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Author Topic: Silver oz price dipping to $29.70 and Bitcoin hitting $27.50, gap closing fast  (Read 5011 times)
Vandroiy
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February 19, 2013, 03:42:07 PM
 #21

- In a deflationary economy, the precise measure of submultiples needed, imply an exponential increased cost.
- In a big transaction, you need to expend a lot of time analizing every monetary unit involved, searching for counterfeited coins.
- You can't prove ownership without exposing them and yourself.

I don't agree on these last three points.

  • The block chain doesn't scale well -- it has O(n^2) in users when broadcasting transactions. In the end, extra infrastructure is needed. Operating cost always scales at least with the number of users and metals don't scale worse than that.
  • Analyzing for counterfeit coins works in log time to any desired precision. Just do random sampling, statistics does the rest. Thus, it's not the big transactions that are problematic.
  • You can't really prove ownership of a Bitcoin address either. I could pay some Silk Road dude to sign "I am a pink monkey" with some address of his; that doesn't mean Mr. pink monkey can spend any of his coins. Until the address participates in some sort of binding contract, it doesn't mean much.

I think Bitcoin's ability for block chain escrow/multisig/script contracts is a real plus. Quick payment on small scales isn't really its strength though. As soon as you get funds from and to some sort of payment processor, it can do these things much faster and much more efficiently. Bitcoin might be an interesting way to move funds to and from such providers though -- this helps stir competition and might prevent the payment processors from holding and possibly stealing savings.

I'd like to hold some silver in addition to BTC reserves. But I'm in Europe, so I'd have to pay tax on the purchase if it's silver -- not if it's gold. Whaaaat.
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February 19, 2013, 07:00:17 PM
 #22

...and then it's 29.5!
Too bad I had sold out at 27-something.
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February 19, 2013, 07:02:43 PM
 #23

So...gold next?  Grin
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February 19, 2013, 07:12:44 PM
 #24


  • The block chain doesn't scale well -- it has O(n^2) in users when broadcasting transactions. In the end, extra infrastructure is needed. Operating cost always scales at least with the number of users and metals don't scale worse than that.

Yes, I think that ultimately what will constrain the price is this issue.  Ppl will have to include high txn fees to get their block included.  This will finally open a niche for an alt-coin that specializes in small payments.  But an alt-coin that actually solves these issues (and throws in new features like additional securities -- aka colored coins) rather then just forking the bitcoin source base and tweaking some parameters is what is going to succeed.  Probably it will not replace bitcoin -- btc will be used like gold for large txns.
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February 19, 2013, 07:19:14 PM
 #25

Holliday, I was just looking at the same charts
Bitcoin is effectively at silver parity. Incredible!

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February 19, 2013, 07:23:19 PM
 #26

Is there someone with a reddit account who can get this link promoted?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=144383.msg1540335#msg1540335

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February 19, 2013, 07:27:48 PM
 #27

wow.
 Grin

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February 19, 2013, 07:33:55 PM
 #28

Having a party in my cubicle.

In October, a friend of mine got me a silver coin for my birthday. In December I gave him a bitcoin for his birthday (a physical one) and I said it would be worth more than the silver coin soon.

I texted the news this morning.
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February 19, 2013, 08:07:00 PM
 #29

^ Epic.
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February 19, 2013, 08:33:51 PM
 #30

Whilst "neat", does anyone actually think this really means anything?

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February 19, 2013, 08:35:51 PM
 #31

Whilst "neat", does anyone actually think this really means anything?

Kind of. I mean, it will certainly result in more exposure as people like to talk about "neat" things, and sometimes people even write articles about this sort of thing, which historically has bolstered the price of bitcoin.
ajk
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February 19, 2013, 08:50:03 PM
 #32

dude a currency that was made up 4 years ago is priced the same as one that has stood the test of time

this should seem significant especially if the price hold, if not go higher

anyone holding silver will probably be thinking why the fuck they have this shitty gray shit when they should  have awesome digital bitcoins!!!!!
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February 19, 2013, 08:56:25 PM
 #33

Good time to diversify a little bit and buy some metal.

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February 19, 2013, 09:01:24 PM
 #34

dude a currency that was made up 4 years ago is priced the same as one that has stood the test of time


No, it is not. That is my point. An ounce of silver is a completely arbitrary comparison point and has zero meaning other than symbolic. It's not like you can have an ounce of bitcoin.

