Avalon 6 Derping at 30C ambiant? -> Evap Cooling

[VirosaGITS]

So the days started to get a bit hotter and i noticed my Avalons derping horribly. They start and mine, then dont spin up the fan much, then when temp reach over 75C, the fan go 100% for a few minutes and stop hashing. Then do it over and over again.

https://i.imgur.com/qYA2R4s.png?1

You can see here the first one finish its cool down period and start hashing again, just by the time the second one stop mining and put fans full blast + stop hashing.

https://i.imgur.com/UjW6GQ6.png?1

The issue is rather intermittent, but only seem to happen when the ambiant is a bit hot. (30C @ intake)

[alh]

As I read your temp value, there are 3 values in a row: 43 47 50

As I understand it, the 1st of those three values is the temperature of the Controller (not the Pi) within the A6. When that exceeds 40C things get squirlly and it's usually on it's way to shutting down. That seem consistent with your observed behavior. You need to make sure the controller stays cool. Possible options:

1) Supply cooler air to the A6 intake (end with the PCIe power cables).

2) Some folks have considered laying the A6 on one side, possibly upside down.The controller is at the top.

3) Any obvious obstructions at either end for the fan?

4) Are you running either the Delta or  Sanyo Ace fan?

5) Are you pushing the input 12V to get a better hash rate?

The short summary is that the controller is TOO HOT (I think).

[HerbPean]

My ambient temps is always between 28-33 and I never had one issue with my AV6 BUT my first temperature never go over 41, currently at 39.

[VirosaGITS]

As I read your temp value, there are 3 values in a row: 43 47 50

As I understand it, the 1st of those three values is the temperature of the Controller (not the Pi) within the A6. When that exceeds 40C things get squirlly and it's usually on it's way to shutting down. That seem consistent with your observed behavior. You need to make sure the controller stays cool. Possible options:

1) Supply cooler air to the A6 intake (end with the PCIe power cables).

2) Some folks have considered laying the A6 on one side, possibly upside down.The controller is at the top.

3) Any obvious obstructions at either end for the fan?

4) Are you running either the Delta or  Sanyo Ace fan?

5) Are you pushing the input 12V to get a better hash rate?

The short summary is that the controller is TOO HOT (I think).

1) Can't, running A/C is not doable so i use outdoor air

2) Thats worth a try but it work just fine if i set the fan speed so that temp never reach 76C in the first place, so the controller protection preventing fan speed to raise seem kind of a bug, if thats it.

3) No they are being cooled fine and work fine (if the fan are set manually), its the automatic fan speed that is going haywire.

4) Stock, i think its Deltas

5) No its ATX PSU and they are underclocked to keep RPM at 3k (noise), if i set minimum fan speed over 3k they hash fine without the issue, but if its for example 2.8K when they reach 76C after a while, they shut down and go 100% fan speed, instead of raising the fan speed.

My ambient temps is always between 28-33 and I never had one issue with my AV6 BUT my first temperature never go over 41, currently at 39.

I dont know why the controller isint getting air or why it would prevent fans from spinning up, though.

[philipma1957]

the controller auto resets at 45C


that gear needs  a fast fan setting.  Since your first number is too hot

try 60 or 75 for the fan

this should keep the controller at a cooler temp.




Never never never never use auto fan settings.

[HerbPean]

the controller auto resets at 45C


that gear needs  a fast fan setting.  Since your first number is too hot

try 60 or 75 for the fan

this should keep the controller at a cooler temp.

Yeah mines never ramps up to full speed but they do ramp up rarely when it's very hot (not enough air flow).

I set my fans at 40% min.

[VirosaGITS]

the controller auto resets at 45C


that gear needs  a fast fan setting.  Since your first number is too hot

try 60 or 75 for the fan

this should keep the controller at a cooler temp.




Never never never never use auto fan settings.

Auto fan speeds are fine, the cutoff work well. You're even the one that recommended my settings a while back. Anyways.

The problem is the controller, which isint being cooled much, 2k or 5k RPM, it still overheat.

This is really annoying. And no one seem interested in buying these even though they have been available to buy for many weeks.

the controller auto resets at 45C


that gear needs  a fast fan setting.  Since your first number is too hot

try 60 or 75 for the fan

this should keep the controller at a cooler temp.

Yeah mines never ramps up to full speed but they do ramp up rarely when it's very hot (not enough air flow).

I set my fans at 40% min.

Seem the intake is just too high, there's no way for me to keep the controller under 45C on hot days.

[alh]

A couple of items to consider:

I am pretty sure that controller temp is NOT used in figuring out what speed to set the fan. I think it strictly the temperature of the hashing boards. Is this a Bug (maybe)? I think the 45C is strictly a protection limit to prevent damage to the controller. I wonder if perhaps the fan were drawing too much current that would heat up the controller?

I also don't know how the controller gets any airflow. Phil has cracked open an A6 and might be able to comment on the layout. If your miner warranty has expired, you might consider find a way to better cool the controller. If you were willing to open the case, maybe a small, quiet fan directed at the controller would help. We've all heard the "don't exceed 45C on the controller" warning. How hot is it ambient and how much difference do you have between ambient and 45C?

What are the "Max Frequency" value and the "Minimum Fan" values (using the cgminer config tab)? My experience with "Max Frequency" is that it really isn't a maximum at all, or the unit of measure is off. I've tried a a value of 250 as well as 500, and after a few hours of running, the hash rate is virtually the same.

Is there any airflow around the outside of the case? I ask since I think the case temperature might have a big impact on the controller temp. Just speculating here.

Just a couple of random ideas to consider.

[philipma1957]

the controller auto resets at 45C


that gear needs  a fast fan setting.  Since your first number is too hot

try 60 or 75 for the fan

this should keep the controller at a cooler temp.




Never never never never use auto fan settings.

Auto fan speeds are fine, the cutoff work well. You're even the one that recommended my settings a while back. Anyways.

The problem is the controller, which isint being cooled much, 2k or 5k RPM, it still overheat.

This is really annoying. And no one seem interested in buying these even though they have been available to buy for many weeks.

the controller auto resets at 45C


that gear needs  a fast fan setting.  Since your first number is too hot

try 60 or 75 for the fan

this should keep the controller at a cooler temp.

Yeah mines never ramps up to full speed but they do ramp up rarely when it's very hot (not enough air flow).

I set my fans at 40% min.

Seem the intake is just too high, there's no way for me to keep the controller under 45C on hot days.

my garage is 87f  and they run fine

But lets check and see if I have temps wrong.

my fans are set at 50.  my controllers are cool well under forty.

[VirosaGITS]

A couple of items to consider:

I am pretty sure that controller temp is NOT used in figuring out what speed to set the fan. I think it strictly the temperature of the hashing boards. Is this a Bug (maybe)? I think the 45C is strictly a protection limit to prevent damage to the controller. I wonder if perhaps the fan were drawing too much current that would heat up the controller?

I also don't know how the controller gets any airflow. Phil has cracked open an A6 and might be able to comment on the layout. If your miner warranty has expired, you might consider find a way to better cool the controller. If you were willing to open the case, maybe a small, quiet fan directed at the controller would help. We've all heard the "don't exceed 45C on the controller" warning. How hot is it ambient and how much difference do you have between ambient and 45C?

What are the "Max Frequency" value and the "Minimum Fan" values (using the cgminer config tab)? My experience with "Max Frequency" is that it really isn't a maximum at all, or the unit of measure is off. I've tried a a value of 250 as well as 500, and after a few hours of running, the hash rate is virtually the same.

Is there any airflow around the outside of the case? I ask since I think the case temperature might have a big impact on the controller temp. Just speculating here.

Just a couple of random ideas to consider.

