Am i wrong thinking Butterflylabs is the end of Bitcoins ?

[mybadomen]

 Hiya guys I know I am new to Bitcoins/mining and there is allot I don't understand.But there is allot I do understand also. I knew about Butterflylabs when i recently decided to get into mining Bitcoin's and Investing etc.But don't get me wrong i think are amazing at what they created and i highly respect their intelligence.

 But the last few days i cant get it out of my head how this isn't going to really do a number on the whole Bitcoin system. Miners like me who thought they had half decent mining setups now will become totally pointless seeing you can buy the BitForce Jalapeno 4.5 GH/s for $150.00 Thats 1/3 the cost of just 1 7970. My first thought of course was wow im dumping my cards and grabbing a few of those.The i woke up and came back to reallity and realized just about every Miner out there is doing the same.

 So ok im going to lose by staying with my GPU's but i dont see how everyone is not going to lose as wont the coins all be held by few people extremely soon? We are talking machines faster then complete pools at the moment. I cant see any future every way i look at it for Bitcoins once a few thousand of these are running.

 Problems i see is 1) the majority of the coins will be held and not in circulation. 2) Mining will become kinda pointless or let me re phrase that it will become less attractive. 3) I think the value of the coin will be like pennies really fast.

 That is just a few of my concerns. Can someone please prove me wrong and tell me there is a future and why?

 As i said i am rather new so take it easy on me as i think i have some valid points even if they are a little off.

Take Care
MybadOmen

[Luno]

Mining coins getting 20 times harder means:

1. price goes up?

2. price goes down?

The value of Bitcoin comes not from being easy to make at home!

Bitcoins are getting out of stock, because the average guy, like you and me, can't make them ourselves any more.

[mybadomen]

 My point exactly. I kinda was under the assumption the Bitcoins were a huge innovation that would eventually be used by the majority of people as an online currency. I think that idea is out the window. I know see it becoming more like a bunch of banks that owe all the coins. And on the other side i see people like us totally losing interest all together as the system will become no different then what we have now. Really sad to be part of and watch a wonderful idea go out the window so fast. I guess it was only a matter of time as it has been predicted to happen. Bad part is its happening way sooner. I will still mine hoping that it survives as i am mainly doing it for fun and because i believe in the concept. I also believe or hope rather that something will change to prevent this from happening the way it is.

 Like i said i don't see any other conclusion besides the end of what we call Bitcoins today.But then again it will be a great opportunity for another online currency to take over. Sure i can run out right now and order a few 60Ghz machines right now and set them up but honestly i want no part of the destruction that i personally foresee.

 But again im hoping someone can put some ease to my worries.

 Another thing if Bitcoins died today i would lose nothing so my worries are not about me but the whole system i really admire.

Take Care
 

[mjc]

It means a more secure network.  It does mean GPU mining is over, but there's a new technology until the next new technology.

[jojo69]

we HAVE to move ahead and hash harder

the ASICs will be widely dispersed, you mentioned the jale, even the SC single is $1300, cheaper than a GPU rig

if BFL and others had not moved ahead with bare metal ASIC then governments or banks would have, with the aim of destroying bitcoin

indeed, ASIC is bitcoin's salvation

[FreeMoney]

You don't make hardly anything that you use yourself and most of it works great. And $1200 or whatever is hardly out of reach for home production anyway.

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

ASICs are just the natural order defending itself from outside threats, as any organism would.

[redbeans2012]

I think people said the same thing when you couldn't mine from the CPU's anymore.  I used to mine with GPU's what a headache.  lol

[lassdas]

Perhaps you weren't around, but people said the same thing about the switch from CPUs to GPUs.

^^This!

I kinda was under the assumption the Bitcoins were a huge innovation that would eventually be used by the majority of people as an online currency. I think that idea is out the window.

I don't see what bitcoins being used by the majority of people as an online currency has todo with the fact who generates them, or on what hardware they do it.

There's no need to be a miner at all to use Bitcoin as an online currency, a user doesn't really care who creates it.

If you wanted to become a decent miner before, you needed to invest in a lot of decent GPUs, or FPGAs,
if you want to become a decent miner now, you need to invest in (at least) a couple of ASICs.

ASICs don't change anything! (except for botnets, hopefully)

[LightRider]

This is the progression of any monetary system. The means of production are concentrated into fewer hands while the many have to compete against each other to get the crumbs of the pie. This is why we see the many problems we face as a global society, and it is one that money will never fix. While bitcoin is technically a better money, it remains money, and it can only lead to the further destruction of the human species until we learn to live without money.

[Parazyd]

The only people who will really profit from ASIC are the few people that have the units now. Everything later is basically a joke.

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

This is the progression of any monopoly monetary system. The means of production are concentrated into fewer hands while the many have to compete against each other to get the crumbs of the pie. This is why we see the many problems we face as a global society, and it is one that government-controlled money will never fix. While bitcoin is technically a better money, it remains isn't government-controlled money, and it can only lead to the further destruction awesomeness of the human species until as we learn to live without centralized money.

FTFY.

