Can the the rise of bitcoin price keep GPU and FGPA in the mix?

[hughson]

I was wondering if there is a particular exchange price that bitcoin can rise to to keep the GPU and FGPA Miners still in the bitcoin game?

[davecoin]

You have to look at diff and power cost as well.

[Ploo]

If there's room for GPU/FPGA then there's room for more ASICs which will over time displace the older hardware.

[hughson]

In the the end the rise of Bitcoin price may keep GPU and FGpA in the mix a little longer but when more ASIC are deployed they will eventual leave the game?

[Domrada]

As a GPU miner i am still making 300% profit, so we will have to see a difficulty of 9 million before i'm not profitable at current prices. 

I could very easily see a scenario where the price of bitcoin goes up fast enough to keep me profitable. at least for another 60 days or so. but i don't know how likely it is.

[vdragon]

I was wondering if there is a particular exchange price that bitcoin can rise to to keep the GPU and FGPA Miners still in the bitcoin game?

 Well, if there is a rise it will keep GPU miners longer in the game, and you have to keep in ming, that unless majority of miners are asic, asic miners dont have any benefit of being the majority, maybe keep like 20-30% of network. When all become ASIC, network will adjust the difficulty to 6 blocks/hour, and they will be making less money than gpu miners do now. At that point, lot of people will stop using bitcoin, price will drop with no support. What happens after that I have no clue. This way it was the "power to the people" thing, after that it becomes a rich people game.

[Beepbop]

As long as it doesn't concentrate too much power on too few hands, increasing difficulty and GPU mining becoming unprofitable shouldn't lead to a crash of the BTC price. Does the perceived value of gold go down because it becomes harder and more expensive to mine? On the contrary.

However, what may crash the value of BTC is when
- fewer people feel they need it for buying things
- when speculators (who don't use it to buy things but only hold it) get cold feet and cash out in mass.

At the moment, ASICs are being sold in BTC, but it's not their mining power but rather how one preorder round lasting a few minutes becomes a large part of the economy, that really affects the value of BTC vice the USD. The guys who preorder aren't holding on to BTC after their order has been confirmed, and the ASIC vendors probably aren't holding BTC either - they need to pay their employees, parts suppliers, shipping companies, etc.

The value of a currency - in addition to any numismatic or inherent raw material value - comes from what you can use it for. Since there's no raw material in a BTC, you must either want to exchange it for something now, hope that somebody else will pay for it in the future, or want it because you think it's a neat thing to have. (Like a coin collector who values coins that were subject to a manufacturing defect that makes it invalid as fiat currency, but more valuable as a collector's item.)

When the BTC rises, mining becomes more profitable, but only as a part of a zero sum game with all the other miners.

[tacotime]

No, miners with GPUs will either stop mining or move on to litecoin.  Mining LTC is already 30% more profitable for me, I don't know why anyone would still be GPU mining BTC at this point.

[hughson]

can ASICs be used on litecoin?

[nobbynobbynoob]

can ASICs be used on litecoin?

Not currently.

[hughson]

is it just some software tweak or is it something all LTc miners would need to agree on?

[Jaw3bmasters]

is it just some software tweak or is it something all LTc miners would need to agree on?

Bitcoin use another algorithm.

[hughson]

So an ASIC can be built specifically for litecoin?

[tacotime]

So an ASIC can be built specifically for litecoin?

Yes, but it's significantly more difficult than for BTC and will likely not be 100x faster/more power efficient

See www.tarsnap.com/scrypt/scrypt.pdf

[GernMiester]

I was wondering if there is a particular exchange price that bitcoin can rise to to keep the GPU and FGPA Miners still in the bitcoin game?

 Well, if there is a rise it will keep GPU miners longer in the game, and you have to keep in ming, that unless majority of miners are asic, asic miners dont have any benefit of being the majority, maybe keep like 20-30% of network. When all become ASIC, network will adjust the difficulty to 6 blocks/hour, and they will be making less money than gpu miners do now. At that point, lot of people will stop using bitcoin, price will drop with no support. What happens after that I have no clue. This way it was the "power to the people" thing, after that it becomes a rich people game.

I have been saying the same thing since I started but not so eloquently.  Folks just don't want to accept it. Price of BTC is all that can save us now.

[MangoJ]

No, miners with GPUs will either stop mining or move on to litecoin.  Mining LTC is already 30% more profitable for me, I don't know why anyone would still be GPU mining BTC at this point.

Very interesting.  I have never heard of LTC but if it is 30% better for GPU miners like myself I will look now!
Thanks.

[vdragon]

I was wondering if there is a particular exchange price that bitcoin can rise to to keep the GPU and FGPA Miners still in the bitcoin game?

 Well, if there is a rise it will keep GPU miners longer in the game, and you have to keep in ming, that unless majority of miners are asic, asic miners dont have any benefit of being the majority, maybe keep like 20-30% of network. When all become ASIC, network will adjust the difficulty to 6 blocks/hour, and they will be making less money than gpu miners do now. At that point, lot of people will stop using bitcoin, price will drop with no support. What happens after that I have no clue. This way it was the "power to the people" thing, after that it becomes a rich people game.

I have been saying the same thing since I started but not so eloquently.  Folks just don't want to accept it. Price of BTC is all that can save us now.

 Currently a big part of btc trade is based on shady bussines, and the other big part is based on people, wanting to get something for almost nothing. Those are mostly gpu miners. People follow the logic - I want to pay for mega, why would I? Let the gpu make some money, and pay with it. It costs almost nothing. When these people leave, there will be a huge gap. What happens after the gap, I dont know.

[maxcarjuzaa]

No, miners with GPUs will either stop mining or move on to litecoin.  Mining LTC is already 30% more profitable for me, I don't know why anyone would still be GPU mining BTC at this point.

Very interesting.  I have never heard of LTC but if it is 30% better for GPU miners like myself I will look now!
Thanks.

nahhh miners will hoard their coins untill selling is profitable, ASIC mining will be profitable for a long time.

[Vernon715]

If someone has free electricity they could still make a profit with GPUs

[vdragon]

If someone has free electricity they could still make a profit with GPUs

 True, but in case of difficulty going up 10X or more, it is more profitable to sell cards