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Author Topic: A new idea for bitcoin markets  (Read 5420 times)
Sukrim
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February 20, 2013, 09:48:27 PM
 #21

Then it is even worse than bitmarket.eu (who at least hold BTC in escrow) and is not really an "exchange" but just a platform to put up suggested offers that might be filled or not. Depending on external factors (MtGox) and who sends first (remember: BTC transactions are IRREVERSIBLE!) sellers or buyers scam each other into oblivion.

I wasn't asking you to enforce fiat transactions, I wanted to know if you devised a system to make sure fiat transactions are not reversed. Your excuse seems to be "if you are scammed by someone, that's your problem - you should have looked at user ratings" - guess what, even pirateat40 had hugely positive OTC ratings, on SilkRoad a highly rated/trusted dealer decided to suddenly disappear with a lot of BTC and if there's even the possibility a trusted trader could loose access to his/her account and someone else makes offers for them...

Sorry, but if that's really all you propose (platform for offers), then there are already existing and better options out there. I hoped you came up with a better solution, but it looks like a no so far to me.

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mobile4ever
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February 20, 2013, 09:53:18 PM
 #22

Forgive me if I'm off base here, but *total freedom* as you're describing it sounds like *pricing chaos* to me.


I believe people can make up their own minds on what they want to pay. For me, "haggling" for a price is envigorating. Smiley

But... if people need help, there is always this forum to turn to.
Matthew N. Wright
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February 20, 2013, 09:57:20 PM
 #23

if people need help,..

People don't need help, they need markets and thus, speculation. Be taking the market competitiveness out of the equation (and thus the cooperative communication/speculation of desired prices and worth), you're basically stranding any buyers/sellers to an island community situation where someone would sell a shell for $100, only to return to the real world and realize the shell is worth $0.01 USD.

Also, referring to the forum for information would be a form of *centralization*. What do you people use without the forum? Now you see what this other individual is talking about when he refers to this problem as a "holy grail". It is something the newest Ripple implementation was designed to provide, unfortunately they have a problem with potentially harboring more scammers than Bitcoin ever has so long as they avoid vetting their gateways.

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February 20, 2013, 10:08:55 PM
 #24

Then it is even worse than bitmarket.eu (who at least hold BTC in escrow) and is not really an "exchange" but just a platform to put up suggested offers that might be filled or not. Depending on external factors (MtGox) and who sends first (remember: BTC transactions are IRREVERSIBLE!) sellers or buyers scam each other into oblivion.


Its every man and woman for themselves in this world. Forming groups may be good for those who feel vulnerable. But decentralization brings a freedom that comes from the way we are created; "free and independent". Humans have a propensity to abuse power once too much is given to them. Its a large subject to address, but its better to have problems associated with too much freedom than to have problems associated with too little freedom.



I wasn't asking you to enforce fiat transactions, I wanted to know if you devised a system to make sure fiat transactions are not reversed.


No, but if it needs to become an option or feature, it can be included later.



Your excuse seems to be "if you are scammed by someone, that's your problem - you should have looked at user ratings" - guess what, even pirateat40 had hugely positive OTC ratings, on SilkRoad a highly rated/trusted dealer decided to suddenly disappear with a lot of BTC and if there's even the possibility a trusted trader could loose access to his/her account and someone else makes offers for them...

I believe that the scammers showed how strong the idea behind bitcoin really is. There will always be people who are scammed, whatever systems are put into place. Have you ever thought on this?:



"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."          ~ Herbert Spencer




Sorry, but if that's really all you propose (platform for offers), then there are already existing and better options out there. I hoped you came up with a better solution, but it looks like a no so far to me.


I dont know if you saw this yet:


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145389.msg1543784#msg1543784


but this system also gives people an asset, something that puts money into their pocket whether they work or not.
mobile4ever
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February 20, 2013, 10:23:19 PM
Last edit: February 20, 2013, 10:35:19 PM by mobile4ever
 #25




People don't need help, they need markets and thus, speculation. Be taking the market competitiveness out of the equation (and thus the cooperative communication/speculation of desired prices and worth), you're basically stranding any buyers/sellers to an island community situation where someone would sell a shell for $100, only to return to the real world and realize the shell is worth $0.01 USD.