[Lethn]

It isn't the end of Bitcoin but the end of Bitcoin mining and that means that Bitcoin will be used as a currency as opposed to a silly get rich scheme, Bitcoin was never intended to be purely about mining and it's actually been incredibly well designed for a real economy that isn't run by central banks, so the short version of it all is yes, you're very wrong

[mybadomen]

 Thank you for a better understanding and yes the new machines are way cheaper then the hardware i have now. Allot more practical. I still just dont see a good outcome of it all really. Speaking in terms of the long run and more people actually using the coins. The way i see it is the small miners are most likely the ones that will just spend the coins and they will recirculate.I find it hard to see the world or majority investing there cash when they see the huge drop in price and how fast it is going to happen.I am only thinking for myself but if the market drops as rapidly as i think it will when tons of these machines get rolling the Bitcoin that mind you i think its absolutely amazing to work out how well it did and become a currency which was very close to valid.

 I know Die Hard Bitcoiners will always be here till the end but isn't the point to get more people using them as a currency?

 Right now i love it its a blast to do and i am on 2 small machines really that i already owned so reading about Bitcoins and Mining and investing ,Gambling all the great stuff about it i got sucked in and love it. As i am sure many other Newbies did. But then when i started reading the Million posts and videos on how bad these new machines are for Bit coining as a whole my draw kinda dropped and i came here to just ask straight up what the deal was.

 I cant possibly understand how the value with ever come back up when you know there will be a few holders of toms of these machines operating and insane Hash rates.


 I thank you guys for the replies you left they were very helpful. I love Bitcoin's I love Mining (Not for huge profit but just for fun) And i would be devastated if everything fell apart as many predict it will.My personal reason for Mining is i was folding before Mining as i have a handicapped child. Well it seemed more practical to make some Bitcoins while having the same fun and Donate to some of the different Children Charity's like Autism and Cerebral Palsy and of course pay my electric ,Gamble a little,Invest a little. But these new machines kinda kill the whole online world of it all. Can i write and Post this message while Mining on one of those new machines? Can i be on the new Mining machines being part of the community?

 Just a bunch of stupid little concerns but you guys have been very helpful. Although sadly if it was a gamble i would be against Bitcoins making it do to this new technology Unfortunately .

But please guys come back in a couple years to this thread and say I told you so. Because there is nothing i want more then to be wrong. I really dont understand why you guys want to take the new people getting into Bitcoins out of the Picture. I think that 1 thing right there is a Killer. In the pool i am in 1 person owns like half the hashrate and the rest are all little guys. I know some with buy but can you imagine the amount that wont.

Sorry for the long blab and Long Live Bitcoin's

[jl2012]

 3) I think the value of the coin will be like pennies really fast.

Please SELL!!! Last chance to sell at $27!!!

[Parazyd]

I sold yesterday... Still keeping BTC10. Maybe the price goes even higher.

[lassdas]

I still just dont see a good outcome of it all really. Speaking in terms of the long run and more people actually using the coins.

People using coins != Miners
What's so hard to understand about that?
Mining is a highly competitive business and has nothing todo with the general use of Bitcoin as a currency.

The way i see it is the small miners are most likely the ones that will just spend the coins and they will recirculate.

The small miners don't actually have enough coins to spend to influence the market in any way, besides that even big miners need to pay bills, so they will probably spend or sell mined coins too.

.. when they see the huge drop in price and how fast it is going to happen.
I am only thinking for myself but if the market drops as rapidly as i think it will when tons of these machines get rolling..

Why should different mining hardware drop the price, or change the market?
It's not that there'll be any more coins produced, it'll be about 3200BTC per day, no matter if miners run pen&paper, CPUs, GPUs, FPGAs, or ASICS.

I know Die Hard Bitcoiners will always be here till the end but isn't the point to get more people using them as a currency?

Mining isn't the point to get more people using Bitcoin!

I cant possibly understand how the value with ever come back up when you know there will be a few holders of toms of these machines operating and insane Hash rates.

Come back from where?
Those people holding a few of those machines that operate at insane Hashrates are the very same people that operate large GPU-farms today, they get a lot more BTC already today than you do, as stated before, ASICs don't really change that.

..so the short version of it all is yes, you're very wrong

[zvs]

It means a more secure network.  It does mean GPU mining is over, but there's a new technology until the next new technology.

i don't understand this logic, even though it's repeated quite often

yes, to a certain degree it means a more secure network, due to the proliferation of botnets.  

on the other hand, it turns bitcoin generation into an oligarchy, much moreso than it is at the moment

The small miners don't actually have enough coins to spend to influence the market in any way, besides that even big miners need to pay bills, so they will probably spend or sell mined coins too.

marginal propensity to save

the same logic you use here is the same logic that is used to bring taxes down to 0% for 'job creators'

Mining isn't the point to get more people using Bitcoin!

so what?  does it change the fact that it does?

[hathmill]

If price drops it is unlikely that they will be hoarding. If price crash I will by more. If price increase, that it not a problem either if business is not pegging their products to btc.

[lassdas]

Mining isn't the point to get more people using Bitcoin!

so what?  does it change the fact that it does?

No, it doesn't.
If some still want to become miners there's nothing stopping them, it shouldn't  and doesn't matter to them if they need to invest in GPUs, or in ASICs.

But Bitcoin is not about mining, it's about freedom, the hardware used by miners doesn't change that.