Is everyone on the edge of their seats?

[evolve]

He still posts on SA, I think. 

[Spekulatius]

no, i'm on the yacht i talked about two years ago when i got into bitcoin. lulz!

We need mr buttcoin back. Buttcoin.org

He´'s there but can't come to the keyboard right now, .., still busy.

[arepo]

Nope. Just watching a bubble be a bubble.

The bubble was the summer of 2011. This growth has been sustained and appears to be sustainable as more people adopt Bitcoin.

+1

the hype is the same, the market feels different. more mature. the selloffs aren't causing panic. the buying pressure is strong and consistent. what will happen when the influx of new money stops, though?

[wormbog]

Nope. Just watching a bubble be a bubble.

The bubble was the summer of 2011. This growth has been sustained and appears to be sustainable as more people adopt Bitcoin.

+1

the hype is the same, the market feels different. more mature. the selloffs aren't causing panic. the buying pressure is strong and consistent. what will happen when the influx of new money stops, though?

That will mean BTC holders are no longer willing to trade for fiat and the global takeover is complete.

[piramida]

the hype is the same, the market feels different. more mature. the selloffs aren't causing panic. the buying pressure is strong and consistent. what will happen when the influx of new money stops, though?

Two possibilities. Either new money influx stops, or the influx of new money *really* starts? Like, tens of millions investment sizes - and it very well could happen even inside a very high risk portfolio. Choosing between that and everyone else besides people who already invested in bitcoins losing interest, I pick the optimistic version.

That of course does not mean that big money would start buying everything at offer price quadrupling the price to triple digits; there will be many less stupid moves still, and going down very well might be one of them, just don't hold your breath for a correction to single digits, not going to happen this year.

[molecular]

Well, are you?

Can't explain it, but I'm surprisingly calm. I'm even looking at the charts less frequently than usually.

[Rygon]

no, i'm on the yacht i talked about two years ago when i got into bitcoin. lulz!

We need mr buttcoin back. Buttcoin.org

I love that Bitcoin has a full-time troll with it's own website. I go over there for a laugh every once in a while.

[Technomage]

Can't explain it, but I'm surprisingly calm. I'm even looking at the charts less frequently than usually.

Exactly. The market should be truly overbought once we actually reach the "euphoria" phase. I haven't seen it yet. I haven't felt it yet.

The reason might be that as long as we stay below the all time high, all of this is not that big of a deal. Once we go over the all time high, everything changes. Then we enter a territory where I can imagine getting excited.

Not that I'm not slightly excited already because we're so close to the all time high. But that would be a real game changer.

[Severian]

what will happen when the influx of new money stops, though?

I don't think it will ever stop. If Bitcoin is still running in 40 years and the block reward is down to satoshis, bitcoins will be worth so much that even selling the satoshis will be profitable. Or maybe by then Bitcoin will have succeeded in its mission of destroying all fractional reserve currencies and we're all not worrying so much about money but about things that matter.

A guy can dream, anyway.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Or maybe by then Bitcoin will have succeeded in its mission of destroying all fractional reserve currencies .

Bitcoin can be combined with fractional reserve banking.  It's monetary base inflation to infinity that it kills.

[Severian]

Bitcoin can be combined with fractional reserve banking.  It's monetary base inflation to infinity that it kills.

I don't see how they could coexist in the long run if Bitcoin keeps growing at this rate. Bitcoin will crush FRB if left to its own devices.

[Richy_T]

Bitcoin can be combined with fractional reserve banking.  It's monetary base inflation to infinity that it kills.

I don't see how they could coexist in the long run if Bitcoin keeps growing at this rate. Bitcoin will crush FRB if left to its own devices.

Define FRB. The kind I'm aware of is not incompatible with bitcoin.

I do think Bitcoin could hasten the onset of hyperinflation. If it becomes a mature and respected method of payment, the government may have to accelerate printing to cover its debts (which doesn't work in the long term). Looking at hyperinflation in the Weimar republic, it's possible that Bitcoin is introducing a factor that was otherwise missing in our current scenario compared to that one.

[Severian]

Define FRB. The kind I'm aware of is not incompatible with bitcoin.

My definition might differ from others but it cuts through the frufru: The monopoly granted by the State to a private cartel to issue credit.

Bitcoin can coexist with FRB as it is now just fine. If Bitcoin continues to grow, FRB won't be able to compete. I should have been more clear in what I was trying to say: FRB and Bitcoin can't coexist in the long run anymore than an egg can coexist with a steamroller while in its path.

I do think Bitcoin could hasten the onset of hyperinflation. If it becomes a mature and respected method of payment, the government may have to accelerate printing to cover its debts (which doesn't work in the long term). Looking at hyperinflation in the Weimar republic, it's possible that Bitcoin is introducing a factor that was otherwise missing.

