Advice On Bitcoin Miners.

[notlist3d]

Now onto my next question. Were in the UK are reputable sellers of miners? or is this going to be a shipping job for outside the UK?

There are so many sites advertising them knowing which ones are reputable is a bit of a stab in the dark,

It is best to get direct from manufactuer if buying in bulk.  Most EU sellers add vat to your price so paying a lot.  If you are a true business and can get part of vat back your much better to order direct (I think).

Can I ask I see a lot of equations with 0 cost on electricity.  What is your electricity with running in UK?  There are not a lot of miners there.

[ScottishSecurity]

Now onto my next question. Were in the UK are reputable sellers of miners? or is this going to be a shipping job for outside the UK?

There are so many sites advertising them knowing which ones are reputable is a bit of a stab in the dark,

It is best to get direct from manufactuer if buying in bulk.  Most EU sellers add vat to your price so paying a lot.  If you are a true business and can get part of vat back your much better to order direct (I think).

Can I ask I see a lot of equations with 0 cost on electricity.  What is your electricity with running in UK?  There are not a lot of miners there.

Hi, if you read back we have a deal with a large factory here in the UK they are supplying us with the location and electricity for the venture. at the moment buisness rates for electricity in the uk are the following..

small business 15,000 to 25,000 kWh

    8.68p/kWh unit price with a standing charge of 23.7p/day (£86.51 annually)
    9.07p/kWh and 24.23p/day (£88.44)
    9.33p/kWh and 21.21p/day (£77.42)
    9.03p/kWh and 23.61p/day (£86.18)
    9.89p/kWh and 22.46p/day (£81.98)
    9.58p/kWh and 21.28p/day (£78.77)

Depending on the supplyer this is typical for a small to medium sized buisness.

Most larger buisnes's pay around the 2.7p/kWh to around the 3.0p/kWh. depending on who the supplyer is there is a standing chargy per day of between 29 and 35p per day..these rates are if you draw more than 100,000 kWh each year...

this is last years gov.uk advice to the energy markets.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/415778/qep_mar_15.pdf

here is a good calulator for UK power prices. but you must also factor in this is for home useage so price is very high,

At the moment the factory spends around £36k on electric each month. I do not have the figures for there useage or draw from the grid to hand but I will post them when I have access to them again..

So for us we are in a good position here. We only have to outlay for the equipment, security, and day to day running of the site thanks to a great deal we struck with the owner of the company.

Thanks.

Scottish Security.

[mwizard]

For anyone with free electricity it is likely to be pointless thinking about buying new equipment.  The better electrical efficiency on the newer hardware is not relevant to you.

You are likely to be better off buying second hand older miners, for example S3s and S4s.

Fundamentally all that matters for you is the dollars per terahash of whatever you buy.  Electricity efficiency is not relevant.

So if you really have 'free' electricity I would be looking for every cheap second hand miner in the UK and just compare them based on dollars per terahash.  

Note - This ignores the question on whether the factory owner expects a positive return on providing the electricity.  If he does the electricity is not 'free'.  

[notlist3d]

For anyone with free electricity it is likely to be pointless thinking about buying new equipment.  The better electrical efficiency on the newer hardware is not relevant to you.

You are likely to be better off buying second hand older miners, for example S3s and S4s.

Fundamentally all that matters for you is the dollars per terahash of whatever you buy.  Electricity efficiency is not relevant.

So if you really have 'free' electricity I would be looking for every cheap second hand miner in the UK and just compare them based on dollars per terahash.  

Note - This ignores the question on whether the factory owner expects a positive return on providing the electricity.  If he does the electricity is not 'free'.  

Yes and no to pointless.   Most likely user has a limited amount of electricity.  So efficiency can effect hashing speed in total.  A upgrade from S3 to S5 if priced right they might make more monthly due to higher hashrate from more efficient gear.

If there is no limit on amount of electricity your right it would not make a lick of difference.  But most free electricity users are limited in amount.

