What no privacy means

[Moneroman88]

Without Privacy (security of self) this is where we are heading: https://infowars.wikia.com/wiki/Society_of_Control.   A cryptocurrency should be private by default and public voluntarily, not vice versa: https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero. The internet got privacy wrong, we should learn from that mistake.

[evergrow]

Without Privacy (security of self) this is where we are heading: https://infowars.wikia.com/wiki/Society_of_Control.   A cryptocurrency should be private by default and public voluntarily, not vice versa: https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero. The internet got privacy wrong, we should learn from that mistake.

Isn't Bitcoin private enough anyway?

[Dink]

Bitcoin is private to a point, but that privacy is mostly lost through the internet.  Yes it seems we did get it wrong.

[instacalm]

The internet got privacy wrong, we should learn from that mistake.

what do you mean by that?

[generalizethis]

Nice to see my sig got a second job.

[Nxtblg]

Without Privacy (security of self) this is where we are heading: https://infowars.wikia.com/wiki/Society_of_Control.   A cryptocurrency should be private by default and public voluntarily, not vice versa: https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero. The internet got privacy wrong, we should learn from that mistake.

Welcome back. I still remember your thread, "Monero At 25 Cents What The Hell Are You Waiting For?" I didn't bite at the time, but I was tempted - and those who did, got a quadruple.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Cash is private.  I pay for sex toys with $50 bills and no one has any idea who bought 'em.  And the local sex shop doesn't take monero. 

[generalizethis]

Cash is private.  I pay for sex toys with $50 bills and no one has any idea who bought 'em.  And the local sex shop doesn't take monero.  

I think the argument against that would be serial numbers and cameras. You might want to pay in quarters from now on.

[shyliar]

Cash is private.  I pay for sex toys with $50 bills and no one has any idea who bought 'em.  And the local sex shop doesn't take monero. 

It's the security camera you need to be worried about.

[Nxtblg]

Cash is private.  I pay for sex toys with $50 bills and no one has any idea who bought 'em.  And the local sex shop doesn't take monero. 

I think the argument against that would serial numbers and cameras. You might want to pay in quarters from now on.

Good point. With QR codes nowadays, bills with serial numbers are potentially trackable one-by-one. I can actually see Joe Average getting behind that idea, as he's prolly steeped in dramas where the greedy villains demand "unmarked bills".

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Cash is private.  I pay for sex toys with $50 bills and no one has any idea who bought 'em.  And the local sex shop doesn't take monero. 

It's the security camera you need to be worried about.

Yes I agree with you 100%.  Even with serial numbers, there isn't a way for the cops to determine that I bought my PCP with a certain $20 bill--unless it's a setup of course.  It's those goddamn cameras and people filming everything with their cell phones.

[generalizethis]

Cash is private.  I pay for sex toys with $50 bills and no one has any idea who bought 'em.  And the local sex shop doesn't take monero.  

It's the security camera you need to be worried about.

Yes I agree with you 100%.  Even with serial numbers, there isn't a way for the cops to determine that I bought my PCP with a certain $20 bill--unless it's a setup of course.  It's those goddamn cameras and people filming everything with their cell phones.

I remember on Bill Maher's roundtable show that Marilyn Manson made one of the most astute observations about modern privacy I've encountered: that it isn't one Big Brother that is monitoring you, it's a whole bunch of Little Brothers.

Though, after the Snowden revelations, it's hard to argue that it isn't both working in conjunction to limit privacy at every turn. This may be motivated by the desire to control the desire that we deem abhorrent in ourselves through the control of others. What should frighten people most isn't that one person is capable of atrocities it's that when we give the state too much power over our lives that those atrocities are manifested through the state and carried out a million times over.

[evergrow]

I don't understand why this privacy advocated by Monero is so important. Bitcoin's privacy capabilities seem to be enough, right?

[evergrow]

I understand there's a need for privacy. There certainly is. I don't know about Cryptonote and Monero though.

Probably I'm clueless

[barnaby47]

Yup, privacy is more and more important in this age of mass surveillance.

But Monero? ... seriously?

Quote from Monero core dev about Monero:

It dangerous experimental technology. Unless you are an expert capable of evaluating everything carefully and an extreme speculator, and in all cases capable of securing your crypto coins properly, you shouldn't buy it. If you have a short term use, well you still need to be able to secure your crypto coins properly, and no that doesn't mean GUI.

[Dassi]

Bitcoin is private to a point, but that privacy is mostly lost through the internet.  Yes it seems we did get it wrong.

Unless your computer got hacked into, or you have a virus there, bitcoin is as private as it can be especially if you are using a paper wallet.

[J1mb0]

People shouldn't equate distributed with anonymity or privacy. In fact BitCoin transactions are meant to be available for scrutiny to anyone running core anywhere on the network.

As for Cryptonote - it has been around long enough and disperate teams have been peer reviewing it long enough to be as trustworthy as any other cryptocurrency around.

[barnaby47]

As for Cryptonote - it has been around long enough and disperate teams have been peer reviewing it long enough

yes ...

to be as trustworthy as any other cryptocurrency around.

but no. This is not a logical consequence of the statement above.

Bitcoin is trustworthy because:

In fact BitCoin transactions are meant to be available for scrutiny to anyone running core anywhere on the network.

The visibility of the transactions in the blockchain enables anyone and everyone to confirm the validity of the ledger. Cryptonote does not have this visibility, therefore the validity of the transactions cannot be confirmed, which means there is no independent way of verifying that the implementation or the protocol have not been broken.

It could be broken, we dont know and we have no way of showing that it is not being exploited right now.

[generalizethis]

The visibility of the transactions in the blockchain enables anyone and everyone to confirm the validity of the ledger. Cryptonote does not have this visibility, therefore the validity of the transactions cannot be confirmed, which means there is no independent way of verifying that the implementation or the protocol have not been broken.

It could be broken, we dont know and we have no way of showing that it is not being exploited right now.

That's not true. You can verify Monero's coinbase as you do in Bitcoin.

[barnaby47]

The visibility of the transactions in the blockchain enables anyone and everyone to confirm the validity of the ledger. Cryptonote does not have this visibility, therefore the validity of the transactions cannot be confirmed, which means there is no independent way of verifying that the implementation or the protocol have not been broken.

It could be broken, we dont know and we have no way of showing that it is not being exploited right now.

That's not true. You can verify Monero's coinbase as you do in Bitcoin.

Yes, but not the rest of the chain unfortunately.