Its clear its the controller stopping its job when it reach 45C and when the blades reach 76C it goes into full cooldown mode.

Thanks for the tips, i said what i said but whats really going on is, i'm in the process of moving to a new appartement and thus my setup for cooling these is not available.

The max freq really work for me, for instance if i set 100mhz the unit run almost fanless (@1.5TH/s for 2 A6), but the ambiant is over 30C and the intake seem to be 36C so inside the machine must be 40C, not much room for the controller.

I need to sell these, or buy an A/C.

[adaseb]

Yeah this week in Canada has a huge heat wave, pretty much had to shut down all my miners, just left the GPUs running since they are more profitable.

And A/C doesn't work either, maybe I need 2 of them running. But having the box fan at 100% seems to keep everything cool enough. But 30C ambient is not pleasant.

[philipma1957]

he could rotate the avalon 6  turn it upside down  the controller is where you plug in the four pin jack that goes to the

 rasp pi.

30 c = 82 f

the controller should not have an issue in a  82 f room.


https://i.imgur.com/p49AKoL.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/iLTYrRy.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/btbyebd.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5zi5S7V.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7Si9dFf.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/MwJRCpq.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/AyRau7e.jpg


so my temp in my garage is 89

I moved temp on top of miner it is 86

so my fans are on 50
my  volts are 11.9
my controllers are  33 to 37 c

your  volts are 12.1

your controllers are hotter due to the 12.1 volt reading

simply lower volts and set fans to 50 or 65

[dogie]

Set a higher minimum fan speed to prevent it dropping low. They change fan speed quite often which is annoying so if you can set the minimum very near its normal rpm then the speed will be much flatter.

[VirosaGITS]

Yeah this week in Canada has a huge heat wave, pretty much had to shut down all my miners, just left the GPUs running since they are more profitable.

And A/C doesn't work either, maybe I need 2 of them running. But having the box fan at 100% seems to keep everything cool enough. But 30C ambient is not pleasant.

Indeed, the intake gets really high, when the air in the room is already at 30C.

Set a higher minimum fan speed to prevent it dropping low. They change fan speed quite often which is annoying so if you can set the minimum very near its normal rpm then the speed will be much flatter.

They stabilize but the issue here is the controller get to 45C and the A6 stop mining.

he could rotate the avalon 6  turn it upside down  the controller is where you plug in the four pin jack that goes to the

 rasp pi.

30 c = 82 f

the controller should not have an issue in a  82 f room.


https://i.imgur.com/p49AKoL.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/iLTYrRy.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/btbyebd.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5zi5S7V.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7Si9dFf.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/MwJRCpq.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/AyRau7e.jpg


so my temp in my garage is 89

I moved temp on top of miner it is 86

so my fans are on 50
my  volts are 11.9
my controllers are  33 to 37 c

your  volts are 12.1

your controllers are hotter due to the 12.1 volt reading

simply lower volts and set fans to 50 or 65

I did turn them upside down, no difference. (As in they still reach 45C)

My Volts in are flat 12V and cannot be changed. The reading on the UI is completely derped, when underclocked the reading goes up to 12.4V, which may be the voltage inside the units but my EVGA are still feeding 12V.

The intake is much higher than 30C. 30C is the room temperature.

I just turned them off.

[adaseb]

Can't you just take off the cover and point a fan directly on that controller.

[VirosaGITS]

Can't you just take off the cover and point a fan directly on that controller.

lol, Funny idea. I'm not sure how the air flow would be without the enclosure. Anyhow to do this i'd have to remove them from the box, which would mean the hot air would be dumped inside instead of outside and we'd be back to square one. But i'll have to keep that one in mind after i'm done moving...

...or i'll just sell them, its getting pointless to run them at half speed to keep them quiet.

[adaseb]

Can't you just take off the cover and point a fan directly on that controller.

lol, Funny idea. I'm not sure how the air flow would be without the enclosure. Anyhow to do this i'd have to remove them from the box, which would mean the hot air would be dumped inside instead of outside and we'd be back to square one. But i'll have to keep that one in mind after i'm done moving...

...or i'll just sell them, its getting pointless to run them at half speed to keep them quiet.

How loud are they compared to an S3? I assumed they were very quiet miners according to the Youtube videos.

[philipma1957]

Can't you just take off the cover and point a fan directly on that controller.

lol, Funny idea. I'm not sure how the air flow would be without the enclosure. Anyhow to do this i'd have to remove them from the box, which would mean the hot air would be dumped inside instead of outside and we'd be back to square one. But i'll have to keep that one in mind after i'm done moving...

...or i'll just sell them, its getting pointless to run them at half speed to keep them quiet.

How loud are they compared to an S3? I assumed they were very quiet miners according to the Youtube videos.

the older ones with the delta fan are not as loud as a stock s-3.

the newer ones with the black no name fan are loud.  I gave away sanyo ace fans with the last group buy to keep sound better.

they are decent gear all in all but not quite as nice as the 4.1 gear was.

[VirosaGITS]

Can't you just take off the cover and point a fan directly on that controller.

lol, Funny idea. I'm not sure how the air flow would be without the enclosure. Anyhow to do this i'd have to remove them from the box, which would mean the hot air would be dumped inside instead of outside and we'd be back to square one. But i'll have to keep that one in mind after i'm done moving...

...or i'll just sell them, its getting pointless to run them at half speed to keep them quiet.

How loud are they compared to an S3? I assumed they were very quiet miners according to the Youtube videos.

At full speed, like 4.5-5k RPM its pretty much the same as a S7. The fan is less whiny, though, so its louder but not nearly as high pitch. But during the winter, the RPM was at 2k or less and they were nearly silent in my sound proof box.

My S3 is silent, i put 18dB 120mm PC fans and its running overclocked fine, temps 55-65C atm (because its hot).

The A6 is louder than a S3 all across the board, though. I would not mind trying Sanyo fans.

[MarkAz]

If you're so inclined, one thing I had considered doing when I was playing around with high temp issues was drilling a couple holes on the front right above the controller (probably wouldn't take too many, maybe 4 right across the front).  I think the problem has more to do with the hot air getting trapped in the area where the controller is, and just putting a bit of venting there would be enough to make sure it gets evac'd.  If you do consider doing it, make sure to fully disassemble it (pretty simple) so you don't get any metal filings on any of the PCB's.

[VirosaGITS]

If you're so inclined, one thing I had considered doing when I was playing around with high temp issues was drilling a couple holes on the front right above the controller (probably wouldn't take too many, maybe 4 right across the front).  I think the problem has more to do with the hot air getting trapped in the area where the controller is, and just putting a bit of venting there would be enough to make sure it gets evac'd.  If you do consider doing it, make sure to fully disassemble it (pretty simple) so you don't get any metal filings on any of the PCB's.

If i don't find a buyer for them, i might do that, i'd have to see how exactly its placed, etc. Thanks for the idea. Considering what they are earning, plugging them in an A/C's exhaust for the summer might be a good idea to keep them running cool and quiet.

[philipma1957]

If you're so inclined, one thing I had considered doing when I was playing around with high temp issues was drilling a couple holes on the front right above the controller (probably wouldn't take too many, maybe 4 right across the front).  I think the problem has more to do with the hot air getting trapped in the area where the controller is, and just putting a bit of venting there would be enough to make sure it gets evac'd.  If you do consider doing it, make sure to fully disassemble it (pretty simple) so you don't get any metal filings on any of the PCB's.

If i don't find a buyer for them, i might do that, i'd have to see how exactly its placed, etc. Thanks for the idea. Considering what they are earning, plugging them in an A/C's exhaust for the summer might be a good idea to keep them running cool and quiet.