[ScottishSecurity]

As far as I am aware we have no "limits" on how much we can use, But I think we should aim for efficiency also, We could just buy older equipment correct and hash away drawing as much from the grid as we can but to be honest that is not a very ethical way to conduct business, 

I do care about climate change and the effect on the planet,  And I would be foolish of us to just care solely about profit and have no care for the planet or how much electricity we use even thought it is free for us to use we still need to show responsibility not only to our host but to mother earth.

[IanQuinn]

I am sure that facility has a limited amount of power it can draw, nothing is unlimited.  Also if your numbers are correct, they are drawing anywhere from 3 to 4 MW of power already.  

They reason they want a percentage if to cover their expenses, and if you are creating more expenses then what your will be giving them, friend or not they will say get the @%*# out of here.

As a business, why would I let someone create additional expenses, that reduces my profit, and just put money into their hands.  I don't see it.

[ScottishSecurity]

I am sure that facility has a limited amount of power it can draw, nothing is unlimited.  Also if your numbers are correct, they are drawing anywhere from 3 to 4 MW of power already.  

They reason they want a percentage if to cover their expenses, and if you are creating more expenses then what your will be giving them, friend or not they will say get the @%*# out of here.

Thanks but that't not 100% accurate, They do want a % of the coins yes.. but we are playing a long game here not a short term game,  

They do not need to make any profit from the farm, there is a end goal we are both working towards here. There is no chance the will ask us to leave. we have been working towards this for a long time now and they know that the electricity cost might out weigh the profit in the short term and possibly long term. But people are not thinking about down the line.  from what i've seen there will be bitcoin farms till about 2040/41 when the coins are (in theory) to all be mined out..

So there is still a good few years of mining available..

Ive notice many people are trying to dampen out spirit here and say waste of time.. Not sure if this is because they don't want more farms on the network or trying to scare us out of the idea..

like I said we both have a end game for this idea and we are being fully supported by the factory owner wee have a contract in place that stipulates that we will not incur any charges or fees for use of there premises or for power usage no matter on the amount of usage,

This has been drafted up by our solicitor and is currently in the hands of the factory's legal team to be signed off.

Again I said we are covering all basis here so there are no nasty surprised and they are fully aware that the possibility of electrical usage being higher than return is a possibility..

Thanks

[IanQuinn]

They do not need to make any profit from the farm, there is a end goal we are both working towards here. There is no chance the will ask us to leave. we have been working towards this for a long time now and they know that the electricity cost might out weigh the profit in the short term and possibly long term. But people are not thinking about down the line.  from what i've seen there will be bitcoin farms till about 2040/41 when the coins are (in theory) to all be mined out..

Is this when you want to stop mining, as halving continues into the 22nd century (2110-2140)

Not trying to talk you out of anything, but IMHO you are screwing over the owner of the factory (you said friend), by using their power, creating an expense to them, and you making the profit.  I sure hope their legal team sees through this.  If it is a friend have them match your £20,000 and either buy bitcoin, or look into something more ethical in a bitcoin investment.

[RichBC]

Ive notice many people are trying to dampen out spirit here and say waste of time.. Not sure if this is because they don't want more farms on the network or trying to scare us out of the idea..

like I said we both have a end game for this idea and we are being fully supported by the factory owner wee have a contract in place that stipulates that we will not incur any charges or fees for use of there premises or for power usage no matter on the amount of usage,

This has been drafted up by our solicitor and is currently in the hands of the factory's legal team to be signed off.

Again I said we are covering all basis here so there are no nasty surprised and they are fully aware that the possibility of electrical usage being higher than return is a possibility..

Thanks

I do not think that is the case.... A lot of people come here we grand plans, an expectation of getting rich quick, often combined with an apparently large budget and "free electricity".

The community here, which BTW I am still very new to & also UK based, is both very knowledgeable and helpful, but has learnt to be mistrusting of these plans which usually come to nothing. They also tend to throw a bit of a wet blanket on plans just to bring people back down to earth because a lot of people have only looked at some of the costs and the upside of the equation with very little regard for for the real costs and risks involved.

Now not in any way saying this is you, but you fit some of the profile.... What would be of most use in terms of the community helping more is for you to share some of what you are not telling us about your situation? That is to why this factory is so keen on mining with no regard to the electricity cost, why it is acceptable for the returns to be less than the costs, and what it is about the long game that you are playing that makes this an attractive proposition?

