Are POS now legit?

[BitcoinNational]

really?

POS was crap-o-la before
now the line is
"Yeah but ETH is going to go POS later this year"
"Yeah but Peer will eventually fork to 100% POS, so don't worry about the inflation"

 

[klarki]

really?

POS was crap-o-la before
now the line is
"Yeah but ETH is going to go POS later this year"
"Yeah but Peer will eventually fork to 100% POS, so don't worry about the inflation"

 

Just after inflation is adjusted by changing the remuneration for the unit.
And about the Ethereum, and developers do not really know whether or not to run the POS.

[mobnepal]

Yes still ethereum developers have not decided to goto POS. And i believe more on POW as staking doesn't involve work or doesn't seem to reflect actual meaning of cryptocurrency should have. I love POW based coins.

[robelneo]

I am very much into staking coins,because every body can participate and doesn't involve high priced hardware and beside you can stakes 5 wallet simultaneously but cannot mine 5 coins simultaneously

[fortunecrypto]

Many new altcoins are POS or Pow/Pos ,it's more convenient and economical,Pos are created for average joe who do not know how to set up a mining rig or buy those pricey mining rigs,in the future majority of the successful altcoins are POS type

[BitMaxz]

Honestly some pos are legit and i am choosen pos than pow because i dont have money to buy hardware to mine a coins..
So i decided to choose pos because i can gradually increase the amount of wallet for buying and taking campaign like swag bucks. and staking it in my wallet to increase day by day..

[evergrow]

Why was POS 'crap' before? Is this your personal opinion?

[Amph]

I am very much into staking coins,because every body can participate and doesn't involve high priced hardware and beside you can stakes 5 wallet simultaneously but cannot mine 5 coins simultaneously

it has a dangerous side effect about coin monopoly, and easy dumping, from everyone

especially if staking is high or if the coins has a high value like bitcoin for example

for bitcoin the value is given by two factors right now, speculation and pow, with pos you would only get speculation...

[tiggytomb]

I don't have a problem with POS as long as it never comes into force with bitcoin, it is a nice feature and a great way to encourage people to hold onto their coins.

[kiklo]

I am very much into staking coins,because every body can participate and doesn't involve high priced hardware and beside you can stakes 5 wallet simultaneously but cannot mine 5 coins simultaneously

for bitcoin the value is given by two factors right now, speculation and pow, with pos you would only get speculation...

That is a common misunderstanding,   
PoW coins are all speculation , as all of the actual value is in the ASICS.
(Remove the ASICS and your PoW coin network dies.)
Their Speculation is in the hopes that some utility purpose gives them value in the future.
Currently BTC utility is a trading medium for Alt coin & international currency Exchange which due to its slowness and community confusion may pass to LTC or DOGE.
(Doge is currently superior over BTC in making Micropayments, which used to be a BTC selling point.)

PoS coins have an intrinsic value, since they are technically their own mining equipment.
So they automatically have the utility of making more of their own coins and keeping their own network running.
More Utility uses will follow as economically PoS is sustainable by the masses and PoW is destined to be Elite controlled because of economic factors.

   

[paratox]

That is a common misunderstanding,  
PoW coins are all speculation , as all of the actual value is in the ASICS.
(Remove the ASICS and your PoW coin network dies.)
Their Speculation is in the hopes that some utility purpose gives them value in the future.
Currently BTC utility is a trading medium for Alt coin & international currency Exchange which due to its slowness and community confusion may pass to LTC or DOGE.
(Doge is currently superior over BTC in making Micropayments, which used to be a BTC selling point.)

PoS coins have an intrinsic value, since they are technically their own mining equipment.
So they automatically have the utility of making more of their own coins and keeping their own network running.
More Utility uses will follow as economically PoS is sustainable by the masses and PoW is destined to be Elite controlled because of economic factors.

   

The actual value in PoW coins comes from the electricity that is used to run the ASICS  

[kiklo]

The actual value in PoW coins comes from the electricity that is used to run the ASICS  

Another often quoted misconception.  

Reason being if the PoW coin value is directly correlated from the price of the amount of electricity used to create it.
Why is the PoW coin Price not represented (ie: Price goes up) as it takes more electricity to create a new one.
Reason being a growing supply of coins will always decrease price per coin if there is no growth in demand.
Growth in demand can only happen if more or increased utility uses are found for the coin.
BTC has only being a trading medium for Alt coin & international currency Exchange.
Recently BTC is no longer viable as a micropayment option, so they have lost a utility use to Doge.
(Electricity is irrelevant except as a input cost which decreases profit margins)

Example BTC is getting ready to Halve,
therefore it will takes twice the amount of electricity to create a new one, which implies instead of $450 per coin the new price should be $900 per coin.
That won't happen, so there is no direct correlation between a PoW coin and the amount of electricity needed to create it.  


