Moneypot or Bitdice

[Dajackal]

Im investing in LIR
LetItRide

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1511021.0;

I feel like getting in during the beginning of a site offers much more upside potential then getting in once the site is established. If you get in once it's established then you're at the mercy of the site and their offer. None of the already established players will give away such a large portion of their profits to new investors. They may have back in the day when they were new but not anymore.
Like with LIR you can share in 25% of house profits and the devs are using 10% of house profits to buy LIR from the market. Show me another dice site that offers even close to that kind of return potential.  

With so many ways to make money its a nobrainer to invest in LIR over some of the other sites.

LIR sockpuppets / trolls back at it again. Read the title of the thread before posting.

Im replying to you to have an open and honest discussion. If you are going to call every supporter of LIR a sockpuppet or troll then you might as well put me on the ignore list.

First bolded part: This is false. Technically, you are always at the mercy of the site not running off on you. Assume in a hypothetical scenario where no casino runs off. This would mean that you can pull your funds off of the established sites at anytime, since they do not sell profit share, you are simply parking your funds in their bankroll. With LIR, you are at the mercy of the site because you cannot pull your funds out, you need LIR to generate profit.

You dont understand me or what I said there. Im not talking about the chances of a casino running off and taking our money. Im strictly speaking about offers that would be made to invest. Once a casino is established they have less reason to offer an investor a high pay out because they already have the clients and most probably a bankroll. If you invest in a start up then you're more likely to get a better investment opportunity because the startup is looking to build a client base and bankroll so therefore should make a better investment offer then one that's already established.

To the underlined portion: This is very false. LIR gives the least back to stakeholders of any site, this is basic math and not arguable. Every other site offers investors a range of 30-90% of the house edge. LIR gives 15%+ a buy back (which is NOT necessarily profit, simply a return of capital. The only way it is profit is if "Y" (buy back price) - "X" (original investment price) has a remainder. The remainder is profit). If you are a top 10 holder, you get an additional 10%. So basically, assuming you are a top 10 investor, you get 25% back. This is lower than everyone else.

I disagree with you here too. Firstly 25% is up for grabs, top ten or not makes no difference as the offer is there. Let me ask you a question. If I invested a lot into moneypot and was a top investor would I be entitled to a bigger cut of the profit then everyone else? I should be because my money will allow you to take bigger bets and earn bigger profits. Would moneypot set aside a % just for the top investors? I've looked over your site and I believe that answer to be no.

And yes, if I sell my coins back to the LIR team I can decide when and how much I want for them. If im in a rush I can sell them right away and probably just get back my money + a little bit but if I'm willing to stick it out and hold for a year or two, which is not uncommon anymore in crypto then I open up the possibility of making a much larger return selling the coins back to the team.
I want to also add that the LIR team has stated that if they decide to sell the business that they will use a % of the money they receive when selling the business to buying back all the coins on the market therefore giving me a chance to profit on the eventual sale of the site. Im pretty sure moneypot does not offer anything similar and if they sold the site for 10M as an example the investors aka bankrollers would get nothing when in fact it was them that allowed you to get to a point where selling the business is a possibility.

The way LIR investment works:
- You invest in profit share. You cannot pull your funds out at anytime (unlike any other publicly bankrolled casino other than CBTC)
- LIR uses 10% of profit to buy back tokens
- LIR pays 15% to holders
- LIR pays the top 10 coin holders an additional 10%
- If they sell their site, 35% of the purchase price goes to token holders

Some of that is incorrect as well. Yes it's true, its not like a normal bankroll where you can take out your btc at any time but it also offers 3 ways of getting paid plus an option to share in the sale of the site later down the line, and I also think the top 10 is only for investors not coin holders so if you buy a bunch of coins on the market and are a top 10 coin holder you wont get to share in that 10% its only for the investors as I understand it but it's still a little foggy so I'm going to ask the LIR dev team about this. What that means is I can invest, become a top 10 investor then proceed to sell all my coins on the market and still partake in the 10% as a top 10 investor. That is a HUGE bonus over all the other dice and gambling sites.

There is no added upside to investing in profit share in a casino then there is to bankroll it.

Casino "x" = profit share casino
Casino "y" = bankroll casino

Each has 100 BTC bankroll.

