51% attack on premined altcoin

[MaximC]

Hello, I am not sure if I understand 51% attack well.

Is it possible have 51% attack on premined altcoin or not?

Does it depends on ownership or mining machines?

Thank you.

[pedrog]

It's about the majority of processing power, here:

https://bitcoin.org/en/glossary/51-percent-attack

https://learncryptography.com/cryptocurrency/51-attack

[MaximC]

It's about the majority of processing power, here:

https://bitcoin.org/en/glossary/51-percent-attack

https://learncryptography.com/cryptocurrency/51-attack

In premined coin too?
Is there scheme to prevent this situation?
Maybe proof-of-stake...

Thanks

[pedrog]

It's about the majority of processing power, here:

https://bitcoin.org/en/glossary/51-percent-attack

https://learncryptography.com/cryptocurrency/51-attack

In premined coin too?
Is there scheme to prevent this situation?
Maybe proof-of-stake...

Thanks

It doesn't matter if there was a premine, if it is proof-of-work it can be '51 percented'.

[MaximC]

Thank you.
You answer me question.

But little help for me: What about proof-of-stake and 51% attack?

[pedrog]

Thank you.
You answer me question.

But little help for me: What about proof-of-stake and 51% attack?

I don't think processing power is relevant to proof-of-stake.

[MaximC]

Thank you for clarify me question.

[shorena]

Thank you for clarify me question.

Its always 51% of what makes the network secure, for proof of stake its 51% of the coins. This can be old coins, as well as premined coins unless there are defenses against that (e.g. hardcoded checkpoints). For proof of work its 51% of the computing power, for proof of X this is 51% of X.

[kiklo]

PoW 51% of mining capacity
As long as their ASICS have 51% or more of the processing power
* Currently the top 3 Chinese BTC Mining Pools , if they were combined would be over 60%. *

PoS 51% is a little harder to calculate.
You need 51% of the Staking Coin Weight, so if almost no one is staking , it would be possible to pull off a 51% attack with much less the 51% of the entire amount, you only need 51% of the staking amount.

PoS coins with Total Number of a billion or more are less susceptible to the 51% due to the fact they will have more coins staking than a coin with only 1 million or less.

Here is the twist , if your PoS coin Weight increases with Age like most original PoS coins.
Even if Someone purchased 51% of the coins, he would not be able to pull this attack off, until his coin's age increased his coin's weight to match the current staking coins.
But if he buys up that many , he will drive the price sky high and this will cause more people to stake, and plus with every stake his % of coin weight decreases.
(Chaos Factor: Even thru you know how many coins there are, you don't know their weight or when they will be staking.)

One example is ZEIT , we currently have ~6 billion coins staking at different coin weights, even if someone purchased every single ZEIT on every exchange all the way of up to 1 ZEIT =1 BTC , he still would only have ~500 million coins and it would be 20 days before he could even try to stake.
Current staking coins would outnumber him 12 to 1 even before coin age was considered.  

 

[r0ach]

Oh my fucking god, the 4am infomercial ZEIT salesman is back again.  It's like Vince from Shamwow on repeat.

[kiklo]

Oh my fucking god, the 4am infomercial ZEIT salesman is back again.  It's like Vince from Shamwow on repeat.

Don't you have some RAID you should be drinking,
or arguing with TPTB.
Unlike you , I use Real World Examples, instead of the Fantasy Theories that float around in that mess you call a mind.



 

FYI:
So you have no logic to refute anything I said, and are now trying a different tactic.
Poor Pitiful r0ach.  

[robelneo]

PoW 51% of mining capacity
As long as their ASICS have 51% or more of the processing power
* Currently the top 3 Chinese BTC Mining Pools , if they were combined would be over 60%. *

PoS 51% is a little harder to calculate.
You need 51% of the Staking Coin Weight, so if almost no one is staking , it would be possible to pull off a 51% attack with much less the 51% of the entire amount, you only need 51% of the staking amount.

PoS coins with Total Number of a billion or more are less susceptible to the 51% due to the fact they will have more coins staking than a coin with only 1 million or less.

