The impact of bad crypto (DASH, SDC, etc). How much does math matter?

[toknormal]

So do you think Monero's cryptography is broken

No more broken than SSL.

But SSL is not a store of value. It is a decentralised cryptographic messaging system. Invest in it if you like it.

The only thing that distinguishes a cryptographic messaging system from Bitcoin is that Bitcoin is a public blockchain and cryptographically obscurred blockchains are not.

Thats what makes Bitcoin money.

If it was not a public blockchain and everyone could not inspect every single address - regardless of whether they possesed a private key to that address or not - then it would not constitute (base) money.

[smooth]

I'm asking to see the public blockchain, where everyone can see all the balances.

Do you realise you're talking about gold ?

Yes, I would like to see the public balances. Please post a link.

I don't care that I can do all sorts of chemical tests to verify the validity of the gold, I want to see how much each account has on a public blockchain.  

[TPTB_need_war]

No, high school math is good enough    - 7 (31.8%)

Oh my. 

[toknormal]

I don't care that I can do all sorts of chemical tests to verify the validity of the gold, I want to see how much each account has on a public blockchain.  

Hey. You got me there - you'd better ask the holders 

[generalizethis]

So do you think Monero's cryptography is broken

No more broken than SSL.

But SSL is not a store of value. It is a decentralised cryptographic messaging system. Invest in it if you like it.

The only thing that distinguishes a cryptographic messaging system from Bitcoin is that Bitcoin is a public blockchain and cryptographically obscurred blockchains are not.

Thats what makes Bitcoin money.

If it was not a public blockchain and everyone could not inspect every single address - regardless of whether they possesed a private key to that address or not - then it would not constitute (base) money.

What makes Bitcoin money is that people believe it is money. End of story. If you want to poke around and see everyone's balances and transactions like some financial perve, be my guest, but it's people like you that make me want to keep my transactions and balance as private as possible.

[toknormal]

What makes Bitcoin money is that people believe it is money. End of story.

Not end of story.

The reason they believe it's money is that they can see it's money.

On the other hand, with an obscured blochain they can't see f*ck all. (Hence the title "obscured"). So it's even less believable. The words emperor and clothes spring to mind

[generalizethis]

What makes Bitcoin money is that people believe it is money. End of story.

Not end of story.

The reason they believe it's money is that they can see it's money.

On the other hand, with an obscured blochain they can't see f*ck all. (Hence the title "obscured"). So it's even less believable. The words emperor and clothes spring to mind

I can see my balance and I can see my transactions and I know that the ring signitures work, so I don't need anyone (especially a wanabee economist) to tell me that I need to see other people's balances for it to be money. I think you missed the meeting where we discussed that the highest form of human functioning is to think in the abstract, to imagine concepts into being. As long as the cryptography checks out, I'm good. Don't need your seeing is believing concept of money to infringe on my right or anyone else's right to privacy.

[toknormal]

I don't need anyone (especially a wanabee economist) to tell me that I need to see other people's balances for it to be money

Firstly, in this case, we're talking about unbacked money, so I'm afraid you do.

Secondly, a blockchain is anonymous - like a rock. So the fact that you hold a piece of it doesn't endow it with your identity. Nobody is therefore "seeing your balance" by catching sight of that piece of rock.

You can relax.

[toknormal]

Goodnight.

[generalizethis]

I don't need anyone (especially a wanabee economist) to tell me that I need to see other people's balances for it to be money

Firstly, in this case, we're talking about unbacked money, so I'm afraid you do.

Secondly, a blockchain is anonymous - like a rock. So the fact that you hold a piece of it doesn't endow it with your identity. Nobody is therefore "seeing your balance" by catching sight of that piece of rock.

You can relax.

Are you stupid or does metadata not exist in your myopic view of the world--it's rhetorical. It's backed by the cryptography being secure and the parameters that the miners agree upon--so no, I don't need to see what happens to the transactions that don't belong to me.  This lackadaisical attitude towards privacy explains dash's shoddy design-- "just relax, we've got it all under control, OSPEC? That's overkill, just put your node on amazon."

Also, your idea of money falls flat on its face when applied to a coin that uses an insecure chain like X11. An attack can go on for so long that there is no way to roll back the chain as a fix--so maybe, just maybe, the cryptography is more important than just a bunch hs mathers eyeballing the blockchain and saying, "Looks good, must be money."

[AlexGR]

Why would I want respect from the community of a coin with a broken design
....
Sorry when I build up Monero because I state facts that are true about it

Monero #REKT 
XMR #badcrypto #broken #veryREKT

[generalizethis]

Why would I want respect from the community of a coin with a broken design
....
Sorry when I build up Monero because I state facts that are true about it

Monero #REKT 
XMR #badcrypto #broken #veryREKT

Out of context much? You little creep.

The only sure way to gain respect in the Bitcoin community is to contribute code.

Why would I want respect from the community of a coin with a broken design that I aim for my project to supercede    (note no one is excluded from leaving the broken design and joining the winner)

iCEBREAKER, just admit you can't understand what I wrote at the linked research.

Good to see iCEBREAKER is still going to need some proof from me. I love the competitiveness.

Sorry when I build up Monero because I state facts that are true about it, it doesn't mean anything has changed in terms of my plans. Hell will freeze over before I will ever write a line of code for Monero[1]. No disrespect to those who created Monero, they will be welcome to join the winner.