Casino "x" gives you 15% profit share (I will even assume casino is giving 15% of revenue instead of profit).
- 1000BTC volume * 1% HE = 1 BTC expected profit

Profit = 1 BTC
Investors get 15% of 1 BTC, or 0.15 BTC


Casino "y" gives you 90% of the EV
- 1000BTC volume * 1% HE = 1 BTC expected profit
Investors get 90% of 1 BTC, or 0.9 BTC

Obviously the percentage of the EV is not the only thing that matters, the real thing that matters is what gives you the greatest expected return which would be (volume * bankroll share of HE * your percentage of bankroll), sites that do more volume are more attractive options to investors.


Unless you think LIR is going to do several times the volume of every other casino, its a bad investment.

I do think that LIR will be one of the biggest players given the time to grow. They seem to be willing to innovate and offer new twists that have never been offered before in dice sites such as the ability to bet on the house winning over x amount of rolls, dice pvp tournaments ect.
 

Please take the time to read my reply and to let it sink in because the offer that LIR is making is much more advantageous to an investor then moneypot.

[AcoinL.L.C]

Please take the time to read my reply and to let it sink in because the offer that LIR is making is much more advantageous to an investor then moneypot.

I did read your reply. Clearly you cannot do simple math. Send me a message when LIR surpasses MoneyPot in profit and I will send you a few BTC for free  


Just to help out with the math (once again):

Assume somehow LIR manages to match MoneyPot in volume (which it won't):

100 BTC LIR

1000 BTC * 0.01 = 1 Expected profit

LIR investors = 0.15 BTC (since investors get 15% of profit)

100 BTC MP

1000 BTC * 0.01 = 1 Expected profit

MP investors = 0.30 BTC (since investors get 30% of the edge)

[Dajackal]

Please take the time to read my reply and to let it sink in because the offer that LIR is making is much more advantageous to an investor then moneypot.

I did read your reply. Clearly you cannot do simple math. Send me a message when LIR surpasses MoneyPot in profit and I will send you a few BTC for free 

LOL, are you stupid???
Its impossible to base your answer on math when LIR is not even operational yet.
To base it on math we at least need a sample of LIR's profits, amount wagered, users ect.
All we can base it on is projected ability to take market share and just based on their name I think they can take a lot from the existing players.
But I will look you up when the time comes and collect my free btc's. Thanks for making me such a generous offer. I appreciate it.

[Dajackal]

Please take the time to read my reply and to let it sink in because the offer that LIR is making is much more advantageous to an investor then moneypot.

I did read your reply. Clearly you cannot do simple math. Send me a message when LIR surpasses MoneyPot in profit and I will send you a few BTC for free  


Just to help out with the math (once again):

Assume somehow LIR manages to match MoneyPot in volume (which it won't):

100 BTC LIR

1000 BTC * 0.01 = 1 Expected profit

LIR investors = 0.15 BTC (since investors get 15% of profit)

100 BTC MP

1000 BTC * 0.01 = 1 Expected profit

MP investors = 0.30 BTC (since investors get 30% of the edge)

Seeing as though you added this I'll re reply.
You're not taking into account the 10% paid out off the top, nor are you taking into account the buyback of LIR from the exchange nor are you even considering the fact that when the site sells (if it does) we all get to share in that, while if you sell moneypot all the investors get is a pat on the back and a big thank you.

If you want to do the math, include the 10% off the top, include a potential purchase price and include the 10% buyback.

OK?

[AcoinL.L.C]

Please take the time to read my reply and to let it sink in because the offer that LIR is making is much more advantageous to an investor then moneypot.

I did read your reply. Clearly you cannot do simple math. Send me a message when LIR surpasses MoneyPot in profit and I will send you a few BTC for free  

LOL, are you stupid???
Its impossible to base your answer on math when LIR is not even operational yet.
To base it on math we at least need a sample of LIR's profits, amount wagered, users ect.
All we can base it on is projected ability to take market share and just based on their name I think they can take a lot from the existing players.
But I will look you up when the time comes and collect my free btc's. Thanks for making me such a generous offer. I appreciate it.

Actually, yes you can base it on math before LIR is operational.

Their profits are going to based on wagered. This is fact. There will be some variance, but if you are betting on the house greatly beating the EV you are a gambler, not an investor.

Simply saying "players are going to come play here" does not make it true. Especially with an impressive bankroll of 250 BTC and nothing to distinguish it from any other site.

