The unprofessional look to sites

[Zedster]

I am not trying to start a sh** storm here I just am wondering what a lot of these sites see as a long term goal.

I have to say the majority of sites for BTC gambling (and many other things for that matter) look very unprofessional and like Joe Ijustwantyourmoney coded them.  Interfaces from the 80s and some non existent IMO. Even S.Dice interface sucks for the average Joe, once again IMO. They say they are upgrading though.  Bitmillions had made a nice attempt and very nice site.  Placing a bet is still a huge PITA.

For the usual BTC nerd this may not be problem but to actually expand your own brand and the BTC brand these types of sites do very little and are probably more of a detriment to the BTC brand.

Yes for the most part I am just talking about aesthetics of a site but this is also the first impression people get of a site. If it looks unprofessional I know I am reluctant to play there and usually don't. If it looks bad what about the code underneath, scary.

So my question is what can the long term goal of these sites be?  I have a couple ideas that I would like to start but I am very reluctant to put out a product just to be first to market but it looks and operates like crap and would never get past these forums for users. 

I admit my business experience is limited but with a advertising and graphics background I just don't see how these places can have a future?  Are you all just trying to get out the door and build upon that?  Is that a good business model?

Once again not trying to start anything and I have not bad mouthed any sites in particular.  I would just like hear your thoughts.

-Z

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[SRoulette]

Are you all just trying to get out the door and build upon that?

For us, that is exactly the case and worded very nicely, hope you dont mind if I steal the phrase

Is that a good business model?

Perhaps, but it is a good hobby model which I believe a lot of these are.

Our initial site was terrible but functional, the type of site that would appeal to a unix nerd from the 80's.
This comes as no surprise as it was our programmers test front end, I put lipstick on that pig and took it to the show.

In the earlier days we did seek help with javascript, php and general graphics design but it actually harder than you think.
So many mock ups and while many were good, none of them had the exact style we wanted and many were simply out of our price range for a side project.
The functionality we were needed was not there and at that stage our engine structure was not solidified, so we ended up googling CSS and PHP lessons and built up the front end to what we have currently.

This in itself has been a valuable lesson for us as we now have a better idea of what to ask a graphic designer for next time we plan a refresh.

As a learning experience, running a small bitcoin business is invaluable.
Our plans for the future, bigger better and  prettier 

[Zedster]

Are you all just trying to get out the door and build upon that?

For us, that is exactly the case and worded very nicely, hope you dont mind if I steal the phrase

Is that a good business model?

Perhaps, but it is a good hobby model which I believe a lot of these are.

Our initial site was terrible but functional, the type of site that would appeal to a unix nerd from the 80's.
This comes as no surprise as it was our programmers test front end, I put lipstick on that pig and took it to the show.

In the earlier days we did seek help with javascript, php and general graphics design but it actually harder than you think.
So many mock ups and while many were good, none of them had the exact style we wanted and many were simply out of our price range for a side project.
The functionality we were needed was not there and at that stage our engine structure was not solidified, so we ended up googling CSS and PHP lessons and built up the front end to what we have currently.

This in itself has been a valuable lesson for us as we now have a better idea of what to ask a graphic designer for next time we plan a refresh.

As a learning experience, running a small bitcoin business is invaluable.
Our plans for the future, bigger better and  prettier 

Of course you can steal my phrase sir.  I will send a bill later   And just so ya know I was in no way referring to your site

Very well put yourself on the rest of your post.  I kinda suspected this was the case and also I am still thinking a bit as a normal fiat business.  I tend to forget actually how young BTC is really.  I am also coming from a different angle than most starting here now.  I am not a coder at all. I am a 3D and graphics designer.  So any idea I would come up with comes that extra degree of difficulty of finding someone to work with.

Thank you much for your insight and maybe I will pick your brain later down the road if that would be alright.

[nelisky]

I would almost argue that lovely, flashy and round-cornered designs are indicators that a site is very profitable, which for gambling sites just starting doesn't really raise the expected outcome for players.