I also considered this  I have quite a few photos of this taken apart.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1336377.0

I think you can pull the controller out and run it outside the units

[MarkAz]

If i don't find a buyer for them, i might do that, i'd have to see how exactly its placed, etc. Thanks for the idea. Considering what they are earning, plugging them in an A/C's exhaust for the summer might be a good idea to keep them running cool and quiet.

BTH, I don't think using an AC in conjunction with it would be cost effective - even using evap, which is night and day more cost effective than AC moves the needle on power... And from my simple tests, it didn't seem to be necessary.  The big fail on their design was just not extending their grill up and over the controller and using part of that as air input.  I can get why they didn't, as right now the clean air flows almost exclusively over heat-generating parts/heatsinks - but I think they failed to think about the stale air getting stuck in the large open area above.

Running the controller outside of the case would be another interesting option (as philipma said), but trickier to pull off I think.  On the units that I did take apart, I don't recall there being a ton of extra cable length.  The other issue would be getting that ribbon cable outside of the case.  Depending on whether or not you care about how it looks, you could probably just use tin snips and make channels for then, and could easily drill 4 mounting holes so the PCB stat outside of the case instead of inside.  This would definitely solve the stale air issue - but I'm not sure if it would be better than venting inside the case, as in this configuration you're still leveraging the fan in the back of the unit to pull air over it.  Now you could obviously add a fan to the board also, but you're adding even more complexity, cost and power consumption to the build - so a couple holes in the front are still the best option I think.  

Ah, here's one more non-destructive thing you could consider doing first - what about adding Kapton tape on the head sinks directly under the controller, from the front to maybe 1" behind?  This is what I'm taking about:

http://amzn.to/1NDHlk8

The miner is like 6" across, so this roll would be enough to 30+ machines, but remove the controller than the screwdowns - apply the tape so it covers up the top of the heat sinks, from edge to edge, and then replace the screwdowns and put the PCB back in it.  The Kapton tape is a thermal insulator, so it should block a fair bit of the heat that's radiating up from the heatsink, and not really change any of the airflow characteristics, since there's only a small gap between the two, and you'll only be blocking a few inches of that.  This might be a quick/easy fix...

[philipma1957]

If i don't find a buyer for them, i might do that, i'd have to see how exactly its placed, etc. Thanks for the idea. Considering what they are earning, plugging them in an A/C's exhaust for the summer might be a good idea to keep them running cool and quiet.

BTH, I don't think using an AC in conjunction with it would be cost effective - even using eval, which is night and day more cost effective than AC moves the needle on power... And from my simple tests, it didn't seem to be necessary.  The big fail on their design was just not extending their grill up and over the controller and using part of that as air input.  I can get why they didn't, as right now the clean air flows almost exclusively over heat-generating parts/heatsinks - but I think they failed to think about the stale air getting stuck in the large open area above.

Running the controller outside of the case would be another interesting option (as philipma said), but trickier to pull off I think.  On the units that I did take apart, I don't recall there being a ton of extra cable length.  The other issue would be getting that ribbon cable outside of the case.  Depending on whether or not you care about how it looks, you could probably just use tin snips and make channels for then, and could easily drill 4 mounting holes so the PCB stat outside of the case instead of inside.  This would definitely solve the stale air issue - but I'm not sure if it would be better than venting inside the case, as in this configuration you're still leveraging the fan in the back of the unit to pull air over it.  Now you could obviously add a fan to the board also, but you're adding even more complexity, cost and power consumption to the build - so a couple holes in the front are still the best option I think.  

Ah, here's one more non-destructive thing you could consider doing first - what about adding Kapton tape on the head sinks directly under the controller, from the front to maybe 1" behind?  This is what I'm taking about:

http://amzn.to/1NDHlk8

The miner is like 6" across, so this roll would be enough to 30+ machines, but remove the controller than the screwdowns - apply the tape so it covers up the top of the heat sinks, from edge to edge, and then replace the screwdowns and put the PCB back in it.  The Kapton tape is a thermal insulator, so it should block a fair bit of the heat that's radiating up from the heatsink, and not really change any of the airflow characteristics, since there's only a small gap between the two, and you'll only be blocking a few inches of that.  This might be a quick/easy fix...

I could try the heat shield.



controller removed


point of interest  this controller has 4 jacks for 4 boards and 2 jack for fans
thus running four boards on one controller may work

[MarkAz]

I could try the heat shield.

That would be great - love to hear how it works.  I've used to before to manage heat, especially when reworking electronics, etc.  I would probably go from the front of the heatsink, to that first black line in your picture.  The only other thing that you might consider doing is replacing the metal standoff's with nylon ones, as those metal ones are also going to conduct heat right into the PCB.  That would be pretty localized, and the tape will probably make the biggest difference, but I'm always a fan of overkill.  

[VirosaGITS]

If i don't find a buyer for them, i might do that, i'd have to see how exactly its placed, etc. Thanks for the idea. Considering what they are earning, plugging them in an A/C's exhaust for the summer might be a good idea to keep them running cool and quiet.

BTH, I don't think using an AC in conjunction with it would be cost effective - even using evap, which is night and day more cost effective than AC moves the needle on power... And from my simple tests, it didn't seem to be necessary.  The big fail on their design was just not extending their grill up and over the controller and using part of that as air input.  I can get why they didn't, as right now the clean air flows almost exclusively over heat-generating parts/heatsinks - but I think they failed to think about the stale air getting stuck in the large open area above.

Running the controller outside of the case would be another interesting option (as philipma said), but trickier to pull off I think.  On the units that I did take apart, I don't recall there being a ton of extra cable length.  The other issue would be getting that ribbon cable outside of the case.  Depending on whether or not you care about how it looks, you could probably just use tin snips and make channels for then, and could easily drill 4 mounting holes so the PCB stat outside of the case instead of inside.  This would definitely solve the stale air issue - but I'm not sure if it would be better than venting inside the case, as in this configuration you're still leveraging the fan in the back of the unit to pull air over it.  Now you could obviously add a fan to the board also, but you're adding even more complexity, cost and power consumption to the build - so a couple holes in the front are still the best option I think.  

Ah, here's one more non-destructive thing you could consider doing first - what about adding Kapton tape on the head sinks directly under the controller, from the front to maybe 1" behind?  This is what I'm taking about:

http://amzn.to/1NDHlk8

The miner is like 6" across, so this roll would be enough to 30+ machines, but remove the controller than the screwdowns - apply the tape so it covers up the top of the heat sinks, from edge to edge, and then replace the screwdowns and put the PCB back in it.  The Kapton tape is a thermal insulator, so it should block a fair bit of the heat that's radiating up from the heatsink, and not really change any of the airflow characteristics, since there's only a small gap between the two, and you'll only be blocking a few inches of that.  This might be a quick/easy fix...

Well only the cost of the A/C need to be counted, the running cost will be 0. Or rather, the cost of running A/C is not being able to use that power to run a S5 or two instead.

The problem with where i'm moving is, the room the miners will be in is a medium bed room with only one window. The window is somewhat high but pretty thin so i can't even fit a 20 inch box fan there. During the cold seasons, so like 7-8 months a year this is not a problem, but during summer, i don't see a way other than using A/C or tons of inline fans dumping the air outside.

If you have a cooling solution for 10-15kW through a single, narrow window, i'm all ears. Using 2-3kW of that capacity for A/C seemed like the only option i know would work.

@Phil well running the controller outside is actually a pretty decent idea, i could also figure a way to lower the intake under 36-40C, its just that to be fully quiet (30dB) they had to be in the acoustic board box.

Another option would be to run them in another room but at 1k RPM fans, so very very underclocked but that sound kind of a waste of money. AC'ing them up and have the exhaust dumped outside with those vinyl tube seem like the way to go, so that the heat generated by the units do not have to be cooled by the A/C, the only loss would be the air from the cooled room being slowly dumped outside. Still better than 2kW being dumped strait in i believe.

