Advertising on BFL website is very misleading to NEW CUSTOMERS

[smoothie]

Yep, BFL updated their website... But I see they're still using that scammy/scummy sales tactic of downplaying the time it will take to receive the product.

They use this exact wording on the order now page: "Pre-order Terms: Bitforce SC (ASIC) products are in final stage development with initial shipping scheduled for the last half of February 2013. Products are shipped according to placement in the order queue."

If you didn't read these forums, you would not know that you aren't receiving your unit until much later than February. There are so many pre-orders ahead of people ordering right now + they don't even have a working prototype. The "pre-order terms" on the order now page make it seem like you'll be getting your ASIC in February too with the people at the front of the line, when in reality it will most likely be July or later.

BFL are such sleaze balls with their scummy marketing.

So Josh/BFL, perhaps you can comment on these misleading statements on your website?

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[mjester93]

Well, I'm pretty sure if someone was planning on spending hundreds or thousands of dollars, one would do the reading/research beforehand.

[crazyates]

They use this exact wording on the order now page: "Pre-order Terms: Bitforce SC (ASIC) products are in final stage development with initial shipping scheduled for the last half of February 2013. Products are shipped according to placement in the order queue."

I fail to see how anything in this statement is inaccurate or false in any way.

[CoinHoarder]

They use this exact wording on the order now page: "Pre-order Terms: Bitforce SC (ASIC) products are in final stage development with initial shipping scheduled for the last half of February 2013. Products are shipped according to placement in the order queue."

I fail to see how anything in this statement is inaccurate or false in any way.

Exactly, I'm pretty sure a lawyer wrote that sentence... the terms are 100% accurate because of the last sentence: "Products are shipped according to placement in the order queue."

It conveniently doesn't mention that the queue is 200 TH+ deep. The first sentence makes it sound like you will get your product in late February. You seriously don't see how this statement is at the very least slightly misleading??  

I don't think this needed to be made into a thread, but I just wanted to point out BFL is still using the ole October November December January February March sales pitch.
Note: February is struck through based on my prediction of what will happen... A pretty easy bet IMO seeing as it's already the 17th. I wouldnt be suprised to have to srtikethrough march in a couple months either...  

[PeterChang]

Look we all know that this is a pre-ordered product and it takes time to design/manufacture these innovative devices. Customers willing to place down hundreds or thousands of dollars have done their due diligence with ordering. Also, potential buyers of ASIC miners know that it's not a get rich product rather it's a device to mine Bitcoins for the long-term. If a customer mistakenly purchased a unit and didn't receive it by the end of February they could always request a refund from BFL.

[The-Real-Link]

Relax.  Anyone spending significant money will contact or ask them when they'd be receiving their units.

Anyone who doesn't bother to read the details may, potentially, get screwed, but that's in practically everything.  I see how yes, it'd make sense to state that "Current orders will be fulfilled once the queue is empty." or "Approximately 3-6 month delay."; something like that but well, that's not good for business.  They're telling everything correctly, just selectively, which is what plenty of businesses do.

[Micon]

Firstly, much of BFL's ads don't say pre-order to start:



secondly, they are at the very, very least guilty of using pre-order money to fund R&D.  I have long said that I may in fact lose my bets if BFL gambles hard with btc-community pre-order money and wins - but I have this feeling that they are not close to winning, and they are making the final money-grabs before too many ASICs are out there from legitimate suppliers.

[nathanrees19]

Firstly, much of BFL's ads don't say pre-order to start:



secondly, they are at the very, very least guilty of using pre-order money to fund R&D.

Take a look at their competitor. They flat out refuse to offer any refunds; they seem to be using pre order money for pretty much everything. BFL is the slightly lesser evil since they have, at the very least, honored every refund to date.

I have long said that I may in fact lose my bets if BFL gambles hard with btc-community pre-order money and wins

It's interesting how you set it up so they either "lose" and it's a scam, or they "win" and ship yet it's still wrong because gambling.

- but I have this feeling that they are not close to winning, and they are making the final money-grabs before too many ASICs are out there from legitimate suppliers.

Going by the above criteria, they aren't really any legitimate suppliers.

[Unacceptable]

These guys are a joke(Micon,Smoothie).Niether have an order with anyone & complain louder than those of us that do 

You guys need to have your estrogen levels checked 

[smoothie]

...

Take a look at their competitor. They flat out refuse to offer any refunds; they seem to be using pre order money for pretty much everything. BFL is the slightly lesser evil since they have, at the very least, honored every refund to date.

