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Author Topic: A new idea for bitcoin markets  (Read 5418 times)
mobile4ever
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February 20, 2013, 04:21:14 PM
Last edit: March 07, 2013, 10:49:37 PM by mobile4ever
 #1

I believe bitcoin markets should match bitcoin; distributed, and not under the control of centralized groups.
I believe bitcoin markets should not charge fees.
I believe bitcoin markets should not have intrusive ads or ask intrusive questions.
I believe there is a group of people out there who has been waiting for this to happen.


Bank robbers rob banks because they know that is where the money is. Those who
rob current bitcoin markets have the same targets because that is where the bitcoins are.
I believe this needs to change so that thieves no longer have a target online.


This idea of making bitcoin markets decentralized makes bitcoin even more secure.


Some people with some web programming skills would be nice to pull this off. I can do
some of them myself since I have been a webmaster off and on for ten plus years.
I could eventually make it all myself in time. But again, it is against what I believe. Having "one
person in charge" of things is not the goal. Complete decentralization of bitcoin markets is the goal.
If you believe like I do lets work on making it happen.


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markm
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February 20, 2013, 04:48:36 PM
 #2

Are you aware of Ripple.com?

-MarkM-

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mobile4ever
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February 20, 2013, 04:52:20 PM
 #3

Are you aware of Ripple.com?

-MarkM-


I have heard of it. I like my idea better. Ripple is still under the control of a few, right?
DigitalHermit
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February 20, 2013, 04:54:54 PM
 #4


This idea of making bitcoin markets decentralized makes bitcoin even more secure.

Some people with some web programming skills would be nice to pull this off. I can do
some of them myself since I have been a webmaster off and on for ten plus years.
I could eventually make it all myself in time. But again, it is against what I believe. Having "one
person in charge" of things is not the goal. Complete decentralization of bitcoin markets is the goal.
If you believe like I do lets work on making it happen.

Send me a PM...


Perhaps you could explain why the existing decentralized markets are not adequate?

http://bitcoin-otc.com/
http://localbitcoins.com/
http://btcnearme.com/
http://tradebitcoin.com/

mobile4ever
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February 20, 2013, 04:59:57 PM
Last edit: February 20, 2013, 05:57:34 PM by mobile4ever
 #5


This idea of making bitcoin markets decentralized makes bitcoin even more secure.

Some people with some web programming skills would be nice to pull this off. I can do
some of them myself since I have been a webmaster off and on for ten plus years.
I could eventually make it all myself in time. But again, it is against what I believe. Having "one
person in charge" of things is not the goal. Complete decentralization of bitcoin markets is the goal.
If you believe like I do lets work on making it happen.

Send me a PM...


Perhaps you could explain why the existing decentralized markets are not adequate?



http://bitcoin-otc.com/
http://localbitcoins.com/
http://btcnearme.com/
http://tradebitcoin.com/



I am not saying they are not. But with my idea, people make money two different ways. I think I have hit on something here. If they are truly decentralized, that is great, that is what I want, but at the same time I have a "natural engine" that makes people want to share bitcoin with their friends.

Do those sites you listed do that?


Edit: I took a look at the https://localbitcoins.com/ site. It is okay for what it does, but my idea decentralizes more than their site and it appears there is only one way to trade currencies for bitcoin. My idea allows people to make money two ways.

Zangelbert Bingledack
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February 20, 2013, 05:09:26 PM
 #6

Can you elaborate on this "natural engine"? What is your plan?
mobile4ever
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February 20, 2013, 05:15:31 PM
 #7

Can you elaborate on this "natural engine"? What is your plan?

Word of mouth is the natural engine.  Its set up so that people can get their friends in as well and get paid to do so.

By the way, it will go on mobiles.

miscreanity
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February 20, 2013, 05:57:23 PM
 #8

Are you aware of Ripple.com?

-MarkM-
I have heard of it. I like my idea better. Ripple is still under the control of a few, right?

Ripple is essentially a protocol, similar to Bitcoin. With community growth, there will be distribution of control among participating nodes as there is now in Bitcoin.
mobile4ever
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February 20, 2013, 05:58:39 PM
 #9

Are you aware of Ripple.com?

-MarkM-
I have heard of it. I like my idea better. Ripple is still under the control of a few, right?

Ripple is essentially a protocol, similar to Bitcoin. With community growth, there will be distribution of control among participating nodes as there is now in Bitcoin.


Do people make money two ways with Ripple? Is it on mobile devices?
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February 20, 2013, 06:02:50 PM
 #10

A decentralized GLBSE or MtGox, many times people discussed this hear. It has become some kind of Holy Grail for the developing crowd but no one yet had a conclusive idea how to solve the complex batch of problems that goes with it AFAIK.

Have you heard of Bitwasp?:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109223.0
mobile4ever
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February 20, 2013, 06:10:49 PM
 #11

A decentralized GLBSE or MtGox, many times people discussed this hear. It has become some kind of Holy Grail for the developing crowd but no one yet had a conclusive idea how to solve the complex batch of problems that goes with it AFAIK.

Have you heard of Bitwasp?:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109223.0


Holy Grail? This is easy! It will take no amount of coding knowledge to use once it is running. Its for everyone.


I looked at the link. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109223.0)


No, this is based on HTML and a few PHP or javascript plugins. I think the Silkroad is only available using TOR, is that right? There is nothing illegal or nothing to make governments feel "threatened" with my setup.
markm
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February 20, 2013, 06:27:00 PM
 #12

Great then, set it up, if people like it they will use it, if it is free open source they will be able to decentralise it which seems to be what you want them to do, yes?

So put it on github or sourceforge or the like, give us the link, we'll download the code and give it a whirl...