[adaseb]

10-15kw in a small apartment with 1 small window in the summer is clearly nuts.

[MarkAz]

Well only the cost of the A/C need to be counted, the running cost will be 0. Or rather, the cost of running A/C is not being able to use that power to run a S5 or two instead.

I take it you must not be paying for power, otherwise I'm not sure what kind of rate you're getting to make S5's profitable.  

The problem with where i'm moving is, the room the miners will be in is a medium bed room with only one window. The window is somewhat high but pretty thin so i can't even fit a 20 inch box fan there. During the cold seasons, so like 7-8 months a year this is not a problem, but during summer, i don't see a way other than using A/C or tons of inline fans dumping the air outside.

If you have a cooling solution for 10-15kW through a single, narrow window, i'm all ears. Using 2-3kW of that capacity for A/C seemed like the only option i know would work.

Another option would be to run them in another room but at 1k RPM fans, so very very underclocked but that sound kind of a waste of money. AC'ing them up and have the exhaust dumped outside with those vinyl tube seem like the way to go, so that the heat generated by the units do not have to be cooled by the A/C, the only loss would be the air from the cooled room being slowly dumped outside. Still better than 2kW being dumped strait in i believe.

Boy, 10-15k of cooling is going to be a tough ask - I built out a model in Excel to give me estimates for my builds, and that works out (on the high side) to be about 47k BTU/hr, and would translate to about 4 tons of cooling with about  ~2200 CFM of airflow needed.  These are all worst case numbers, but I always designed for 100% operation.

Personally I would do ducting from the exhaust-side of your miners to that window - if you saw any of my previous builds, I'm the king of exhaust management, and that is definitely the best bang for the buck.  If you can control and isolate your exhaust, then not only are the operating temps in your environment much easier to maintain, but you aren't fighting against yourself as the miners keep generating more heat.  If you can construct a smooth enough channel, then the fans in the miners will be enough to move the air and there's no additional power hit.

In my builds, I had enough changes in the plenum to require assistance, and I would recommend looking into the squirrel cage fans for trucks - I bought several of these for a test, and they were exceptional:

http://www.spalautomotive.com/eng/products/view_centrifugal.aspx?id=007-A42-32D

I was paying about $40 each for them on eBay, and they have a ton of static pressure - this is really key in moving lots of air out of a little window.  They're also 12v so you can power them from the same PSU's you're using for your miners.    In your case you'll want to experiment with what speed to run them at (they're 3 speed), to get the correct blend of SP and CFM.

The cheapest way to build test plenums is just to go to home depot and buy 1/2" foam insulation sheets - you can cut these with a hot knife, and use aluminum tape to hole it together.  Unlike using a vinyl tube (like a dryer flex duct), these will generally restrict airflow substantially less and also will provide good insulation so the duct itself won't radiate heat back into the room.  A 4 foot x 8 feet sheet runs under $8 typically.

[VirosaGITS]

Well only the cost of the A/C need to be counted, the running cost will be 0. Or rather, the cost of running A/C is not being able to use that power to run a S5 or two instead.

I take it you must not be paying for power, otherwise I'm not sure what kind of rate you're getting to make S5's profitable.  

The problem with where i'm moving is, the room the miners will be in is a medium bed room with only one window. The window is somewhat high but pretty thin so i can't even fit a 20 inch box fan there. During the cold seasons, so like 7-8 months a year this is not a problem, but during summer, i don't see a way other than using A/C or tons of inline fans dumping the air outside.

If you have a cooling solution for 10-15kW through a single, narrow window, i'm all ears. Using 2-3kW of that capacity for A/C seemed like the only option i know would work.

Another option would be to run them in another room but at 1k RPM fans, so very very underclocked but that sound kind of a waste of money. AC'ing them up and have the exhaust dumped outside with those vinyl tube seem like the way to go, so that the heat generated by the units do not have to be cooled by the A/C, the only loss would be the air from the cooled room being slowly dumped outside. Still better than 2kW being dumped strait in i believe.

Boy, 10-15k of cooling is going to be a tough ask - I built out a model in Excel to give me estimates for my builds, and that works out (on the high side) to be about 47k BTU/hr, and would translate to about 4 tons of cooling with about  ~2200 CFM of airflow needed.  These are all worst case numbers, but I always designed for 100% operation.

Personally I would do ducting from the exhaust-side of your miners to that window - if you saw any of my previous builds, I'm the king of exhaust management, and that is definitely the best bang for the buck.  If you can control and isolate your exhaust, then not only are the operating temps in your environment much easier to maintain, but you aren't fighting against yourself as the miners keep generating more heat.  If you can construct a smooth enough channel, then the fans in the miners will be enough to move the air and there's no additional power hit.

In my builds, I had enough changes in the plenum to require assistance, and I would recommend looking into the squirrel cage fans for trucks - I bought several of these for a test, and they were exceptional:

http://www.spalautomotive.com/eng/products/view_centrifugal.aspx?id=007-A42-32D

I was paying about $40 each for them on eBay, and they have a ton of static pressure - this is really key in moving lots of air out of a little window.  They're also 12v so you can power them from the same PSU's you're using for your miners.    In your case you'll want to experiment with what speed to run them at (they're 3 speed), to get the correct blend of SP and CFM.

The cheapest way to build test plenums is just to go to home depot and buy 1/2" foam insulation sheets - you can cut these with a hot knife, and use aluminum tape to hole it together.  Unlike using a vinyl tube (like a dryer flex duct), these will generally restrict airflow substantially less and also will provide good insulation so the duct itself won't radiate heat back into the room.  A 4 foot x 8 feet sheet runs under $8 typically.

Its a bit more complicated than that. I'm planning on dumping the heat from the ASIC like that (A6, S5), but for GPU rigs, its not quite as doable unless i put them in some sort of tents, but then they would be so big i might just dump all of the room's air instead.

Those blower, i will keep that as an option, can they run quiet? Because well, the goal is to keep everything at 30-40dB which is easy to do with GPU, doable with ASIC underclocked and with not too noisy A/C.

At the moment i'm thinking about a combination of Evap cooler in the top left, window is in the top right. And Air going out through the window through the piped ASICs, so humidity should not accumulate in the room, but heat through heat in the air and humidity.

It hard to math out, but on dry days, this could be cool enough to keep everything working happy. And for bad, humid days, i'd need to flip on A/C if i want to mine, i believe.

[alh]

While I am sure it must be better to exhaust hot air to some extent, my question is always: What is the source of the air that's going INTO the miner and then ducted to the outside? While you are cooling off air that's at say 100F (exhaust), you are obviously going to have to draw outside air, cool it down from what ever it is to say 75F. If the outside air temp is roughly the same temp as the exhaust air temp, then it seems like a wash, doesn't it?

I clearly didn't do thermodynamics in college decades ago, but if the outside air temp is really hot (think Saudi Arabia), I could imagine that it MIGHT be better not to exhaust, wouldn't it?

I would also think that 10KW (or more) in an apartment would be a lot to deal with. I can't imagine going and buying 8-10 blow dryers and turning them on full blast 24/7 in any apartment I lived in. But I wasn't trying to mine Bitcoins then either.

Just a few random thoughts, from a non HVAC guy.

[VirosaGITS]

While I am sure it must be better to exhaust hot air to some extent, my question is always: What is the source of the air that's going INTO the miner and then ducted to the outside? While you are cooling off air that's at say 100F (exhaust), you are obviously going to have to draw outside air, cool it down from what ever it is to say 75F. If the outside air temp is roughly the same temp as the exhaust air temp, then it seems like a wash, doesn't it?