Rich

 

[ScottishSecurity]

Ive notice many people are trying to dampen out spirit here and say waste of time.. Not sure if this is because they don't want more farms on the network or trying to scare us out of the idea..

like I said we both have a end game for this idea and we are being fully supported by the factory owner wee have a contract in place that stipulates that we will not incur any charges or fees for use of there premises or for power usage no matter on the amount of usage,

This has been drafted up by our solicitor and is currently in the hands of the factory's legal team to be signed off.

Again I said we are covering all basis here so there are no nasty surprised and they are fully aware that the possibility of electrical usage being higher than return is a possibility..

Thanks

I do not think that is the case.... A lot of people come here we grand plans, an expectation of getting rich quick, often combined with an apparently large budget and "free electricity".

The community here, which BTW I am still very new to & also UK based, is both very knowledgeable and helpful, but has learnt to be mistrusting of these plans which usually come to nothing. They also tend to throw a bit of a wet blanket on plans just to bring people back down to earth because a lot of people have only looked at some of the costs and the upside of the equation with very little regard for for the real costs and risks involved.

Now not in any way saying this is you, but you fit some of the profile.... What would be of most use in terms of the community helping more is for you to share some of what you are not telling us about your situation? That is to why this factory is so keen on mining with no regard to the electricity cost, why it is acceptable for the returns to be less than the costs, and what it is about the long game that you are playing that makes this an attractive proposition?

Rich

 

i'm sorry but I don't think I fit that profile at all, I have been involved with bitcoin and scotcoin since they started, I know lots about bitcoin, I also run my own cyber security and cctv company which I have posted here and links below.  I'm not some daft 15 year old I am in my late 30's..

I understand just by reading here that the forum has a issue with dreamers and people trying to bump there post counts. But not eveyone should be tarred with the same brush.

I also understand that my situation is very "sceptical" from the outset but I'm sure in time when things start moving and orders are places and photos of the build and setup start to arrive that will subside.

as for the long game, I want to keep some of the details to myself. would be very foolish of me to give any competitors a head start on my idea. but in the fullness of time these will all become clear.

and the answer to your question about the factory is privacy.. I am more than happy to talk about my part but I am in no position to be telling private information from another party.. (data protection) It would be unfair and unethical to be giveing information on the factory in a public forum and what there side of the deal is.. I am here to acquire info for my side of the project.  if the owner wishes to come forward and tell more than that is totally up to him..

as he is watching this thread

Thanks

http://scottishsecurity.net
https://facebook.com/ScottishSec
Twitter - @ScottishSecure

[RichBC]

i'm sorry but I don't think I fit that profile at all, I have been involved with bitcoin and scotcoin since they started, I know lots about bitcoin, I also run my own cyber security and cctv company which I have posted here and links below.  I'm not some daft 15 year old I am in my late 30's..

I understand just by reading here that the forum has a issue with dreamers and people trying to bump there post counts. But not eveyone should be tarred with the same brush.

I also understand that my situation is very "sceptical" from the outset but I'm sure in time when things start moving and orders are places and photos of the build and setup start to arrive that will subside.

as for the long game, I want to keep some of the details to myself. would be very foolish of me to give any competitors a head start on my idea. but in the fullness of time these will all become clear.

and the answer to your question about the factory is privacy.. I am more than happy to talk about my part but I am in no position to be telling private information from another party.. (data protection) It would be unfair and unethical to be giveing information on the factory in a public forum and what there side of the deal is.. I am here to acquire info for my side of the project.  if the owner wishes to come forward and tell more than that is totally up to him..

as he is watching this thread

Thanks

http://scottishsecurity.net
https://facebook.com/ScottishSec
Twitter - @ScottishSecure

I only said that you fitted part of the profile... You have only now shared that you have been involved with Bitcoin "since the start", but have a newbie account, Free electricity, and are only choosing to tell part of the story, etc. However trust me I and others are only trying to help and would love for you to be successful.

Everyone new here is given a hard time if they propose something which is out of the ordinary. Just take a look back at some of my early posts when I explained that I was able to undervolt an S5 and significantly improve it's efficiency. I was basically told prove it, post pictures, we do not believe you...