That part (the speculation) will be seen at the hub. Isnt this the target of thieves on most "markets"? I am also providing a source of passive income. For those who buy anything at the beginning of a "bubble" ( the early adopters) they come out ahead. Those who first bought bitcoins are that way today. This is a growing technology that I believe will be a household term soon. We are the "early adopters". The goal is to make this local, so your shell example does not apply.



Quote
Also, referring to the forum for information would be a form of *centralization*. What do you people use without the forum? Now you see what this other individual is talking about when he refers to this problem as a "holy grail". It is something the newest Ripple implementation was designed to provide, unfortunately they have a problem with potentially harboring more scammers than Bitcoin ever has so long as they avoid vetting their gateways.



You may be right there. No problem. Free forum software is already provided by webhosts. One click and ... you have your own.


I went and saw the thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=142150.msg1543739#msg1543739


About Ripple; They have a new product... I think they can improve it, as with anything. If it decentralizes and frees, I am for it.
Sukrim
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February 20, 2013, 10:26:10 PM
 #26

You still didn't clearly state how anyone will make any profit on your platform specifically that makes it different from just speculating on any exchange.
Also your weird habit of marking random words in yellow and white is highly annoying.

I'm outta here, maybe I'll check later if your trip has ended or if you're still writing incoherently, quoting incorrectly and ignoring existing platforms.

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges. No fees(!).
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mobile4ever
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February 20, 2013, 10:27:42 PM
 #27

You still didn't clearly state how anyone will make any profit on your platform specifically that makes it different from just speculating on any exchange.
Also your weird habit of marking random words in yellow and white is highly annoying.

I'm outta here, maybe I'll check later if your trip has ended or if you're still writing incoherently, quoting incorrectly and ignoring existing platforms.


Thanks. Sorry you were annoyed by the colors. If others dont like it, I will stop. Smiley

I realized it is self-perpetuating by the webhosting. I have made a forum to explain more but really I am seeking people who believe what I believe. The details can be hammered out, like Ripple is probably doing.
dacoinminster
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February 20, 2013, 10:40:11 PM
 #28

bitcoinx.org does decentralized exchanges between bitcoins and "colored coins" which are bitcoins with additional meaning. Eventually they will have coins with the color "USD" which solves a piece of the problem if they are successful.

Good luck on your project. Anybody making it easier to buy and sell bitcoins is ok in my book!

mobile4ever
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February 20, 2013, 11:18:03 PM
 #29

bitcoinx.org does decentralized exchanges between bitcoins and "colored coins" which are bitcoins with additional meaning. Eventually they will have coins with the color "USD" which solves a piece of the problem if they are successful.

Good luck on your project. Anybody making it easier to buy and sell bitcoins is ok in my book!


Thanks! I think something needs to be done quickly, before the dollar goes down. The colored coins you are talking about are physically colored?
Sukrim
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February 20, 2013, 11:27:01 PM
 #30

Colored coins are very similar to you taking a 1 USD bill, noting down the serial number and stating that you personally consider this as a "special" 1 USD bill and will hand anyone who gives it back to you 100 USD. Then you sell it for some money.

This has the exact same issues as with colored coins. You might have a "special bill" right now in your back pocket but as long as you don't know about the guy who hands you 100 USD for it, you'll still value it at 1 USD (everybody else will too). Also even if you manage to find about this, buy the special 1 USD bill for 90 USD and go to that guy he might rather ruin his reputation and claim that this was just a joke, you're stupid for paying 90 USD for 1 USD bill and if you have a problem with that you're free to sue him. In $remote_country.

From your question (assuming that you can physically color a virtual item) I still deduct that you still high on whatever it is you consumed that made you come up with this thread.

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges. No fees(!).
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
mobile4ever
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February 20, 2013, 11:45:08 PM
 #31

Colored coins are very similar to you taking a 1 USD bill, noting down the serial number and stating that you personally consider this as a "special" 1 USD bill and will hand anyone who gives it back to you 100 USD. Then you sell it for some money.