I clearly didn't do thermodynamics in college decades ago, but if the outside air temp is really hot (think Saudi Arabia), I could imagine that it MIGHT be better not to exhaust, wouldn't it?

I would also think that 10KW (or more) in an apartment would be a lot to deal with. I can't imagine going and buying 8-10 blow dryers and turning them on full blast 24/7 in any apartment I lived in. But I wasn't trying to mine Bitcoins then either.

Just a few random thoughts, from a non HVAC guy.

Well i'm doing 15kW atm and its easy since the air go strait out and in Canada its cold outside most of the year. Only sometimes in the summer, during heat waves, does the temp reach 30-40C outside. Which is what i'm preparing for.

The air used by the ASIC, dumped strait outside would be taken from the room, which would balance the pressure from the apartment, which has Vents that tie apartments together and also to the outside.

Mostly, the air that will be drawn into the room will be from my apartment which will be A/C cooled for my own living confort. Its hard to say the impact it will have.

I'm just trying to offset the heat generated on hot days with a combination of venting the exhaust out (which is definitively hotter than outdoor temp)... maybe evap cooling on dry days and A/C on bad days.

[MarkAz]

While I am sure it must be better to exhaust hot air to some extent, my question is always: What is the source of the air that's going INTO the miner and then ducted to the outside? While you are cooling off air that's at say 100F (exhaust), you are obviously going to have to draw outside air, cool it down from what ever it is to say 75F. If the outside air temp is roughly the same temp as the exhaust air temp, then it seems like a wash, doesn't it?

I clearly didn't do thermodynamics in college decades ago, but if the outside air temp is really hot (think Saudi Arabia), I could imagine that it MIGHT be better not to exhaust, wouldn't it?

I would also think that 10KW (or more) in an apartment would be a lot to deal with. I can't imagine going and buying 8-10 blow dryers and turning them on full blast 24/7 in any apartment I lived in. But I wasn't trying to mine Bitcoins then either.

Just a few random thoughts, from a non HVAC guy.

heheh, while I'm not in Saudi Arabia, I am in Arizona, and for at least one day last year we were the hottest place on the planet - and I can assure you, it's ALWAYS better to vent exhaust outside (except in really special conditions).    The big advantage we have is that it's a desert climate, so evap is an option and works quite well - you can get a 20-30f temp shift depending on your configuration.  I even have a high tech evap called a direct/indirect evap, that actually passes the evap air through a second stage of cooling in a water sealed membrane, and it's possible to achieve below dew bulb cooling with evap (not much, but any is amazing).  Either way, even with relatively inexpensive power here (~6-7c), AC isn't an option.

You're right to ask the question about where the air is coming from, but in my experience with most miners, you can address it in two ways - the first is lower the ambient temperature.  So the cooler you can make the space, the less air you have to move.  AC would be an example, but as I said, you'd need 4T of cooling running 24x7 to cover 15kw of mining.  The second way is just moving air - if you have move air through the device fast enough, then in many cases it doesn't matter if the air is 100f.  I'll just use a super simple example that's not really accurate, but you'll get the idea - if your miner moves 100cfm, and introduces 20f of temperature shift (so intake temp is 80f, exhaust is 100f), if you speed the fan up to move 200cfm, the temp shift would drop to 10f (not entirely true, as these things aren't linear, but close enough).  Of course, there's a limit as to how much air you're going to be able to move through a given space though, and that's where static pressure (SP) comes into play.  The other thing to consider if you were not exhausting air is the impact of the exhaust air in the closed system... With AC, it's probably less of a factor, but if you were trying to do a kind of close evap system, the humidity would increase with each pass through the system, and the cooling would decrease until you'd ultimately end up just making your room into some nasty high humidity sauna.

So, I would calculate the heat load of the room, in this case 15kw, the volume of the room, and then the amount of CFM it would take to exchange all the air in the room based on the exhaust size.  If intake or exhaust becomes a limiting factor, then you need to treat the air in some way in order to make up the difference (AC, evap, liquid cooling, etc).

To put it in a more concrete example, in our mine with a ton of S5's and Terminator's last year, we typically saw temperatures 100f+, and only in a couple instances did we end up needing to underclock the machines to avoid the chance of thermal failures.  But at the same time, we had custom enclosures to all the miners, plenums to control the exhaust air, and enough air handling to cycle all of the rooms air in about 15 seconds.  We actually didn't even have evap until the last part of the year, and once we introduced that it made a huge difference in the temps in the room, but almost no impact in the operation of the mine.  I suspect it would have just saved us the couple days we had to underclock.  One nice side benefit of switching to 100% evap air is that it REALLY cuts down on dust, as the evap membranes work as really effective filters.

Unfortunately I didn't get to run the A6's or S7 in any real world high temp situations, but I did do some testing with them and they performed as I expected - except for the issues that VirosaGITS is having with the controller.  The other challenge that the A6's have in terms of high heat is that it's much more difficult (or at least it was) to control their usage - underclocking them didn't seems to control their temps nearly as easily as the S5's or S7's did.  I suspect this gets back to the same issue with stale air and the controller, but never looked into it further.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

<snip>

The air used by the ASIC, dumped strait outside would be taken from the room, which would balance the pressure from the apartment, which has Vents that tie apartments together and also to the outside.

Mostly, the air that will be drawn into the room will be from my apartment which will be A/C cooled for my own living confort. Its hard to say the impact it will have.

I'm just trying to offset the heat generated on hot days with a combination of venting the exhaust out (which is definitively hotter than outdoor temp)... maybe evap cooling on dry days and A/C on bad days.

Firstly, MarkAz is spot on with all points he mentioned. Kudo's

As to what your setup will do... for a start, depends on where the thermostat is followed by how makeup air is coming in. I believe most Codes now require some sort of provision to prevent high negative pressure in occupied areas but in most cases a 'leaky' building takes care of that

You said 'apartments' did you mean AC for physical apartments (units) are linked together or just the rooms in your apartment? If possible, short-circuit the airflow into the room by opening another window in the room away from the exhaust or a room/area close to the miner room and leave their doors open...

[adaseb]

Any of you have any ideas how to exhaust the GPUs ?

[MarkAz]

Firstly, MarkAz is spot on with all points he mentioned. Kudo's

heheh, it's all knowledge that I paid a much higher price to learn than I should have!    The reality is the math is pretty straight forward once you get it, and there's no way around it... Trying to get creative just ended up costing me money, and usually to little effect.

As to what your setup will do... for a start, depends on where the thermostat is followed by how makeup air is coming in. I believe most Codes now require some sort of provision to prevent high negative pressure in occupied areas but in most cases a 'leaky' building takes care of that

You said 'apartments' did you mean AC for physical apartments (units) are linked together or just the rooms in your apartment? If possible, short-circuit the airflow into the room by opening another window in the room away from the exhaust or a room/area close to the miner room and leave their doors open...

Yeah, depending on the age of the building is how sealed it's going to be - the older it is, the more leaky you'll find it to be.  In Arizona, where practically every house is only 10-15 years old, they're sealed up pretty well, but even then I would say there's probably 500 cfm of leakage (typically coming in around doors and windows, attic egress, and sometimes bathroom vents (and other things that may not have decent shutters on them).

Cracking a window or doing other things to help the intake side of your air path works great - and you'll also get a sense for what kind of pressure differential you're getting.  If you open the window, and you immediately feel it sucking the air in, then you know it's being starved to intake.  Also keep in mind that opening up multiple windows may not make any difference, because once the demand is met, it's not like it uses more.  And air is much like water in that it's demand is usually met by the source with the least resistance, so if the window right next to it is open and can supply demand, it might not even suck in air from other rooms.