For a lot of us latecomers this is a hobby that pays for itself if we are lucky, however it's a very interesting field to be involved in and we get a lot of enjoyment from it, which mostly involves helping others and sharing information and experience. I am not asking for any information that is not yours to share, but the more information we have the more helpful we can be.

I just wish that I had been involved from the start, because if so I would have made a lot of money. 


Rich

[ScottishSecurity]

i'm sorry but I don't think I fit that profile at all, I have been involved with bitcoin and scotcoin since they started, I know lots about bitcoin, I also run my own cyber security and cctv company which I have posted here and links below.  I'm not some daft 15 year old I am in my late 30's..

I understand just by reading here that the forum has a issue with dreamers and people trying to bump there post counts. But not eveyone should be tarred with the same brush.

I also understand that my situation is very "sceptical" from the outset but I'm sure in time when things start moving and orders are places and photos of the build and setup start to arrive that will subside.

as for the long game, I want to keep some of the details to myself. would be very foolish of me to give any competitors a head start on my idea. but in the fullness of time these will all become clear.

and the answer to your question about the factory is privacy.. I am more than happy to talk about my part but I am in no position to be telling private information from another party.. (data protection) It would be unfair and unethical to be giveing information on the factory in a public forum and what there side of the deal is.. I am here to acquire info for my side of the project.  if the owner wishes to come forward and tell more than that is totally up to him..

as he is watching this thread

Thanks

http://scottishsecurity.net
https://facebook.com/ScottishSec
Twitter - @ScottishSecure

I only said that you fitted part of the profile... You have only now shared that you have been involved with Bitcoin "since the start", but have a newbie account, Free electricity, and are only choosing to tell part of the story, etc. However trust me I and others are only trying to help and would love for you to be successful.

Everyone new here is given a hard time if they propose something which is out of the ordinary. Just take a look back at some of my early posts when I explained that I was able to undervolt an S5 and significantly improve it's efficiency. I was basically told prove it, post pictures, we do not believe you...

For a lot of us latecomers this is a hobby that pays for itself if we are lucky, however it's a very interesting field to be involved in and we get a lot of enjoyment from it, which mostly involves helping others and sharing information and experience. I am not asking for any information that is not yours to share, but the more information we have the more helpful we can be.

I just wish that I had been involved from the start, because if so I would have made a lot of money. 


Rich

Thanks I fully understand that I have a new account here. Not everyone is "forum keen" but I thought before I started I would come to the place that is well known to have large scale miners active in the community.

I also agree that late coming to the party has its drawbacks.  But its not dampened my spirits to setup and and make some coins..

We also need to think about the future and price of coins.. after the next halving I expect the price to hike again like it did when we hit the record levels!

But we will wait and see what happens.

I look forward to keeping you all updated and becoming a valued and regular member in the community..

Also if anyone is interested in Scotcoin project then please do get in touch.

here is some market data for the Scotcoin project

https://coinmarketcap.com/assets/scotcoin/

[tmfp]

As I said earlier in the thread, good luck.
All I will add is that a business plan based on free electricity in the hands of a third party is not built on the firmest of foundations.
Without that free power, you're just another guy with a bunch of unprofitable machinery.

[ScottishSecurity]

As I said earlier in the thread, good luck.
All I will add is that a business plan based on free electricity in the hands of a third party is not built on the firmest of foundations.
Without that free power, you're just another guy with a bunch of unprofitable machinery.

Thank you, that is fully understood.

But its not really in the hands of a third party and there has been lengthy and drawn out discussions and meetings leading up to this point.  And a solid business model is in place.  People also need to remember that there are many other crypto's available for us to "work" on too. We are not limiting ourselfs to just one currency but as this is a btc talk forum we kept out discussion to that topic.


I look forward to keeping you all updated..

Thanks!

[tertius993]

Why not just buy BTC?

£20k will get you about 64 BTC today.

If I have done the calcs correctly 70 TH/s will mine about 5-6 BTC a month until the halving (3 months?) and then drop to less than 3.

Even assuming no change in difficulty, it'll take nearly 18 months to mine that many. Probably actually two to three years allowing for difficulty increases and problems with equipment etc..