This has the exact same issues as with colored coins. You might have a "special bill" right now in your back pocket but as long as you don't know about the guy who hands you 100 USD for it, you'll still value it at 1 USD (everybody else will too). Also even if you manage to find about this, buy the special 1 USD bill for 90 USD and go to that guy he might rather ruin his reputation and claim that this was just a joke, you're stupid for paying 90 USD for 1 USD bill and if you have a problem with that you're free to sue him. In $remote_country.

From your question (assuming that you can physically color a virtual item) I still deduct that you still high on whatever it is you consumed that made you come up with this thread.


Hmmm... maybe I am high on colors? Smiley  
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February 21, 2013, 12:44:01 PM
 #32

You are proposing to sell income-earning / money-making "assets"? In short, "investments" or "business opportunities"?

Or is it just that by using an affiliate scheme, maybe even a multi-level structure of affiliates, you hope to attract affiliates who will try to earn money by selling your idea/product?

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mobile4ever
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February 21, 2013, 01:10:19 PM
Last edit: February 21, 2013, 01:58:29 PM by mobile4ever
 #33

You are proposing to sell income-earning / money-making "assets"? In short, "investments" or "business opportunities"?

Or is it just that by using an affiliate scheme, maybe even a multi-level structure of affiliates, you hope to attract affiliates who will try to earn money by selling your idea/product?

-MarkM-



No, I am not selling anything. I am looking for people who believe like I do, in freedom and decentralization of bitcoin markets. As a benefit they can have a business asset for themselves. I am definitely not a salesman, but this is a great idea.



Edit:

I am creating a system that decentralizes bitcoin markets and will be duplicatable by anyone without them having to know how to code. The side benefit of the decentralization is that the people who duplicate it will have a steady source of income.

I am making one for my own area just as soon as I can.
markm
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February 21, 2013, 02:42:42 PM
 #34

I am making one for my own area just as soon as I can.

Good! Post a link to it as soon as its "about" page or "help" pages or "how it works" pages are ready to make it clear to vistitors what the heck it is and/or what the heck it does and/or how the heck it works, plus presumably exactly how it is that it makes money for them if indeed it is some kind of "income opportunity" or somesuch.

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February 21, 2013, 03:15:02 PM
 #35

I am making one for my own area just as soon as I can.

Good! Post a link to it as soon as its "about" page or "help" pages or "how it works" pages are ready to make it clear to vistitors what the heck it is and/or what the heck it does and/or how the heck it works, plus presumably exactly how it is that it makes money for them if indeed it is some kind of "income opportunity" or somesuch.

-MarkM-




I am seeking a PHP coder to create the plugin now. The site and forum are already up.
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February 21, 2013, 03:32:07 PM
 #36

There's no reason why this can't work, it all makes sense.  It just depends on how many believe in this type of system compared to what's typically out there.  2 is always better than one (especially streams of income) and most btc advocates are investors and entrepreneurs at heart any way.
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February 21, 2013, 03:46:12 PM
 #37

There's no reason why this can't work, it all makes sense.  It just depends on how many believe in this type of system compared to what's typically out there.  2 is always better than one (especially streams of income) and most btc advocates are investors and entrepreneurs at heart any way.


Yeah, you are right. I believe like Simon Sinek that people do not follow someone for what a person does, but for what they believe. John F. Kennedy stated that we are born "free and independent". I believe it! Our money should reflect who we really are. So should the bitcoin markets.

I am learning to be an investor myself. I think I have always been an entrepreneur.
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February 22, 2013, 01:45:01 AM
 #38

Look up the user here whose nick/handle/username is "Dank". You two seem like kindred spirits.

-MarkM-

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February 22, 2013, 02:15:14 AM
 #39

Look up the user here whose nick/handle/username is "Dank". You two seem like kindred spirits.

-MarkM-



Will do. Thanks, but it would seem that most bitcoin users would be interested in more freedom.


Edit: congrats! You just got on the ignore list. Kindly take your negative self elsewhere.
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March 03, 2013, 07:03:32 PM
 #40

People interested in P2P markets may want to read these wiki pages:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Distributed_markets
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Ripple_currency_exchange
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