If you really care, then I would highly recommend picking up a manometer - this is the one you see in all my builds:

http://amzn.to/1Tm1Y8P

Cheap and easy to setup, and no needing to guess about what the difference between supply and demand is.

Any of you have any ideas how to exhaust the GPUs ?

GPU miners would be a bitch to handle - at least the open-air ones I've seen people using... The design to use the big box fan is cool, but it also means that there's really no way to control the airflow without doing some major ducting around the whole thing, which in turn would make it a pain to work on when things go wrong.

I've actually been toying around with the idea of designing an open-air case similar to the ones I've seen - most are using 80/20 or similar extrusion, which I work with all the time and have used for all my builds.  The big things I would do is make acrylic inserts that could alternatively be used to control the airflow... I'd also design it to use server PSU's instead of these lame PC ones - it blows my mind that all these GPU rigs are using off-the shelf PSU's.  I recently got one of optimizer's 4k boards to play with, and it's pretty sweet - plus he actually uses the sync pin, so it matches the voltage between the two PSU.  That really got me thinking about building a GPU rig around it, as the 4k could easily run a 6 GPU miner (a single 2k could probably run one, depending on the cards).

[VirosaGITS]

<snip>

The air used by the ASIC, dumped strait outside would be taken from the room, which would balance the pressure from the apartment, which has Vents that tie apartments together and also to the outside.

Mostly, the air that will be drawn into the room will be from my apartment which will be A/C cooled for my own living confort. Its hard to say the impact it will have.

I'm just trying to offset the heat generated on hot days with a combination of venting the exhaust out (which is definitively hotter than outdoor temp)... maybe evap cooling on dry days and A/C on bad days.

Firstly, MarkAz is spot on with all points he mentioned. Kudo's

As to what your setup will do... for a start, depends on where the thermostat is followed by how makeup air is coming in. I believe most Codes now require some sort of provision to prevent high negative pressure in occupied areas but in most cases a 'leaky' building takes care of that

You said 'apartments' did you mean AC for physical apartments (units) are linked together or just the rooms in your apartment? If possible, short-circuit the airflow into the room by opening another window in the room away from the exhaust or a room/area close to the miner room and leave their doors open...

Its because of the bathroom vents things, it seem to connect apartments together, for instance if the lady upstairs smoked in her bath, it would smell like cigarette in my bathroom. And those are connected to exhausts ports. It's probably easier to have common vent than each apartment having their own. We also have cloth washing rooms which are also connected to exhaust ports.

There's not supposed to be but there's a small square manhole they cut above my bath to access the bath above for some repair in the past and if i leave that open, there's a significant (heat) draft going from my living room to it. It always seem to suck a lot of air from my apartment, unless i go severely negative pressure. Since i generate a lot of heat i'm pretty much always positive pressure so its easier to plan that way.

I'm moving there next Monday and before i start running test its going to be hard to say. Most likely if possible i will want a setup with the room closed and seal on its own circuit, hopefully with evap cooling, so that the noise coming out of it, with acoustic panels will be nil.

[adaseb]

<snip>

The air used by the ASIC, dumped strait outside would be taken from the room, which would balance the pressure from the apartment, which has Vents that tie apartments together and also to the outside.

Mostly, the air that will be drawn into the room will be from my apartment which will be A/C cooled for my own living confort. Its hard to say the impact it will have.

I'm just trying to offset the heat generated on hot days with a combination of venting the exhaust out (which is definitively hotter than outdoor temp)... maybe evap cooling on dry days and A/C on bad days.

Firstly, MarkAz is spot on with all points he mentioned. Kudo's

As to what your setup will do... for a start, depends on where the thermostat is followed by how makeup air is coming in. I believe most Codes now require some sort of provision to prevent high negative pressure in occupied areas but in most cases a 'leaky' building takes care of that

You said 'apartments' did you mean AC for physical apartments (units) are linked together or just the rooms in your apartment? If possible, short-circuit the airflow into the room by opening another window in the room away from the exhaust or a room/area close to the miner room and leave their doors open...

Its because of the bathroom vents things, it seem to connect apartments together, for instance if the lady upstairs smoked in her bath, it would smell like cigarette in my bathroom. And those are connected to exhausts ports. It's probably easier to have common vent than each apartment having their own. We also have cloth washing rooms which are also connected to exhaust ports.

There's not supposed to be but there's a small square manhole they cut above my bath to access the bath above for some repair in the past and if i leave that open, there's a significant (heat) draft going from my living room to it. It always seem to suck a lot of air from my apartment, unless i go severely negative pressure. Since i generate a lot of heat i'm pretty much always positive pressure so its easier to plan that way.

I'm moving there next Monday and before i start running test its going to be hard to say. Most likely if possible i will want a setup with the room closed and seal on its own circuit, hopefully with evap cooling, so that the noise coming out of it, with acoustic panels will be nil.

I have the same cover, but it seems to push cold air inside, not suck warm air out.

[VirosaGITS]

I have the same cover, but it seems to push cold air inside, not suck warm air out.

That would probably be a poor design? (If its "Cold air") I mean we're in Canada and it get cold, so you'd want those 1 way flap to allow air out but not winter in, because those gets pretty damn cold ^_^"

At some point i was able to pull a bit of air, from i assume surrounding appartements during summer, however. So it was 20C~ air, not Cold, but it wasn't too bad either. (Had both windows in the living room to output ASIC heat)

Mostly though it was a HUGE draft from my bed room if i ever dared to open that window.

[adaseb]

Actually there are 2 covers in the bathroom. One on the ceiling and one on the bottom near the water supply lines for the bath taps.

The one on the bottom seems to be blowing cold air in at the moment (its windy outside).

[MarkAz]

I'm moving there next Monday and before i start running test its going to be hard to say. Most likely if possible i will want a setup with the room closed and seal on its own circuit, hopefully with evap cooling, so that the noise coming out of it, with acoustic panels will be nil.

Make sure that where-ever you live, the humidity is low enough to make evap practical - otherwise it's just a waste of time.  Most evaps are really low noise, as the only two components are the water pump and the air handler, with AC the loudest noise is usually the compressor...

[VirosaGITS]

I'm moving there next Monday and before i start running test its going to be hard to say. Most likely if possible i will want a setup with the room closed and seal on its own circuit, hopefully with evap cooling, so that the noise coming out of it, with acoustic panels will be nil.

Make sure that where-ever you live, the humidity is low enough to make evap practical - otherwise it's just a waste of time.  Most evaps are really low noise, as the only two components are the water pump and the air handler, with AC the loudest noise is usually the compressor...

Well its near here. Humidity is anywhere from 10% to 100% here lol. So on humid day i'd need A/C.

What kind of job would this do on dry day?;
https://www.amazon.ca/NewAir-AF-1000W-Portable-Evaporative-Cooler/dp/B00KOHMSHW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1461319060&sr=8-2&keywords=evaporative+cooler

[fanatic26]

point of interest  this controller has 4 jacks for 4 boards and 2 jack for fans
thus running four boards on one controller may work

As of now there is no coding in the software to make it work. You must use the two inner data ports as well as the inner fan port or the controller will not recognize anything. I think they were planning a larger multi S5 style unit controlling more boards but it never came to fruition.

[MarkAz]

Well its near here. Humidity is anywhere from 10% to 100% here lol. So on humid day i'd need A/C.

What kind of job would this do on dry day?;
https://www.amazon.ca/NewAir-AF-1000W-Portable-Evaporative-Cooler/dp/B00KOHMSHW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1461319060&sr=8-2&keywords=evaporative+cooler

If you're even a bit handy, you can really easily build a cheap/decent evap to test things out - and it will probably work substancially better than the one you linked to.  Here's a youtube showing a decent build:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_ubf0zqvSQ

or another popular one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHbQYajfGqM

There's very little to evap coolers, basically just a pump, fan, water reservoir and media.  You can probably build everything from the first video for under $100, and the second video for even less (but it won't work as well).