It might just be me, and granted I'm a coder by trade, but SD's older site design was easier for me to understand, and that's the one I based diceoncrack on. There are *many* things that are wrong with our design, and some are even functional, but we can only dedicate so much time to this pet project. Until it pays off like SD and we can justify employing people to dedicate serious effort, I'd rather spend all my free time making sure the core works as solidly as possible and the UI is fully functional.

Just my 2 satoshis on the matter.

[blockbet.net]

Easy to agree with the previous posts. It's important to know what your strengths are, and build your site around those. I have a background in business, not graphics or coding, so I didn't want to try anything too fancy with our site and instead focused on the functionality and making sure the core information is easy to find. The first build of the site was horrible, but during time we've gotten it pretty close that what we think it should be. There actually have been some graphical updates that we've ultimately had to reject because we thought that they made the site harder to use.

And it actually has been quite fun learning about HTML, CSS, Javascript and so on in the process! I recommend you don't spend too much time worrying about your site's look, launch it when it's ready, make sure everything works, and then build according to user feedback.

[Zedster]

I would almost argue that lovely, flashy and round-cornered designs are indicators that a site is very profitable, which for gambling sites just starting doesn't really raise the expected outcome for players.

It might just be me, and granted I'm a coder by trade, but SD's older site design was easier for me to understand, and that's the one I based diceoncrack on. There are *many* things that are wrong with our design, and some are even functional, but we can only dedicate so much time to this pet project. Until it pays off like SD and we can justify employing people to dedicate serious effort, I'd rather spend all my free time making sure the core works as solidly as possible and the UI is fully functional.

Just my 2 satoshis on the matter.

Absolutely sir. Wrapping a turd in pretty box with a bow is not gonna win ya any prizes either.  The ground work must be solid.  I have worked a bit on interfaces and know what a pain it can be.  I can not pretend to imagine what is actually going on behind that and I am quick to assume that is all in place.

Please folks nothing malicious was meant by this thread. Just learning. Maybe I can pick up some of your guys mistakes before I make them. If I ever decide to dive in.

[Zedster]

I guess a failed to realize before, like a said before, the immaturity of the BTC as currency and maybe I am thinking a bit too far in the future.  You could not very well start many of the kinds of business and sites to which I am referring for fiat money today expect to make money.

And if all goes as the community plans, you will find it hard to start up such company from the ground floor as people are today in a few years.

But I believe also that now is time to be considering how is the best way to get Joe 1stBitcoin to your site and keep him there.

[ShaTwo]

Bitmillions had made a nice attempt and very nice site.  Placing a bet is still a huge PITA.

Thanks! We worked really hard to differentiate our site from the rest. With regards of placing bets, I don't think is a huge PITA as you mention, but was the easiest way we could find, people don't like to register or fill forms, so our way to do it I think is the easiest approach we could think of.

Anyways, I agree, some times I fell like I am at the beginning of the internet again!

[Zedster]

Bitmillions had made a nice attempt and very nice site.  Placing a bet is still a huge PITA.

Thanks! We worked really hard to differentiate our site from the rest. With regards of placing bets, I don't think is a huge PITA as you mention, but was the easiest way we could find, people don't like to register or fill forms, so our way to do it I think is the easiest approach we could think of.

Anyways, I agree, some times I fell like I am at the beginning of the internet again!

OK maybe it's not a huge PITA but for Granny JustgotaBitcoin (of which I am sure there are many!) it is probably a bit overwhelming. I am sure you will improve as time passes. Gratz on the site and good luck.

[b!z]

I agree with you a lot. Many people, including me would rather play on a good-looking site, compared to an ugly one.

[Zedster]

I agree with you a lot. Many people, including me would rather play on a good-looking site, compared to an ugly one.

Human nature for most.