...

No I would rather a vendor tell me upfront you will NOT get a refund than to have a vendor like BFL put up bullshit ads that suggest they have a working product ready to ship right now.

Honesty is better than bullshit, no matter how much sugar you put on a pile of shit...it still tastes like shit (can't speak from experience lol)

[smoothie]

These guys are a joke(Micon,Smoothie).Niether have an order with anyone & complain louder than those of us that do 

You guys need to have your estrogen levels checked 

That is exactly our point.

Because we both dont have orders we are not BIASED at all.

Purely my remarks/comments are based on what I know.

BFL is full of shit...end of story.

Anyone who has a preorder with BFL is BIASED and will say anything to sweet talk BFL into liking them.

KEEP THE BFL FAITH!

You folks should start a new church...call it the Catholic Church of Flies where you guys can worship Pope Josh_BFL/Inaba.

Also you should get those pointy hats...

[crazyates]

Take a look at their competitor. They flat out refuse to offer any refunds; they seem to be using pre order money for pretty much everything. BFL is the slightly lesser evil since they have, at the very least, honored every refund to date.

No I would rather a vendor tell me upfront you will NOT get a refund than to have a vendor like BFL put up bullshit ads that suggest they have a working product ready to ship right now.

Honesty is better than bullshit, no matter how much sugar you put on a pile of shit...it still tastes like shit (can't speak from experience lol)

I can't believe the ridiculousness of that post.

A) You would rather buy from a vendor that doesn't offer refunds? That's so stupid. BFL has given out every refund that has been requested.

B) Their adds never say that they have a product ready to ship. The add you screenshot on the BCT forums links to their website, which has a giant "PRE-ORDER NOW" orange button on their home page, and a bolded pre-order disclaimer on every single product description. I don't know how you want them to be more clear.

C) BFL is the liars and the sugar-coaters? How about Tom and his bASIC fiasco? Now that's a clear cut case of a liar. How about the Avalon team, not releasing tracking numbers at all, or the inaccurate power consumption numbers that were proven wrong by the first unit in a customer's hand. Who's sugar coating now?

D) You wanna talk about shit? Lets talk about that Avalon. Yay, they were the first ASIC to ship. All 4 (at my last count) of them after a solid month. Oh, you want to mine with a half dozen of them? Sorry, you're gonna need to rewire your house. You want to mind with a half dozen Singles? I got your solution right here.

[Unacceptable]

Take a look at their competitor. They flat out refuse to offer any refunds; they seem to be using pre order money for pretty much everything. BFL is the slightly lesser evil since they have, at the very least, honored every refund to date.

No I would rather a vendor tell me upfront you will NOT get a refund than to have a vendor like BFL put up bullshit ads that suggest they have a working product ready to ship right now.

Honesty is better than bullshit, no matter how much sugar you put on a pile of shit...it still tastes like shit (can't speak from experience lol)

I can't believe the ridiculousness of that post.

A) You would rather buy from a vendor that doesn't offer refunds? That's so stupid. BFL has given out every refund that has been requested.

B) Their adds never say that they have a product ready to ship. The add you screenshot on the BCT forums links to their website, which has a giant "PRE-ORDER NOW" orange button on their home page, and a bolded pre-order disclaimer on every single product description. I don't know how you want them to be more clear.

C) BFL is the liars and the sugar-coaters? How about Tom and his bASIC fiasco? Now that's a clear cut case of a liar. How about the Avalon team, not releasing tracking numbers at all, or the inaccurate power consumption numbers that were proven wrong by the first unit in a customer's hand. Who's sugar coating now?

D) You wanna talk about shit? Lets talk about that Avalon. Yay, they were the first ASIC to ship. All 4 (at my last count) of them after a solid month. Oh, you want to mine with a half dozen of them? Sorry, you're gonna need to rewire your house. You want to mind with a half dozen Singles? I got your solution right here.

Careful crazyates.........don't spread the truth........we wouldn't want a double standard,would we   

[Syke]

B) Their adds never say that they have a product ready to ship. The add you screenshot on the BCT forums links to their website, which has a giant "PRE-ORDER NOW" orange button on their home page, and a bolded pre-order disclaimer on every single product description. I don't know how you want them to be more clear.

What website are you looking at? Clicking through the ad goes to http://butterflylabs.com/products?s1 and lets you checkout without ever mentioning the pre-order status. That's no giant "PRE-ORDER NOW" button. That's a giant ORDER NOW button.

