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Author Topic: To anyone believing the solution is a free economy without regulation  (Read 338 times)
yugo23 (OP)
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April 26, 2016, 09:12:34 AM
 #1

I'd advice you to read the grapes of wrath of Steinbeck.
It describes the USA at a time where there was absolutely 0 regulations that's for sure. You'll the real consequences of a "free market". A free market means that only a few incredibly powerful companies own all means of production. If they do, they can easily prevent any outsider from successing, and they can easily abducted the majority of the population and set their own rules as they please.

Can't anyone understand that it is not a solution? I'm not saying that the state regulation we have right now is a good solution, that's not my point! I'm just trying to explain that the absence of regulation might be worse, and even if it's not worse, it's clearly not a solution!
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April 26, 2016, 12:31:06 PM
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I'd advice you to read the grapes of wrath of Steinbeck.
It describes the USA at a time where there was absolutely 0 regulations that's for sure. You'll the real consequences of a "free market". A free market means that only a few incredibly powerful companies own all means of production. If they do, they can easily prevent any outsider from successing, and they can easily abducted the majority of the population and set their own rules as they please.

Can't anyone understand that it is not a solution? I'm not saying that the state regulation we have right now is a good solution, that's not my point! I'm just trying to explain that the absence of regulation might be worse, and even if it's not worse, it's clearly not a solution!

Both options suck. You need a balance or the rich exploit regulation as well.  The divide between rich and everyone else will be driven home in the next ten years and its a cycle. People not being serfs is a blip in this cycle.

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April 26, 2016, 12:49:06 PM
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I haven't read that book, but I've seen the movie (an old one in black and white). Things have changed since then, and that's what makes everything different. Companies like Google or facebook which are making billions these days didn't even exist a generation ago. Maybe in a few years, we will all be driving electric cars, and oil companies which used to be mega powerful will be small fish.

I also expect that some early miners would be mega rich in a few years.

I used to be a citizen and a taxpayer. Those days are long gone.
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April 26, 2016, 01:32:00 PM
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I haven't read that book, but I've seen the movie (an old one in black and white). Things have changed since then, and that's what makes everything different. Companies like Google or facebook which are making billions these days didn't even exist a generation ago. Maybe in a few years, we will all be driving electric cars, and oil companies which used to be mega powerful will be small fish.

I also expect that some early miners would be mega rich in a few years.


Yes i have seen that movie too and it has the same concept.
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April 26, 2016, 02:10:56 PM
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I get your point but the better solution would be equality in terms of regulation by law makers and freedom for users. Anything that is in full control of either party would have consequences as result. Where leaving in a world that abuse of power is a common case now and nothing will ever be the way it supposed to be.
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April 26, 2016, 02:26:01 PM
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1. There always is regulation of sorts, even in a free economy.

2. All governments are companies. One person is not capable of ruling many without help. Thus, a company.

3. The United States government company was set up in ways to keep the government, itself, from becoming an overbearing company. It has worked to a great extent, because of the wisdom of the founding fathers. But it has, also, not worked in many ways because of their foolishness.

4. At the time of the founding of the U.S. gov., everyone understood the 12-person, common law jury. The thing that can keep the U.S. gov. company from becoming more overbearing than it is, is an informed people (the Internet is helping with this) and knowledge of jury nullification.

5. What is jury nullification? It is the ability of the common law jury to determine the outcome and the law of every case brought before it. For example, if the IRS brings a case against me for not filing or paying, and I require the common law jury, they have the right to:
A. Find me guilt on any or all counts;
B. Make me pay any amount;
C. Find the IRS guilty on all counts;
D. Make the IRS pay me any amount;
E. Completely nullify the IRS regarding me in the particular case.
The IRS could appeal, and the trial might have to be done over, but the new jury could do the same as the old.

6. Most people in prison are people who have done no crime, or have done such a petty crime that it was insignificant. Many are there through plea deal, when they could have been set free if:
A. There had been a jury trial...
B. With an informed jury that knew about jury nullification...
C. But rather than an informed-jury trial, they were talked into making a plea deal by their attorney...
D. Who is an officer of the court with first allegiance to the court rather than to his client.


If you really want regulation without overbearing regulation, there are two major things for you to do:
1. Learn about and inform everyone about jury nullification;
2. Support your friends and relatives who are informed jury people, because if they bring a verdict of freedom that is against a big company or the government, these entities will harm the families of the jury that goes against them.

So you see? Grapes of Wrath is still going on today. It simply has a different form.

A good start to understanding what this is all about is to fully learn the stuff at http://voidjudgments.com/.

Cool

EDIT: Btw, from http://voidjudgments.com/detailsvoid.htm, "IF EVERY VOID JUDGMENT WAS VACATED WITH DAMAGES, IT WOULD REPRESENT THE GREATEST SHIFT IN MATERIAL WEALTH IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!"

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April 26, 2016, 05:51:17 PM
 #7

No regulations my ass.
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April 27, 2016, 12:14:53 AM
 #8

No regulations my ass.
Exactly.  There was copious discussion of regulations of various sorts in Grapes of Wrath.

For example, in the methods of takeover of family farms by bankers.
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April 27, 2016, 12:50:30 AM
 #9

I haven't read that book, but I've seen the movie (an old one in black and white). Things have changed since then, and that's what makes everything different. Companies like Google or facebook which are making billions these days didn't even exist a generation ago. Maybe in a few years, we will all be driving electric cars, and oil companies which used to be mega powerful will be small fish.

I also expect that some early miners would be mega rich in a few years.


Times certainly have changed - things are now regulated. As for Google and Facebook, they are making piddly money compared to what the robber barons made at the start of the 20th century.

Here's the list of richest people of all time:

http://time.com/money/3977798/the-10-richest-people-of-all-time/

You'll notice that the Google guys and Zukerberg arn't on it. Bill Gates comes in at #9 with $78 billion. But he is knocked into a cocked hat by John D Rockefeller at #7 with $341 billion and Andrew Carnegie at #6 with $372 billion.

Rockefeller made his money with Standard Oil cornering the entire oil market. The very first regulations - the anti-trust regulations, were brought in by Teddy Roosevelt to break up that monopoly.

 
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