Agreed. We're in pre-hyperinflation right now. Money is losing its value quickly but is still used as a means of exchange. Bitcoin as a more or less honest measure of something (which is more than can be said of FRB) will be the contrasting factor that could induce some inflationary moments in the next couple of years.

I'm sorta looking forward to it, oddly.

[payb.tc]

i think you are confusing fractional reserve banking with the [us] federal reserve bank

[Spaceman_Spiff]

i think you are confusing fractional reserve banking with the [us] federal reserve bank

+1

[Severian]

i think you are confusing fractional reserve banking with the [us] federal reserve bank

All FRB has followed the model I describe, going back to the Bank of England in 1694. The Fed is no different. The State/Crown grants monopoly power to a private cartel to issue the nation's credit and dependent currency. We're all in debt to the same cartel that uses our own money against us.

This 1943 letter by some British Nobel prize winners and various scholars and businessmen lays out the scam nicely:

...Under the world's present financial system the money, except for a now
trifling portion, is originally created by the issue of a loan at interest by the
"bankers", who lend nothing of themselves but in effect make a forced levy in
kind on the Nation by conferring on the borrower the power to purchase a
corresponding amount of wealth on the market, which wealth does not belong to
them, or those who borrow from them, but to the community. The proceeds of the
issue of new money - whether of paper or any other form of credit money -
belong to the Nation in which it is, or is accepted as, legal tender, and not to the
issuer. Herein lies the basic flaw of the existing monetary system.

Demand for Monetary Reform: 1943 letter

The scam of "I'll lend you something I don't really have so you can pretend to be rich while you're actually in debt to me" is as old as money itself. We keep falling for it.

[molecular]

Bitcoin can be combined with fractional reserve banking.  It's monetary base inflation to infinity that it kills.

I don't see how they could coexist in the long run if Bitcoin keeps growing at this rate. Bitcoin will crush FRB if left to its own devices.

Define FRB. The kind I'm aware of is not incompatible with bitcoin.

I do think Bitcoin could hasten the onset of hyperinflation. If it becomes a mature and respected method of payment, the government may have to accelerate printing to cover its debts (which doesn't work in the long term). Looking at hyperinflation in the Weimar republic, it's possible that Bitcoin is introducing a factor that was otherwise missing in our current scenario compared to that one.

technically it is compatible. Think for example you have some ripple banks offering bitcoin. They could FRB. hell, mtGox could be FRBing right now. It's all about transaction cost. If something comes along that is treated by the public and accepted "as if it was a bitcoin" and its transaction/storage cost are even lower than bitcoins, then FRB will likely happen.

[molecular]

Define FRB. The kind I'm aware of is not incompatible with bitcoin.

My definition might differ from others but it cuts through the frufru: The monopoly granted by the State to a private cartel to issue credit.

Bitcoin can coexist with FRB as it is now just fine. If Bitcoin continues to grow, FRB won't be able to compete. I should have been more clear in what I was trying to say: FRB and Bitcoin can't coexist in the long run anymore than an egg can coexist with a steamroller while in its path.

I do think Bitcoin could hasten the onset of hyperinflation. If it becomes a mature and respected method of payment, the government may have to accelerate printing to cover its debts (which doesn't work in the long term). Looking at hyperinflation in the Weimar republic, it's possible that Bitcoin is introducing a factor that was otherwise missing.

Agreed. We're in pre-hyperinflation right now. Money is losing its value quickly but is still used as a means of exchange. Bitcoin as a more or less honest measure of something (which is more than can be said of FRB) will be the contrasting factor that could induce some inflationary moments in the next couple of years.

I'm sorta looking forward to it, oddly.

you are probably correct: Bitcoin is to the US Dollar what the US Dollar is to the Bolivar.

Soon enough the US govt will be engaging in large-scale price-fixing, accusing merchants of greed.

[Rygon]

technically it is compatible. Think for example you have some ripple banks offering bitcoin. They could FRB. hell, mtGox could be FRBing right now. It's all about transaction cost. If something comes along that is treated by the public and accepted "as if it was a bitcoin" and its transaction/storage cost are even lower than bitcoins, then FRB will likely happen.

+1

If mtGox (or any exchange for that matter) ever starts offering interest on coins deposited by giving out loans in BTC, we should all be very afraid of FRB. Not that I think they would do something so brash, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the amount of BTC on mtgox at any given time is some crazy number like 100K+.

Similarly, it could also happen with payment processors that deal with large amounts of BTC and merchants who prefer to keep their balance at the payment processors.

We shouldn't fight FRB, it happens naturally in any currency system. However, we should demand audits on entities who store BTC long-term that have the capability and a profit motive to engage in FRB.

[Richy_T]

We shouldn't fight FRB, it happens naturally in any currency system. However, we should demand audits on entities who store BTC long-term that have the capability and a profit motive to engage in FRB.

Nah, all we need is those entities to be up-front that they are offering FRB and for people to understand the risks. Anything they can offer up to mitigate those risks should be considered as well but not necessarily required.