[GernMiester]

These guys are a joke(Micon,Smoothie).Niether have an order with anyone & complain louder than those of us that do 

You guys need to have your estrogen levels checked 

+1

[smoothie]

Take a look at their competitor. They flat out refuse to offer any refunds; they seem to be using pre order money for pretty much everything. BFL is the slightly lesser evil since they have, at the very least, honored every refund to date.

No I would rather a vendor tell me upfront you will NOT get a refund than to have a vendor like BFL put up bullshit ads that suggest they have a working product ready to ship right now.

Honesty is better than bullshit, no matter how much sugar you put on a pile of shit...it still tastes like shit (can't speak from experience lol)

I can't believe the ridiculousness of that post.

A) You would rather buy from a vendor that doesn't offer refunds? That's so stupid. BFL has given out every refund that has been requested.

B) Their adds never say that they have a product ready to ship. The add you screenshot on the BCT forums links to their website, which has a giant "PRE-ORDER NOW" orange button on their home page, and a bolded pre-order disclaimer on every single product description. I don't know how you want them to be more clear.

C) BFL is the liars and the sugar-coaters? How about Tom and his bASIC fiasco? Now that's a clear cut case of a liar. How about the Avalon team, not releasing tracking numbers at all, or the inaccurate power consumption numbers that were proven wrong by the first unit in a customer's hand. Who's sugar coating now?

D) You wanna talk about shit? Lets talk about that Avalon. Yay, they were the first ASIC to ship. All 4 (at my last count) of them after a solid month. Oh, you want to mine with a half dozen of them? Sorry, you're gonna need to rewire your house. You want to mind with a half dozen Singles? I got your solution right here.

Hey Dumbass,

The point is that if a vendor says they will not refund (implying they will ship and you cant cancel) at least you can definitively calculate your risk much better than with BFL. BFL could NOT refund all customers right now if all customers were to request a refund all at the same time. That is another way of saying BFL is a PONZI.

BFL on the other hand doesn't tell you when they WILL ship...oh wait...no they do tell you October, November, December, January, February...and keep lying over and over.

At least with a vendor saying they WILL NOT refund YOU KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT>

With BFL you DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT...just more EXCUSES and BULLSHIT.

Go ahead and bow down to your BFL masters and hand them more pre-order money. Get your family to buy in as well. Sell your house, sell your car, sell everything if you trully believe BFL is legit.

LOL

 

[smoothie]

Take a look at their competitor. They flat out refuse to offer any refunds; they seem to be using pre order money for pretty much everything. BFL is the slightly lesser evil since they have, at the very least, honored every refund to date.

No I would rather a vendor tell me upfront you will NOT get a refund than to have a vendor like BFL put up bullshit ads that suggest they have a working product ready to ship right now.

Honesty is better than bullshit, no matter how much sugar you put on a pile of shit...it still tastes like shit (can't speak from experience lol)

I can't believe the ridiculousness of that post.

A) You would rather buy from a vendor that doesn't offer refunds? That's so stupid. BFL has given out every refund that has been requested.

B) Their adds never say that they have a product ready to ship. The add you screenshot on the BCT forums links to their website, which has a giant "PRE-ORDER NOW" orange button on their home page, and a bolded pre-order disclaimer on every single product description. I don't know how you want them to be more clear.

C) BFL is the liars and the sugar-coaters? How about Tom and his bASIC fiasco? Now that's a clear cut case of a liar. How about the Avalon team, not releasing tracking numbers at all, or the inaccurate power consumption numbers that were proven wrong by the first unit in a customer's hand. Who's sugar coating now?

D) You wanna talk about shit? Lets talk about that Avalon. Yay, they were the first ASIC to ship. All 4 (at my last count) of them after a solid month. Oh, you want to mine with a half dozen of them? Sorry, you're gonna need to rewire your house. You want to mind with a half dozen Singles? I got your solution right here.

One other thing...

This is probably one HUGE point that BFL even is guilty of...

YOU FAIL TO MAKE YOUR POINT SO YOU THEN BRING IN OTHER VENDORS AND MAGNIFY THEIR FAULTS TO MAKE BFL LOOK BETTER AND TO GET THE ATTENTION OFF OF BFL. CLASSIC SCAMMY TACTICS.

No one was talking about Avalon, Tom, or bASIC yet you brought them into the picture. Good job.

Fucking fail lol 

[smoothie]

B) Their adds never say that they have a product ready to ship. The add you screenshot on the BCT forums links to their website, which has a giant "PRE-ORDER NOW" orange button on their home page, and a bolded pre-order disclaimer on every single product description. I don't know how you want them to be more clear.