[kworrom]

My thought on the matter is that you can't polish a turd. I'd rather have good betting options with a reliable system that has reasonably fast payouts than an awesome looking but less functional site. Craigslist isn't so popular because of its design, but rather what you can do on it. Same thing with a restaurant: I don't care if it looks crummy outside if when I go in they make a great pizza pie. I believe a ton of new gambling sites using bitcoin need to fully flesh out their features/optimize their system before worrying about looks... but, hey, looking good doesn't hurt.

[bbqsamich]

Maybe the problem is too few front-end developers. I'd be happy to lend a hand at the right price

[SRoulette]

My thought on the matter is that you can't polish a turd.

Mybusters busted  this myth.
While you may never want to, you can indeed polish a turd.

[TTBit]

I grew up watching Flintstones, Woody Woodpecker, Tom & Jerry, etc. The quality of these shows was almost comical itself - how many times can Tom & Jerry run past the same table & window? I can still watch them today. Then the new and improved Tom & Jerry came out 20 years later with much improved computer assisted graphics. Not watchable - it feels like the quality of the show was put into the visual aspects of it. Simple cartoons like southpark today are entertaining.

Along the same lines, I'd rather have a quick loading, text only site than some fancy site that requires the latest plugin.

[MoonShadow]

I am not trying to start a sh** storm here I just am wondering what a lot of these sites see as a long term goal.

I have to say the majority of sites for BTC gambling (and many other things for that matter) look very unprofessional and like Joe Ijustwantyourmoney coded them.  Interfaces from the 80s and some non existent IMO.

I remember the same complaint from some people when Craigslist was new.

It's not about the pretties, it's about the content.  And these sites are very much targeted to a worldwide, but mostly English reading, customer base.  There are way too many websites these days that functionally require either a broadband connection or an image filtering system just so that they can be navigated.

I have broadband, but I still miss the "load images" button that early Netscape browsers had.  I don't doubt that a great many end users, particularly those in nations werein broadband is still rare and bandwidth usage is metered, very much appreciate the low-bandwidth nature of many Bitcoin related sites.

[Zedster]

My thought on the matter is that you can't polish a turd.

Mybusters busted  this myth.
While you may never want to, you can indeed polish a turd.

LOL Great episode.  Huge MB fanboy here.

I grew up watching Flintstones, Woody Woodpecker, Tom & Jerry, etc. The quality of these shows was almost comical itself - how many times can Tom & Jerry run past the same table & window? I can still watch them today. Then the new and improved Tom & Jerry came out 20 years later with much improved computer assisted graphics. Not watchable - it feels like the quality of the show was put into the visual aspects of it. Simple cartoons like southpark today are entertaining.

Along the same lines, I'd rather have a quick loading, text only site than some fancy site that requires the latest plugin.

And you would be in the minority.  First impressions are everything today.  Sure some people don't care about aesthetics but a more larger majority does.

Strange you pick a video medium example, although I understand what you mean. I don't think we are in the same realms what so ever.

I have broadband, but I still miss the "load images" button that early Netscape browsers had.  I don't doubt that a great many end users, particularly those in nations werein broadband is still rare and bandwidth usage is metered, very much appreciate the low-bandwidth nature of many Bitcoin related sites.

But how big of of a consumer base is that?  You may be right but I don't think that is the consumer group must people are shooting for.  Not much of a base.

[MoonShadow]

But how big of of a consumer base is that?  You may be right but I don't think that is the consumer group must people are shooting for.  Not much of a base.

That base is enormous.  Have you ever heard of System D?

[Zedster]

But how big of of a consumer base is that?  You may be right but I don't think that is the consumer group must people are shooting for.  Not much of a base.

That base is enormous.  Have you ever heard of System D?

Now you are talking apples and oranges.

[MoonShadow]

But how big of of a consumer base is that?  You may be right but I don't think that is the consumer group must people are shooting for.  Not much of a base.

That base is enormous.  Have you ever heard of System D?

Now you are talking apples and oranges.

To whom?  I'm talking about paw-paws.