With that said, I have been considering dropping some fiat into some junk silver. Unfortunately, I just put a bunch into steel & rubber and the government is about to come calling for its pound of flesh because I have a place to live.

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February 19, 2013, 09:04:13 PM
 #35

dude a currency that was made up 4 years ago is priced the same as one that has stood the test of time


No, it is not, that is my point. An ounce of silver is a completely arbitrary comparison point and has zero meaning other than symbolic. It's not like you can have an ounce of bitcoin.

An ounce is a typical portion to buy metals.
A bitcoin is a typical portion to buy bitcoin.

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notme
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February 19, 2013, 09:04:49 PM
 #36

dude a currency that was made up 4 years ago is priced the same as one that has stood the test of time


No, it is not. that is my point. An ounce of silver is a completely arbitrary comparison point and has zero meaning other than symbolic. It's not like you can have an ounce of bitcoin.

With that said, I have been considering dropping some fiat into some junk silver. Unfortunately, I just put a bunch into steel & rubber and the government is about to come calling for its pound of flesh because I have a place to live.

Right, 21 million bitcoins vs. roughly 42 billion ounces of silver.  When we get to 2000X the value of an ounce of silver, wake me up.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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February 19, 2013, 09:06:22 PM
 #37

Do you really think that the silver market started off at that price?

please when you actually think clearly wake everyone else up..

Oh wait were all already awake your the one that is in retarded dream land
ajk
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February 19, 2013, 09:10:58 PM
 #38

dude a currency that was made up 4 years ago is priced the same as one that has stood the test of time


No, it is not. that is my point. An ounce of silver is a completely arbitrary comparison point and has zero meaning other than symbolic. It's not like you can have an ounce of bitcoin.

With that said, I have been considering dropping some fiat into some junk silver. Unfortunately, I just put a bunch into steel & rubber and the government is about to come calling for its pound of flesh because I have a place to live.


I brought the point up of our world going to the digital age,

Who gives a shit about the ounce of silver being physical? the only reason that people view that block of gray junk as valuable is because the world knows of it

Bitcoin is no different than if the whole community here was using pooka shells or something as the currency, We (well most) believe that bitcoin has value, not only that we believe that bitcoin has alot more benefits than what is out there now,

Once more people realize this there is nothing stopping the price of bitcoin to be equivalent of the silver market in its own time


Apple during its run up had its bears, Anything in the world has people that disagree/dont believe in it, its just how the way the world woks there are those who disagree, but i believe in this case its only a matter of time before the world may see the true value of bitcoin

If im wrong oh well i lost money, I can make more of it.
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February 19, 2013, 09:19:22 PM
 #39

Do you really think that the silver market started off at that price?

please when you actually think clearly wake everyone else up..

Oh wait were all already awake your the one that is in retarded dream land

I have no idea what you are trying to say.  At first I assumed you were talking to me since I'm the one that mentioned waking up, but I'm having trouble understanding how your comments relate to anything I said.  It seems you're just attacking me again for no good reason.  If you would like to have a discussion, please drop the attitude and make your points clearly.

Now, what would you like me to clarify?  The only statement I made was pointing out that there are 2000x as many ounces of gold as there are bitcoins and that comparing one ounce to one bitcoin is an arbitrary comparison.  If you disagree, please explain why without the personal attacks.  If you do agree, please quit attacking me.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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ajk
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February 19, 2013, 09:33:27 PM
 #40

When did I ever compare 1 bitcoin to 1 ounce?

I was implying that comparing the 2 markets is a retarded point and ignoring bitcoin just because it is smaller is ignorant,

How long has gold/silver been around in this world in comparison to bitcoin? it has AGES of time before bitcoin

my point was that do you think that gold just started off at whatever X USD you said? no you clown it gradually made its way to where it is now, the stuff is constantly being mined and there is no real determined number of how much there is,

Unlike Gold and Silver, Bitcoin has a determined number of how many there will be in existance, (edit: We know a General Idea of how many there will be in the end), this is a huge factor on why i think if not now then in the end bitcoin will be worth so much more than it is,

 You can compare the 2 all you want and say that its a joke but my point is what is stopping bitcoin from reaching the markets that gold and silver is in its own time? nothing. Everyone involved that are the bigger players, (businesses and miners)are presumably here til the end

as I said, there are people who disagree with Everything in this world regardless of the subject, bitcoin is no different  

Edit:
I forgot to add in the beginning that I knew you would have trouble understanding, Clown
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