What website are you looking at? Clicking through the ad goes to http://butterflylabs.com/products?s1 and lets you checkout without ever mentioning the pre-order status. That's no giant "PRE-ORDER NOW" button. That's a giant ORDER NOW button.

@Crazyates,

You so failed lol. Nice try to detract from the truth. What you got to say about this now? "ORDER NOW"...but the fucking chips/devices are not even done. MISLEADING

LOL!

[crazyates]

B) Their adds never say that they have a product ready to ship. The add you screenshot on the BCT forums links to their website, which has a giant "PRE-ORDER NOW" orange button on their home page, and a bolded pre-order disclaimer on every single product description. I don't know how you want them to be more clear.

What website are you looking at? Clicking through the ad goes to http://butterflylabs.com/products?s1 and lets you checkout without ever mentioning the pre-order status. That's no giant "PRE-ORDER NOW" button. That's a giant ORDER NOW button.

https://i.imgur.com/dz2UAcV.png

Read my quote again? I can't actually see the adds (don't tell the mods), so I went to http://www.butterflylabs.com/ . I see something that looks like this:



See the "PRE-ORDER NOW" button?

@Crazyates,

You so failed lol. Nice try to detract from the truth. What you got to say about this now? "ORDER NOW"...but the fucking chips/devices are not even done. MISLEADING

LOL![/size][/b]

Yep, large, annoying text means you win. Darn, you got me! 

The point is that if a vendor says they will not refund (implying they will ship and you cant cancel) at least you can definitively calculate your risk much better than with BFL. BFL could NOT refund all customers right now if all customers were to request a refund all at the same time. That is another way of saying BFL is a PONZI.

......

At least with a vendor saying they WILL NOT refund YOU KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT>

With BFL you DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT...just more EXCUSES and BULLSHIT.

So let me get this straight. You're saying that because BFL offers refunds, you can't properly calculate the amount of risk that is involved in pre-ordering from them, and they're a ponzi? But because Avalon doesn't offer refunds, they're the safer bet? The only two options are either offer refunds, or ship products? Avalon doesn't offer refunds, so it's a 100% guarantee you will get a product? But BFL does offer refunds, so there's a chance you won't get your product, so it's not smart to buy from BFL? So. Fucking. Stupid.

Or how about this crazy thought - I don't ask for a refund, and they ship me a Single when it's ready? Or I can ask for a refund, and they give me my money back! How does that make them less attractive?

[Unacceptable]

B) Their adds never say that they have a product ready to ship. The add you screenshot on the BCT forums links to their website, which has a giant "PRE-ORDER NOW" orange button on their home page, and a bolded pre-order disclaimer on every single product description. I don't know how you want them to be more clear.

What website are you looking at? Clicking through the ad goes to http://butterflylabs.com/products?s1 and lets you checkout without ever mentioning the pre-order status. That's no giant "PRE-ORDER NOW" button. That's a giant ORDER NOW button.

https://i.imgur.com/dz2UAcV.png

Read my quote again? I can't actually see the adds (don't tell the mods), so I went to http://www.butterflylabs.com/ . I see something that looks like this:



See the "PRE-ORDER NOW" button?

@Crazyates,

You so failed lol. Nice try to detract from the truth. What you got to say about this now? "ORDER NOW"...but the fucking chips/devices are not even done. MISLEADING

LOL![/size][/b]

Yep, large, annoying text means you win. Darn, you got me! 

The point is that if a vendor says they will not refund (implying they will ship and you cant cancel) at least you can definitively calculate your risk much better than with BFL. BFL could NOT refund all customers right now if all customers were to request a refund all at the same time. That is another way of saying BFL is a PONZI.

......

At least with a vendor saying they WILL NOT refund YOU KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT>

With BFL you DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT...just more EXCUSES and BULLSHIT.

So let me get this straight. You're saying that because BFL offers refunds, you can't properly calculate the amount of risk that is involved in pre-ordering from them, and they're a ponzi? But because Avalon doesn't offer refunds, they're the safer bet? The only two options are either offer refunds, or ship products? Avalon doesn't offer refunds, so it's a 100% guarantee you will get a product? But BFL does offer refunds, so there's a chance you won't get your product, so it's not smart to buy from BFL? So. Fucking. Stupid.

Or how about this crazy thought - I don't ask for a refund, and they ship me a Single when it's ready? Or I can ask for a refund, and they give me my money back! How does that make them less attractive?