does that help? I've sent you emails, opened support tickets and sent you multiple PMs only to receive no response.

[greyhawk]

But but but butbutbut I'm allergic to crabs. 

[Elokane]

But but but butbutbut I'm allergic to crabs. 

SHUT UP AND EAT YOUR DINNER

[organofcorti]

But but but butbutbut I'm allergic to crabs. 

There are creams and lotions you can get for that. So I've heard, anyway.

[Stephen Gornick]

if I send bitcoins, how do I prove that these bitcoins came from me?

If you sent from Bitcoin-Qt (or any other client in which you have the private key, ... such as MultiBit, Electrum, or Blockchain.info/wallet) you can use the Bitcoin-Qt client to digitally sign a message to prove ownership as nobody could do that except someone with the private key for that address.

If you sent from a hosted (shared) E-Wallet, such as from Mt. Gox, Instawallet, Coinbase, Paytunia, etc, then you are pretty much out of luck as far as being able to prove that the payment came from you.

How to prove that the sender for a payment was truly me?
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4411.0

[wknight]

All partially paid orders from 2012-02-02 have a deadline of 2013-02-13 17:00 EST to complete payment. All orders which have not been paid in full will be refunded to the sending address unless otherwise instructed. Payment instructions can be obtained and return addresses can be given to WalletBit support at http://support.walletbit.com.

Please contact WalletBit support immediately.

How does that help? I've sent you emails, opened support tickets and sent you multiple PMs only to receive no response.

That is a pure lie. Otherwise prove it with a support ticket number. Walletbit has helped at least a dozen people I know with the Avalon Asic order now. Does spread lies.

[wknight]

Basically Avalon has noted how they will be conducting business going forward. Take it as it is. If you like to know if your order went through ok you need to contact http://support.walletbit.com

If your looking for more information. Customer contact. ButterflyLabs might be a better purchase for you.

Avalon is a small group of people and they would like to keep it that way.

At this time they have Until March 1st to ship all Batch 1 orders. If they ship all of these orders by March 1st they have met their deadline. They are focused on meeting deadlines. ButterflyLabs have missed deadlines but have customer service.

You choose on who you spend your money with going down the road.

[Dalkore]

^^^^  I agree, I would rather them focus their efforts on shipping Batch #1 and Batch #2 by their deadlines period.  He stated "no news is good news" as we need to take it at face value that they are on schedule and have focused their resources on meeting these goals. 

[MonsterZero]

^^^^  I agree, I would rather them focus their efforts on shipping Batch #1 and Batch #2 by their deadlines period.  He stated "no news is good news" as we need to take it at face value that they are on schedule and have focused their resources on meeting these goals. 

you're not concerned about the 53 units they said they shipped out by January 28th?  At least 16 days in the mail now and not a peep.

[Dalkore]

^^^^  I agree, I would rather them focus their efforts on shipping Batch #1 and Batch #2 by their deadlines period.  He stated "no news is good news" as we need to take it at face value that they are on schedule and have focused their resources on meeting these goals. 

you're not concerned about the 53 units they said they shipped out by January 28th?  At least 16 days in the mail now and not a peep.

Where did they state this exactly?   I know they gave an estimate on how many would ship per week/day and what their hard deadline was, the deadline is what matters, they are dealing with many logistical issues including CNY, international shipping and customs along with any internal issues with the product that they may be tightening up.  At this point, I sent my money and I have to take it on faith/calculated risk.   I knew what I was getting into when I ordered.   

In closing:

Jesse Livermore (1920's) once said: "Sometimes it is hard to sit tight and be right"

[wknight]

^^^^  I agree, I would rather them focus their efforts on shipping Batch #1 and Batch #2 by their deadlines period.  He stated "no news is good news" as we need to take it at face value that they are on schedule and have focused their resources on meeting these goals. 

you're not concerned about the 53 units they said they shipped out by January 28th?  At least 16 days in the mail now and not a peep.

We have no idea where those 53 units went. Its VERY likely these 53 units are either people that dont go to this forum or even plan to post that they have their units. Hundreds if not thousands of people stay away from the forums and other social aspects. They have every right to keep private on what they have for mining. There is no proof they haven't sent these 53 units.

Realistically no one has any right to bitch until March 1st. Unless of course they said we shipped YOUR product and never proved they did. I have not seen this case anywhere.

This is just the facts here.

[fcmatt]

^^^^  I agree, I would rather them focus their efforts on shipping Batch #1 and Batch #2 by their deadlines period.  He stated "no news is good news" as we need to take it at face value that they are on schedule and have focused their resources on meeting these goals. 

you're not concerned about the 53 units they said they shipped out by January 28th?  At least 16 days in the mail now and not a peep.

We have no idea where those 53 units went. Its VERY likely these 53 units are either people that dont go to this forum or even plan to post that they have their units. Hundreds if not thousands of people stay away from the forums and other social aspects. They have every right to keep private on what they have for mining. There is no proof they haven't sent these 53 units.

Realistically no one has any right to bitch until March 1st. Unless of course they said we shipped YOUR product and never proved they did. I have not seen this case anywhere.

This is just the facts here.

bitsyncom stated those 53 were mailed and had the best chance to get out of the country.
and yes.. most people on this forum were the ones who ordered. i highly doubt at least one forum
member is not in that batch UNLESS it was just to 1-2 large customers who bought many.

[needbmw]

bitsyncom stated those 53 were mailed and had the best chance to get out of the country.
and yes.. most people on this forum were the ones who ordered. i highly doubt at least one forum
member is not in that batch UNLESS it was just to 1-2 large customers who bought many.

https://www.btcguild.com//halloffame.php

Rank   User   Estimated Speed
1   67117   1,471.86 GH/s

[fcmatt]

bitsyncom stated those 53 were mailed and had the best chance to get out of the country.
and yes.. most people on this forum were the ones who ordered. i highly doubt at least one forum
member is not in that batch UNLESS it was just to 1-2 large customers who bought many.

https://www.btcguild.com//halloffame.php

Rank   User   Estimated Speed
1   67117   1,471.86 GH/s

the rumor is that is friedcat and his project. nothing to do with avalon.

but please correct me if i am wrong.

[creativex]

Very unlikely to be 22 Avalons hashing on one account. Almost surely ASICMiner at this point.