Here is the twist , if your PoS coin Weight increases with Age like most original PoS coins.
Even if Someone purchased 51% of the coins, he would not be able to pull this attack off, until his coin's age increased his coin's weight to match the current staking coins.
But if he buys up that many , he will drive the price sky high and this will cause more people to stake, and plus with every stake his % of coin weight decreases.
(Chaos Factor: Even thru you know how many coins there are, you don't know their weight or when they will be staking.)

One example is ZEIT , we currently have ~6 billion coins staking at different coin weights, even if someone purchased every single ZEIT on every exchange all the way of up to 1 ZEIT =1 BTC , he still would only have ~500 million coins and it would be 20 days before he could even try to stake.
Current staking coins would outnumber him 12 to 1 even before coin age was considered.  

 

This is a good read about proof of stakes coins I always prefer proof of stakes than POW because of it is much secure and energy conservation and every one can participate even a low quality pc or laptop can stake a pos wallet..

[Liquid71]

It's about the majority of processing power, here:

https://bitcoin.org/en/glossary/51-percent-attack

https://learncryptography.com/cryptocurrency/51-attack

In premined coin too?
Is there scheme to prevent this situation?
Maybe proof-of-stake...

Thanks

See the link in my sig, Proof of stake is only as secure as the exchanges the coin trades on

[kiklo]

It's about the majority of processing power, here:

https://bitcoin.org/en/glossary/51-percent-attack

https://learncryptography.com/cryptocurrency/51-attack

In premined coin too?
Is there scheme to prevent this situation?
Maybe proof-of-stake...

Thanks

See the link in my sig, Proof of stake is only as secure as the exchanges the coin trades on

Hmm,
8 million vericoins (VRC), or about 30% of the total coins were stolen.
So there total # of coins was under 30 million,
Kind of the reason coins with a Billion or more are safer.
High Marketcap  $7 Million

However they dropped from $7 million to a little over 1 million.

Market Cap    Volume (24h)    Available Supply
$ 1,116,228         $ 2,395             27,529,434 VRC

So it appears the user lost ~7 times.

Compared with Litecoin a PoW coin
High point $750 Million
Market Cap    Volume (24h)    Available Supply
$147,929,648        $ 774,725            45,403,376

So 750/148 = 5.06

So Litecoin (PoW) Has lost ~5 times it's Marketcap, and Vericoin has lost 7 times it's market cap.

Want to know why you are still better off holding Vericoin than Litecoin,
* Litecoin you have to sell the coins to make any fiat, and then that its , no more litecoins and you just lost 5 times your investment.
* Vericoin you can sell only your stake whenever , and keep the principle , this means it will always earn something ,
and from there you can
A. Wait for the price to recover and be higher before selling.
or
B. Only sell the stakes FOREVER, and make it into a life long income.  

Proof of Stake is the only way to make money in the long run , buying Sterile BTC or Tokens that can not make more of themselves is Pure Speculation.

Example: It is like a farmer buying a herd of cattle that are sterile. He only makes money if the market is higher when he has to sell, if the market is down when he has to sell , he just wasted his Time & Money, where if he buys a herd of cattle that can produce Offspring, he is able to keep his original amount of cattle and sell off any excess , therefore giving him a
Lifetime of Revenue verses a One-time Completely Speculative Time Sensitive Investment

 

FYI:
Crypto is still a Small Niche Market , it will only grow with time.
That Growth will cause the price of the coins to skyrocket when the general public enters crypto, which is still a few years off.
PoS coins Network can be kept running for substantially lower costs , which is why most of them can easily survive the lean years before the massive influx of capital arrives.

FYI2:
I do agree it was a bad decision on vericoin part to rollback the blockchain, what they should have done was just implement either a checkpoint server or a rolling checkpoint , so that after a certain number of blocks even 51% staking power would be unable to affect anything prior to the checkpoint.
Rolling checkpoints are the preferred option as it keeps your coin decentralized where as a checkpoint server would centralize your coin.