(can you tell I am getting healthy now, lol)

[1] I am not going to get involved in any C++ source code bases, so no bitcoind and no Monero. I know C++ since I wrote CoolPage (million user app) in it, but been there, done that, never again. More importantly, I want to change the world, so I am not going to get involved with designs that can't possible scale to 1 million transactions per second. That would be a waste of my legacy. And I am not going to get involved with communities that are off in their little corner of the internet and haven't attracted superstar non-anonymous programmers. I want to see LinkedIn accounts and career history plus major accomplishments. Gmaxwell and Adam Back don't count, because they are number theoretic/cryptography nerds. They are not systems engineers (which was obvious in my technical debate with gmaxwell regarding the indexing of streaming audio formats) and certainly not savvy marketers for the large scale adoption we need. Honestly I think smooth is very smart, but I have no idea who he is and what he has done in his career in detail. I have some vague public rumor (and his private statement) that he worked in FinTech.

[AlexGR]

Now that you quoted the entire post, does it change the fact that he says MONERO IS A BROKEN DESIGN?

[iCEBREAKER]

Ladies & Gentlemen, I present to you the Toknormal Memorial DashHole Ignorance Hall of Fame.   

Gold is a public blockchain

Cryptography has never been a significant part of cryptocurrency - even though it may share the first few letters.

[smooth]

I don't care that I can do all sorts of chemical tests to verify the validity of the gold, I want to see how much each account has on a public blockchain.  

Hey. You got me there - you'd better ask the holders 

The Monero holders or the gold holders?

[TPTB_need_war]

Now that you quoted the entire post, does it change the fact that he says MONERO IS A BROKEN DESIGN?

Not quite. I said Bitcoin is broken and both can't scale to million tx/s. But that doesn't make Monero broken for its target market. Bitcoin is broken both for scaling and for centralization of mining. Monero has advantages on the latter and also adds strong privacy.

My reasons for not wanting to be folded into the development group of Monero, is because I would be a little fish in a little pond. And I am not enthralled about coding on C++ code bases. So what is the redeeming factor, when I have so much opportunity and excitement on what I am working on now? I find it a bit insulting (but more humorous and motivates my competitive fire) when iCEBREAKER and americanpegasus insinuate that the only useful coding I could do in this world would be on the itsy bitsy coins they own. That is because they are speculators and not developers. The developers don't say that to me, because they know better.

[AlexGR]

Now that you quoted the entire post, does it change the fact that he says MONERO IS A BROKEN DESIGN?

Not quite. I said Bitcoin is broken and both can't scale to million tx/s.

I thought you were referring specifically to the bloat issue that affects monero's scaling way more than bitcoin since bitcoin doesn't suffer from the same problem.

Regarding Monero's anonymity, do you stand by the statement you've expressed below in the past (regarding broken anonymity due to metadata correlation)?

Cryptonote was created by anonymous people. Even Monero's cryptographer is anonymous. Who created this anonymity that is easily broken by meta-data. I don't know if that is circumspect or just the way the world turns.

As for scaling... well scaling is a complex equation involving time, technology available, proper use of the available technology and the ratio of centralization/decentralization that is "acceptable" at any given moment.

We could say that everything can scale (if...) or everything can't scale (if....), or everything can scale in (x time), or under (z circumstances).... etc etc. The good thing with scaling is that unlike hardware and software progress, human tx needs are finite and thus the two trajectories (of increased tech progress vs finite human tx needs) will meet. If we currently, as a species, say, need 100k tx per second, there is a point where this will be feasible. And as time progresses we will be able to handle a million, ten millions, etc etc. But tx needs will still remain in a pattern of relative stability - slow growth.

[TPTB_need_war]

Regarding Monero's anonymity, do you stand by the statement you've expressed below in the past (regarding broken anonymity due to metadata correlation)?

Cryptonote was created by anonymous people. Even Monero's cryptographer is anonymous. Who created this anonymity that is easily broken by meta-data. I don't know if that is circumspect or just the way the world turns.

Against the NSA yes I stand by the assertion that IP address correlation unmasks, overlapping rings unmask, etc. It all adds up if you are trying to hide from governments, then I don't trust Monero or any anonymous coin. Notice I wrote "privacy" and not anonymity in prior post upthread. For privacy, I think Monero is suitable and Dash is not (because not autonomous End-to-End).

[generalizethis]

Now that you quoted the entire post, does it change the fact that he says BITCOIN IS A BROKEN DESIGN?

FTFY

Now apologize for misreading and misquoting what was pretty obvious for anyone with high school reading skills.

[AlexGR]

Now that you quoted the entire post, does it change the fact that he says BITCOIN IS A BROKEN DESIGN?

FTFY

Now apologize for misreading and misquoting what was pretty obvious for anyone with high school reading skills.

Yeah because if he considers bitcoin as "broken" due to its scaling which is 10 times better than monero, then monero ...isn't broken

Dat logic.

And he also asserted time and time again (even two posts above) that the anonymity is broken against the state due to metadata correlation.

Against the NSA yes I stand by the assertion that IP address correlation unmasks, overlapping rings unmask, etc. It all adds up if you are trying to hide from governments, then I don't trust Monero or any anonymous coin.

#badycrypto XMR  

People who love to be free from government oppression and used XMR = #REKT