[ScottishSecurity]

Why not just buy BTC?

£20k will get you about 64 BTC today.

If I have done the calcs correctly 70 TH/s will mine about 5-6 BTC a month until the halving (3 months?) and then drop to less than 3.

Even assuming no change in difficulty, it'll take nearly 18 months to mine that many. Probably actually two to three years allowing for difficulty increases and problems with equipment etc..

As I said already in a previous post.  I have no interest in buying btc with this money.

and BTC is not the only crypto we have our eyes on at the moment,

In a previous post I explained that once we have proved we can open, run and operate a farm safely then we possibly will have deeper pockets backing us to buy some rather nice equipment.

I think I need to lock this topic or we will be going round in circles over and over with the same questions.

18 months is nothing really when you think about the amount of time left before all the coins are mined out.. people need to note this fact too.

They also need to see that not all the big farms will see to the end of the mining. I am sure some will go offline in the future, Leaving opportunity for others to come in and work away on the rest of the coins to be mined.

Thanks all for the great info, I have made a big list of questions that I will be putting to our team in the near future.

Thanks..

Scottish Security.

[notlist3d]

As I said earlier in the thread, good luck.
All I will add is that a business plan based on free electricity in the hands of a third party is not built on the firmest of foundations.
Without that free power, you're just another guy with a bunch of unprofitable machinery.

Thank you, that is fully understood.

But its not really in the hands of a third party and there has been lengthy and drawn out discussions and meetings leading up to this point.  And a solid business model is in place.  People also need to remember that there are many other crypto's available for us to "work" on too. We are not limiting ourselfs to just one currency but as this is a btc talk forum we kept out discussion to that topic.


I look forward to keeping you all updated..

Thanks!

You are wrong on not limiting yourself to one currency though.  Almost all the gear you will buy I would guess would be SHA256... so almost always you mine BTC.  There are very few scrypt asics compared to sha256.  Also if you meant altcoins like GPU.... that is a whole nother can of worms.

If you base it on free electricity and don't get that, it kills all figures you have almost.   But also you are not realistic if you think you will be mining altcoins I dont think, I think you will find the most asics mining SHA256 as a limitation on that idea.

[tertius993]

Why not just buy BTC?

£20k will get you about 64 BTC today.

If I have done the calcs correctly 70 TH/s will mine about 5-6 BTC a month until the halving (3 months?) and then drop to less than 3.

Even assuming no change in difficulty, it'll take nearly 18 months to mine that many. Probably actually two to three years allowing for difficulty increases and problems with equipment etc..

As I said already in a previous post.  I have no interest in buying btc with this money.

and BTC is not the only crypto we have our eyes on at the moment,

In a previous post I explained that once we have proved we can open, run and operate a farm safely then we possibly will have deeper pockets backing us to buy some rather nice equipment.

I think I need to lock this topic or we will be going round in circles over and over with the same questions.

18 months is nothing really when you think about the amount of time left before all the coins are mined out.. people need to note this fact too.

They also need to see that not all the big farms will see to the end of the mining. I am sure some will go offline in the future, Leaving opportunity for others to come in and work away on the rest of the coins to be mined.

Thanks all for the great info, I have made a big list of questions that I will be putting to our team in the near future.

Thanks..

Scottish Security.

Well, you actually said you saw "no point" in buying Bitcoin, but you also said you wanted coins for another project "down the line" this way you get the coins now and you can start that other project sooner.

I agree 18 months is nothing compared to the total mining life, but it isn't going to take 18 months is it? That is a best case estimate most likely it will take far longer. And it is a long time for a business to be looking at a depreciating asset that is returning less and less every two weeks. Difficulty has basically doubled since December - just 4 months - with new hardware expected I doubt if it will slow down.

Also remember any hardware will wear out over time - faults and failures will require replacement, plus the hardware will become outdated as the technology moves on - even 500 TH in 4 years will seem like nothing.

I guess it depends what you need to get back from the £20k?  If anything.

[ScottishSecurity]

Thanks for your input..

I am locking the topic now as I have all the info I needed.

thanks all again! and I look forward to posting updates in the near future!!