Please take the time to read my reply and to let it sink in because the offer that LIR is making is much more advantageous to an investor then moneypot.

I did read your reply. Clearly you cannot do simple math. Send me a message when LIR surpasses MoneyPot in profit and I will send you a few BTC for free  


Just to help out with the math (once again):

Assume somehow LIR manages to match MoneyPot in volume (which it won't):

100 BTC LIR

1000 BTC * 0.01 = 1 Expected profit

LIR investors = 0.15 BTC (since investors get 15% of profit)

100 BTC MP

1000 BTC * 0.01 = 1 Expected profit

MP investors = 0.30 BTC (since investors get 30% of the edge)

Seeing as though you added this I'll re reply.
You're not taking into account the 10% paid out off the top, nor are you taking into account the buyback of LIR from the exchange nor are you even considering the fact that when the site sells (if it does) we all get to share in that, while if you sell moneypot all the investors get is a pat on the back and a big thank you.

If you want to do the math, include the 10% off the top, include a potential purchase price and include the 10% buyback.

OK?

Why would I include the 10% that goes to the top 10 investors (not to mention, that would still be less than every other site lol)? The majority of investors are not going to be top 10, thus they shouldn't be included for projections for the average joe.

I already mentioned the buy back. Buy back does not = 10% profit share. Your token is an asset, once you sell it you might have BTC, but you no longer have that asset, thus to calculate any profit on it you need to do BTC (price they pay you) - asset (what you paid for the token).

If MoneyPot sells, investors get their entire sum invested in the site back. Its not like their money vanishes. Meanwhile, when LIR sells you get 35% of the cut. How much do you think LIR would really sell for? Honest question. Say they end up raising 500 BTC. They would need to sell the site for about 1430BTC for token investors to break even. If you think the site will sell for that you shouldn't be investing in anything.

[Dajackal]

Please take the time to read my reply and to let it sink in because the offer that LIR is making is much more advantageous to an investor then moneypot.

I did read your reply. Clearly you cannot do simple math. Send me a message when LIR surpasses MoneyPot in profit and I will send you a few BTC for free  

LOL, are you stupid???
Its impossible to base your answer on math when LIR is not even operational yet.
To base it on math we at least need a sample of LIR's profits, amount wagered, users ect.
All we can base it on is projected ability to take market share and just based on their name I think they can take a lot from the existing players.
But I will look you up when the time comes and collect my free btc's. Thanks for making me such a generous offer. I appreciate it.

Actually, yes you can base it on math before LIR is operational.

Their profits are going to based on wagered. This is fact. There will be some variance, but if you are betting on the house greatly beating the EV you are a gambler, not an investor.

Simply saying "players are going to come play here" does not make it true. Especially with an impressive bankroll of 250 BTC and nothing to distinguish it from any other site.

Please take the time to read my reply and to let it sink in because the offer that LIR is making is much more advantageous to an investor then moneypot.

I did read your reply. Clearly you cannot do simple math. Send me a message when LIR surpasses MoneyPot in profit and I will send you a few BTC for free  


Just to help out with the math (once again):

Assume somehow LIR manages to match MoneyPot in volume (which it won't):

100 BTC LIR

1000 BTC * 0.01 = 1 Expected profit

LIR investors = 0.15 BTC (since investors get 15% of profit)

100 BTC MP

1000 BTC * 0.01 = 1 Expected profit

MP investors = 0.30 BTC (since investors get 30% of the edge)

Seeing as though you added this I'll re reply.
You're not taking into account the 10% paid out off the top, nor are you taking into account the buyback of LIR from the exchange nor are you even considering the fact that when the site sells (if it does) we all get to share in that, while if you sell moneypot all the investors get is a pat on the back and a big thank you.

If you want to do the math, include the 10% off the top, include a potential purchase price and include the 10% buyback.

OK?

Why would I include the 10% that goes to the top 10 investors (not to mention, that would still be less than every other site lol)? The majority of investors are not going to be top 10, thus they shouldn't be included for projections for the average joe.

I already mentioned the buy back. Buy back does not = 10% profit share. Your token is an asset, once you sell it you might have BTC, but you no longer have that asset, thus to calculate any profit on it you need to do BTC (price they pay you) - asset (what you paid for the token).