[VirosaGITS]

Well its near here. Humidity is anywhere from 10% to 100% here lol. So on humid day i'd need A/C.

What kind of job would this do on dry day?;
https://www.amazon.ca/NewAir-AF-1000W-Portable-Evaporative-Cooler/dp/B00KOHMSHW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1461319060&sr=8-2&keywords=evaporative+cooler

If you're even a bit handy, you can really easily build a cheap/decent evap to test things out - and it will probably work substancially better than the one you linked to.  Here's a youtube showing a decent build:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_ubf0zqvSQ

or another popular one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHbQYajfGqM

There's very little to evap coolers, basically just a pump, fan, water reservoir and media.  You can probably build everything from the first video for under $100, and the second video for even less (but it won't work as well).

That's uhm, REALLY cool. No pun intended. I could probably build some of these at some point. The problem i have right now is sourcing box fans like these that don't vibrate and make annoying noise.

In Canada i can only find the one i want at like 60-80$ (nuts).

Anyways i may find the time to do this during summer. Though for now i need something quick i can buy that will help with the cramped space in my "server room".

So any suggestions for something good (and maybe quiet) that will do the trick online and get here fast would be good.

[MarkAz]

That's uhm, REALLY cool. No pun intended. I could probably build some of these at some point. The problem i have right now is sourcing box fans like these that don't vibrate and make annoying noise.

In Canada i can only find the one i want at like 60-80$ (nuts).

Anyways i may find the time to do this during summer. Though for now i need something quick i can buy that will help with the cramped space in my "server room".

So any suggestions for something good (and maybe quiet) that will do the trick online and get here fast would be good.

Ah, looking over at Amazon.ca, I see what you mean - they all have brutal shipping charges, that sucks.  The one thing to keep in mind is that I imagine when you run a box fan off something like the first video, you'll probably be running it at it's lowest speed, so vibration and noise really shouldn't be that big an issue.  You can also just design around whatever fan you CAN get easily and cheaply, that's one of the advantages of rolling your own.  TBH, the quality you're going to get building your own is going to probably be much higher than if you buy one of those consumer-ish things - most of those work like crap and aren't even worth the money. 

You might also check Craigslist - I can't speak for where you're at, but where I am there's probably well over 50+ box fans for sale on there right now, most asking ~$10.   There's also a ton of evaps as well, but they probably aren't as common where you're at.

[VirosaGITS]

That's uhm, REALLY cool. No pun intended. I could probably build some of these at some point. The problem i have right now is sourcing box fans like these that don't vibrate and make annoying noise.

In Canada i can only find the one i want at like 60-80$ (nuts).

Anyways i may find the time to do this during summer. Though for now i need something quick i can buy that will help with the cramped space in my "server room".

So any suggestions for something good (and maybe quiet) that will do the trick online and get here fast would be good.

Ah, looking over at Amazon.ca, I see what you mean - they all have brutal shipping charges, that sucks.  The one thing to keep in mind is that I imagine when you run a box fan off something like the first video, you'll probably be running it at it's lowest speed, so vibration and noise really shouldn't be that big an issue.  You can also just design around whatever fan you CAN get easily and cheaply, that's one of the advantages of rolling your own.  TBH, the quality you're going to get building your own is going to probably be much higher than if you buy one of those consumer-ish things - most of those work like crap and aren't even worth the money.  

You might also check Craigslist - I can't speak for where you're at, but where I am there's probably well over 50+ box fans for sale on there right now, most asking ~$10.   There's also a ton of evaps as well, but they probably aren't as common where you're at.

I didnt have much luck, so i might take my chance with whatever Home Depot or Canadian Tire has.

I'm interested in making the home made Evap cooler, any place Online i might be able to get what i need for cheap, shipped to Canada? I'd guess i'd need the tubing, the pump and the foam thing that will be soaked in water.

I can get the wood, nails, fan etc easily i think. Though i'm not sure what to buy/use for the basin.

[philipma1957]

That's uhm, REALLY cool. No pun intended. I could probably build some of these at some point. The problem i have right now is sourcing box fans like these that don't vibrate and make annoying noise.

In Canada i can only find the one i want at like 60-80$ (nuts).

Anyways i may find the time to do this during summer. Though for now i need something quick i can buy that will help with the cramped space in my "server room".

So any suggestions for something good (and maybe quiet) that will do the trick online and get here fast would be good.

Ah, looking over at Amazon.ca, I see what you mean - they all have brutal shipping charges, that sucks.  The one thing to keep in mind is that I imagine when you run a box fan off something like the first video, you'll probably be running it at it's lowest speed, so vibration and noise really shouldn't be that big an issue.  You can also just design around whatever fan you CAN get easily and cheaply, that's one of the advantages of rolling your own.  TBH, the quality you're going to get building your own is going to probably be much higher than if you buy one of those consumer-ish things - most of those work like crap and aren't even worth the money.  

You might also check Craigslist - I can't speak for where you're at, but where I am there's probably well over 50+ box fans for sale on there right now, most asking ~$10.   There's also a ton of evaps as well, but they probably aren't as common where you're at.

I didnt have much luck, so i might take my chance with whatever Home Depot or Canadian Tire has.

I'm interested in making the home made Evap cooler, any place Online i might be able to get what i need for cheap, shipped to Canada? I'd guess i'd need the tubing, the pump and the foam thing that will be soaked in water.

I can get the wood, nails, fan etc easily i think. Though i'm not sure what to buy/use for the basin.

how about a cement mixing tub?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Medium-Mixing-Tub-887101A/202086173


I don't know what store you can find it in Canada  ,but these are sturdy and low cost.

[VirosaGITS]

That's uhm, REALLY cool. No pun intended. I could probably build some of these at some point. The problem i have right now is sourcing box fans like these that don't vibrate and make annoying noise.

In Canada i can only find the one i want at like 60-80$ (nuts).

Anyways i may find the time to do this during summer. Though for now i need something quick i can buy that will help with the cramped space in my "server room".

So any suggestions for something good (and maybe quiet) that will do the trick online and get here fast would be good.

Ah, looking over at Amazon.ca, I see what you mean - they all have brutal shipping charges, that sucks.  The one thing to keep in mind is that I imagine when you run a box fan off something like the first video, you'll probably be running it at it's lowest speed, so vibration and noise really shouldn't be that big an issue.  You can also just design around whatever fan you CAN get easily and cheaply, that's one of the advantages of rolling your own.  TBH, the quality you're going to get building your own is going to probably be much higher than if you buy one of those consumer-ish things - most of those work like crap and aren't even worth the money.  

You might also check Craigslist - I can't speak for where you're at, but where I am there's probably well over 50+ box fans for sale on there right now, most asking ~$10.   There's also a ton of evaps as well, but they probably aren't as common where you're at.

I didnt have much luck, so i might take my chance with whatever Home Depot or Canadian Tire has.

I'm interested in making the home made Evap cooler, any place Online i might be able to get what i need for cheap, shipped to Canada? I'd guess i'd need the tubing, the pump and the foam thing that will be soaked in water.

I can get the wood, nails, fan etc easily i think. Though i'm not sure what to buy/use for the basin.

how about a cement mixing tub?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Medium-Mixing-Tub-887101A/202086173


I don't know what store you can find it in Canada  ,but these are sturdy and low cost.

Thats a pretty good hint, thanks.