 

[stoat]

True pos hasn't been invented yet.  It's like the fusion reactor. ETH team are the closest currently, and I believe will succeed in achieving true POS.

[kiklo]

True pos hasn't been invented yet.  It's like the fusion reactor. ETH team are the closest currently, and I believe will succeed in achieving true POS.

Hmm,
ZEIT , Noble, Mint , HBN, Sprouts, & Tek all seemed like real Proof of Stake coins to me.

ETH has a big elephant in the room, no one is paying attention too, their blockchain is growing at ~1 Gigabyte per month and that will increase as more people use it. Even PoS coins with a 30 second block time don't usually add more than ~1 gigabyte per year.
It seems like their idea is just going to be ignored due to requiring too many resources while providing too few features, IMO.

 

[d5000]

Of course, PoS is legit

But you should keep watching the development if you invest in a PoS coin. PoS has its own challenges - above all, the Nothing@Stake attack family - and so there have to be taken measures to make this attack costly or difficult. NXT for example has pretty good counter-measures to N@S, ETH - if it goes PoS at all - too, I don't know exactly about NEM but I think it should have some part of the PoI algorithm dedicated to N@S combat.

Don't invest in a "dead" PoS coin without active development or ancient code. It may be proven insecure at a moment.

[r0ach]

No, PoS is not legit.  All closed entropy systems are technically permissioned ledgers that are not decentralized, which will likely give them enormous legal problems in the future, especially if you issued one via IPO.  Prepare to go hide out in the mountains of Afghanistan if you did.  The same holds true for IOTA where the open entropy of the system is abstracted away from block reward entirely, giving it the same legal problems as any fly by night PoS IPO scam.

[achimsmile]

No, PoS is not legit.  All closed entropy systems are technically permissioned ledgers that are not decentralized, which will likely give them enormous legal problems in the future.

All stock markets are, in your words "permissioned extortion schemes" as well, will it give them enormous legal problems?

[r0ach]

No, PoS is not legit.  All closed entropy systems are technically permissioned ledgers that are not decentralized, which will likely give them enormous legal problems in the future.

All stock markets are, in your words "permissioned extortion schemes" as well, will it give them enormous legal problems?

The stock market consists of people who aren't anonymous coming to the table and saying, "buy this shit from me", with some expectation of returns.  It's a market subsidized by the government where they use coercive powers to "presumably" stop people from running blatant scams.  If you issue things in a centralized fashion the way they do, they lump you into the same legal framework.

There are a few coins like peercoin and blackcoin that are entirely mined that might escape this legal framework, but they're still closed entropy systems that aren't decentralized currencies.  Not to mention having horrible fault/state recovery and millions of other problems making them inferior to PoW

Go read the IOTA thread.  Much of what applies to IOTA in this thread also applies to proof of stake coins:

IOTA - Permissioned ledger Russian extortion scheme

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1414866.0

[d5000]

r0ach: Even if your assumptions are true, there are many PoS coins that are not completely closed because many units are created by traditional PoW mining (Peercoin being the most prominent, Decred a newer one, and in the future perhaps ETH, if it goes PoS). And there are many countries with distinct regulations (NXT, for example, was probably coded  in Eastern Europe), so there may be countries better suited for an PoS-coin IPO than the US.

I must add that I'm not a friend of cryptocurrency IPO/ICOs. I agree that they are often intransparent and scammy. The Peercoin distribution mechanism with hybrid PoW/PoS is, in my opinion, fairer. But PoW in large cryptos such as Bitcoin has also high entrance costs, not everybody can participate.

[r0ach]

r0ach: Even if your assumptions are true, there are many PoS coins that are not completely closed because many units are created by traditional PoW mining (Peercoin being the most prominent,

It does not matter if you have mining TEMPORARILY, for the purpose of mining in Bitcoin is to create a permanent decentralized exchange, and this is where your permissionless system originates from.  Without permanent mining, you're a closed entropy permissioned ledger.  The consensus mechanism is not what defines the cryptocurrency, the act of creating a permanent decentralized exchange is.  The proof of stake creators did not understand this.

Even if you do not care and want to purchase a permissioned ledger and not an actual decentralized currency, it's still a worse consensus mechanism than PoW.