If MoneyPot sells, investors get their entire sum invested in the site back. Its not like their money vanishes. Meanwhile, when LIR sells you get 35% of the cut. How much do you think LIR would really sell for? Honest question. Say they end up raising 500 BTC. They would need to sell the site for about 1430BTC for token investors to break even. If you think the site will sell for that you shouldn't be investing in anything.

First, you dont even know what the HE is going to be. Could be 1% could be 5% or could be anywhere in the middle which means if you do your math at 1% and it ends up being 4% then your numbers are actually only 1/4 of the correct answer. And top 10 investor or not it still needs to be taken into consideration because you have no clue who may want to be a top 10 investor.

And they buyback does count, even if I sell my asset back to them it gives me another way of profiting. But at least we BOTH agree on one thing. If moneypot sells all the moneypot investors get is their btc back and a pat on the back, but if LetItRide sells the investors who helped LIR get to a level to where people are considering buying it actually share in the cut.

SO TLDR

You dont even know the HE so you cant do the math,
Selling an asset for btc is just another way for an investor to reap rewards.
If LIR sells the people who helped it become a sellable business actually get rewarded financially unlike moneypot.

LIR is a WAY better investment then moneypot any day of the week.

P.s. Im sure you know of a dice site that once sold for over 80k BTC.

It happened before and it can happen again!

[AcoinL.L.C]

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Goodluck with your site, and welcome to my ignore list.

[Dajackal]

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Goodluck with your site, and welcome to my ignore list.

No. You clearly dont and that's why you're putting me on ignore and ignoring my 100% accurate post above. It's ok. Run away like a little child but it wont help you.

[yudy]

i choose bitdice

dice game is easy game gambler , n much profit
and very fast , very fast profit or very fast lost

[2double0]

Moneypot is better, as they have many games popping out every now and then, and all are interesting TBH.
So, my vote goes for them.

[Daffadile]

Moneypot is better, as they have many games popping out every now and then, and all are interesting TBH.
So, my vote goes for them.

Yes strait ! I would rather trust stability then promises of wealth. Now lets enjoy our popcorn and watch these people fight over nothing xP

[BBHex]

i choose bitdice

dice game is easy game gambler , n much profit
and very fast , very fast profit or very fast lost

if that is the only reason you liked bitdice then i assume you didn't visit moneypot yet, try to visit moneypot and you will see many dice sites that offer different features. moneypot's dices is way better than bitdice IMHO

[Cresciuanto]

very honestly I have no experience in Moneypot  and in Bitdice. even though I want to do it and get experience in these two sites but I am not getting opportunity for. on other side I am doing gambling on sports and specially on cricket matches because I like cricket. it is my favorite. and I have too much experience in it.

[Capradina]

I think it depends how gamblers want to do what game. Because not all players have the same interests and desires. For me personally, I prefer the BitDice, because I like the game of dice than any other game. Indeed the moneypot gives an awful lot of games, but I don't like some games in there

[electronicfactura]

I have played for some good period of time on moneypot as gambler.I don't know anything about Bitdice as never gave any try there.If you have good amount of money then you should go for investment else doesn't have sense.I will suggest Moneypot because of personal experience with old management.Now I didn't play for good weeks.

[bithasher]

If we make comparison between both then on Moneypot's platform there are huge variety of gaming applications.There is diversity.Choice is your I see many people have supported and suggested different things in their way.I don't invest money because I don't have enough to perform well.I play gambling that without some specific site.

[minime0105]

Which site is better to invest in? I tried reading the rules for bitdice but got confused...

Well you can test it in a month, try sending half of your amount to invest at both sites and see which has more profit.
But for me, ill invest on bitdice,. they have good players that are regular bettors and not that high of a bankroll on investment yet, unlike on moneypot that has big bankroll on investments already.

[hua_hui]

I didnt invest in bitdice before so i dont really know how to compare both of them. But i know about moneypot. It is very trust-able and backed by high profile people. This makes me decided to invest in them even after the sale. Till now, i have not regret that i invested in them and i am very happy with the extra profit i get.

[LiQuidx]

If I had to choose between those two sites I'd go with Moneypot, It's reputable and a lot more bitcoins have been invested there. Good luck with the choice you will make either way.

[bithasher]

I have used Moneypot is past and still doing again. I have not used Bitdice at all yet so I am not in condition to give my opinion about that. Moneypot is best and I never had any type of problem with money. Moneypot is well known and is trustworthy in personal experience. I let my money in its wallet as online wallet too this is level of my trust on it.