I been busy with relocating the mine. But if someone know where/what to order online for the pump, tube and foam, i'd like to hear it. I bought the 2x4 wood while i was at Home Depot the other day and i got some box fans that don't vibrate like an old dildo.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

For pumps and tubing check out any local hydroponics store or HomeDepot in the garden section (for fountains). Don't need a lot of flow since yer only keeping the foam wet so I think a very small pump like  http://littlegiant.com/products/hvac/evaporative-cooler-pumps-cp-series/ which can run dry or submersible ones like http://www.lg-outdoor.com/c/hydroponic-circulation-pumps which CANNOT run dry should do nicely. btw: prices on those sites are way over what I usually see the pumps selling for.

[adaseb]

VirosaGITS, check your mining with oven thread in the other section.

[VirosaGITS]

For pumps and tubing check out any local hydroponics store or HomeDepot in the garden section (for fountains). Don't need a lot of flow since yer only keeping the foam wet so I think a very small pump like  http://littlegiant.com/products/hvac/evaporative-cooler-pumps-cp-series/ which can run dry or submersible ones like http://www.lg-outdoor.com/c/hydroponic-circulation-pumps which CANNOT run dry should do nicely. btw: prices on those sites are way over what I usually see the pumps selling for.

Thanks, what about picking the right foam? I'm guessing some kind would get moldy after a while? Or is that unavoidable?

VirosaGITS, check your mining with oven thread in the other section.

Yes, but it involve a new circuit and lots of A/C. However i haven't been able to get myself an Oven yet so using both at the same time is a bit moot at the moment.

[MarkAz]

Thanks, what about picking the right foam? I'm guessing some kind would get moldy after a while? Or is that unavoidable?

Are you talking the structural foam I was talking about for making the plenum/channels for air?  If so, it's just the big foam insulation sheets from Home Depot...

As far as getting moldy, if you're running the evap at the right flow level, it shouldn't increase the humidity that much - you typically only have that issue if you're running too much water over the media and it's splashing everywhere, etc.  There's generally also not that much benefit over running more water - the key is to moisten the media enough so there is a thin sheen of water on it - the trick is it's the hot air moving over the thin layer of water, causing it to evaporate that makes the temperature drop.  Otherwise you could just fill a bucket with water and blow air over it to get the same effect.    In a perfect world, the less water that comes out the bottom, the better, but you still want the media at the bottom to be fully saturated.

One more thing worth noting, typically you'll want to start the pump and 'prime' the media with water for probably 30 mins or so before starting the fan, so it has a chance to fully saturate.

[VirosaGITS]

Thanks, what about picking the right foam? I'm guessing some kind would get moldy after a while? Or is that unavoidable?

Are you talking the structural foam I was talking about for making the plenum/channels for air?  If so, it's just the big foam insulation sheets from Home Depot...

As far as getting moldy, if you're running the evap at the right flow level, it shouldn't increase the humidity that much - you typically only have that issue if you're running too much water over the media and it's splashing everywhere, etc.  There's generally also not that much benefit over running more water - the key is to moisten the media enough so there is a thin sheen of water on it - the trick is it's the hot air moving over the thin layer of water, causing it to evaporate that makes the temperature drop.  Otherwise you could just fill a bucket with water and blow air over it to get the same effect.    In a perfect world, the less water that comes out the bottom, the better, but you still want the media at the bottom to be fully saturated.

One more thing worth noting, typically you'll want to start the pump and 'prime' the media with water for probably 30 mins or so before starting the fan, so it has a chance to fully saturate.

I might need to re-read everything. There's a foam that absorb water, about 20x20inch of it, to blow the air through. If you come by a link, that would simplify the matter.

[MarkAz]

I might need to re-read everything. There's a foam that absorb water, about 20x20inch of it, to blow the air through. If you come by a link, that would simplify the matter.

Are you talking about the evap media?  Like this:

http://amzn.to/1NZUGDE

This is what you should be passing the water over, not foam...

[VirosaGITS]

I might need to re-read everything. There's a foam that absorb water, about 20x20inch of it, to blow the air through. If you come by a link, that would simplify the matter.

Are you talking about the evap media?  Like this:

http://amzn.to/1NZUGDE

This is what you should be passing the water over, not foam...

It look liked interwined strips of foamy material to me, and maybe my memory is playing trick on me but i thought thats what the guy in the video called it.

I'll have a look at all the sizes and things i will need in a bit, i'll probably have the time again to do... well... anything, starting from next Monday.

[MarkAz]

It look liked interwined strips of foamy material to me, and maybe my memory is playing trick on me but i thought thats what the guy in the video called it.

I'll have a look at all the sizes and things i will need in a bit, i'll probably have the time again to do... well... anything, starting from next Monday.

Most of the commercial evap media is made of a cardboard-like material, you'll also sometimes find it made out of wood, but in general I think that's more for consumer machines.  Never saw any made out of foam, but have seen some made out of a kind of mesh plastic - but since all the commercial units I've seen use cardboard, that's my choice -   spend a couple bucks more and just get commercial-grade evap media, it's all pretty cheap anyway (plus check eBay or Zoro).  The other variable is how thick the media is - the thicker, the better - the more cooling it will provide.  I typically use 4" (plus it's perfect when building stuff with 2x4's) media whenever possible, although my direct-indirect unit uses 4x 8" thick media, and it really does a great job.

[VirosaGITS]

It look liked interwined strips of foamy material to me, and maybe my memory is playing trick on me but i thought thats what the guy in the video called it.

I'll have a look at all the sizes and things i will need in a bit, i'll probably have the time again to do... well... anything, starting from next Monday.

Most of the commercial evap media is made of a cardboard-like material, you'll also sometimes find it made out of wood, but in general I think that's more for consumer machines.  Never saw any made out of foam, but have seen some made out of a kind of mesh plastic - but since all the commercial units I've seen use cardboard, that's my choice -   spend a couple bucks more and just get commercial-grade evap media, it's all pretty cheap anyway (plus check eBay or Zoro).  The other variable is how thick the media is - the thicker, the better - the more cooling it will provide.  I typically use 4" (plus it's perfect when building stuff with 2x4's) media whenever possible, although my direct-indirect unit uses 4x 8" thick media, and it really does a great job.

So do you like, cut 4 square of 4x5" to fill the 20x20x4 area of the 2x4 in a box build? Also if you ever posted about the project with pictures on this forum, do you have a link? That could be pretty cool.

[MarkAz]

So do you like, cut 4 square of 4x5" to fill the 20x20x4 area of the 2x4 in a box build?

Normally I built my things more on even numbers, so I would typically have it be 24x24x4, but the principle is still the same - take something like this:

https://www.zoro.com/portacool-evaporative-cooling-media-12x4x72-in-pad4072ec/i/G8632662/

And just trim it to fit - so in my example it would be two strips 12x24x4, and you'd still have some left over.

Also if you ever posted about the project with pictures on this forum, do you have a link? That could be pretty cool.

TBH, I never saw the reason to take any pictures on the evap stuff, as it's all pretty straight forward and I wasn't really innovating/adding much to it, just doing what others had done.  I did post quite a few pictures of my case mods and a couple of the plenum enclosures I built - but I didn't spend that much time on the evap side, so they didn't look nearly as cool.  Here's some of the things I did:










As you can see, I tend to use acrylic often because I have a laser cutter and can make precision parts with it.

The only thing I have setup now is the direct-indirect system, which is similar to this:

http://www.coolerado.com/how-coolerado-works/

But it's a commercial solution (not the Coolerado, but not manufactured anymore).  I was planning on looking into trying to build an direct-indirect system like these, but just haven't had time.  They work MUCH better than traditional evaps, but they're also more complicated - but not as complicated as an AC.

[VirosaGITS]

Thats great, and yeah if i was in a dry environment and i had a house i'd prolly get a big indirect evap cooler, because it doesnt add humidity to the air. Anyways not the one dumped at the target.

I'll have a look later at Zoro, it seem down atm.