-MarkM-

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mobile4ever
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February 20, 2013, 08:07:07 PM
 #13

Great then, set it up, if people like it they will use it, if it is free open source they will be able to decentralise it which seems to be what you want them to do, yes?

So put it on github or sourceforge or the like, give us the link, we'll download the code and give it a whirl...

-MarkM-



The plugins are for websites and I expect them to be developed in PHP. It is open source in that HTML is open source. It not based on a downloadable piece of software. It is more similar to a plugin for Wordpress.


Plus, the "money part" is based on replication and becomes an asset over time. As usual, the early adopters will make the most, exactly like bitcoin. This can be replicated easily over all the world.

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February 20, 2013, 08:32:26 PM
 #14

A decentralized GLBSE or MtGox, many times people discussed this hear. It has become some kind of Holy Grail for the developing crowd but no one yet had a conclusive idea how to solve the complex batch of problems that goes with it AFAIK.
Most issues are regulatory I guess - if it is possible to register an official e-money issuer that is allowed to receive e.g. EUR and hand out Bitcoin-style (blockchain, scripts etc.) "Eurocoins", there is already a suggestion by Mike Hearn on how to shape transactions in Bitcoin and Eurocoin that could be used as decentralized exchange. The centralized element would then be only the Eurocoin issuer (in any exchange scenario you'd have someone you need to trust, because fiat transactions are not enforcable by you without a lawyer...) but NOT the Eurocoin holder whom you are exchanging to. E-money issuers are not allowed to do fractional reserve, so there's low risk on that front.

Usually the issue is on fiat side and how to enforce anything there - either by involving a 3rd party (e.g. MtGox), a WoT (BTC-OTC) or a combination of both (Ripple). To have a decentralized exchange you don't just need to "revolutionize money", you need some new/unique/special ways on how to deal with fiat money as well!

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges. No fees(!).
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mobile4ever
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February 20, 2013, 09:00:07 PM
 #15

A decentralized GLBSE or MtGox, many times people discussed this hear. It has become some kind of Holy Grail for the developing crowd but no one yet had a conclusive idea how to solve the complex batch of problems that goes with it AFAIK.



Quote
Most issues are regulatory I guess -


if it is possible to register an official e-money issuer that is allowed to receive e.g. EUR and hand out Bitcoin-style (blockchain, scripts etc.) "Eurocoins", there is already a suggestion by Mike Hearn on how to shape transactions in Bitcoin and Eurocoin that could be used as decentralized exchange. The centralized element would then be only the Eurocoin issuer (in any exchange scenario you'd have someone you need to trust, because fiat transactions are not enforcable by you without a lawyer...) but NOT the Eurocoin holder whom you are exchanging to. E-money issuers are not allowed to do fractional reserve, so there's low risk on that front.

Usually the issue is on fiat side and how to enforce anything there - either by involving a 3rd party (e.g. MtGox), a WoT (BTC-OTC) or a combination of both (Ripple). To have a decentralized exchange you don't just need to "revolutionize money", you need some new/unique/special ways on how to deal with fiat money as well!






All is done as personally as possible, the third party will be the hub itself, which has no money inside. The exchange rates will always be changing, but an API from somewhere similar to xe.com would do good for everyone to keep up to date.

Quote
Most issues are regulatory I guess -



The ßitcoin hub will not actually be doing any transactions. Plus, the system will be localized to their own areas of the world. Doesnt that take care of a lot of regulations? (No transactions over borders.)

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February 20, 2013, 09:19:15 PM
 #16

How will you enforce a fiat transaction? Say I sell 1 BTC for 30 USD, suddenly the MtGox price crashes and BTC is at 10 USD/BTC - how do you ensure I still get the 30 USD somebody has committed to?

To me the small hints you gave seem like a "mobile"(?!) version of bitmarket.eu or similar, where you can put up offers that might be taken or not - but every time the BTC prices fall there are lots of problems with people not doing the fiat transaction. On the other hand, if you don't even hold BTC in escrow, as long as the rate goes up it makes sense for sellers not to send the BTC they promised but rather to re-sell them at higher prices.

Regulatory issues come into place once you start to create something that is 1:1 pegged to a fiat currency and can be redeemed in fiat again. This is the main difference to gift certificates (e.g. iTunes gift cards). Yes, of course sometimes it might be possible to get money back on a gift card too, but in general Apple does NOT guarantee you that you can just show up with 5000€ of iTunes gift cards and demand 10 500€ bills. With e-money on the other hand, you could do that.

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges. No fees(!).
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
mobile4ever
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February 20, 2013, 09:37:20 PM
 #17

How will you enforce a fiat transaction?



The deals are personal. I will not be personally (if the question was directed to me) enforcing anything. It is a personal transaction between the owner of the web site and the person interested in interchanging something, whether it be currency or goods and services. Since it is a local deal, the interstate commerce thing as well as the international laws are moot.


Say I sell 1 BTC for 30 USD, suddenly the MtGox price crashes and BTC is at 10 USD/BTC - how do you ensure I still get the 30 USD somebody has committed to?


Again its a personal deal, like in the offline world. It is not going to be connected to outside influences.


To me the small hints you gave seem like a "mobile"(?!) version of bitmarket.eu or similar, where you can put up offers that might be taken or not - but every time the BTC prices fall there are lots of problems with people not doing the fiat transaction. On the other hand, if you don't even hold BTC in escrow, as long as the rate goes up it makes sense for sellers not to send the BTC they promised but rather to re-sell them at higher prices.


If there is going to be a terms page on the hub site, it will say that people take responsibility for their own interchanges.


Regulatory issues come into place once you start to create something that is 1:1 pegged to a fiat currency and can be redeemed in fiat again. This is the main difference to gift certificates (e.g. iTunes gift cards). Yes, of course sometimes it might be possible to get money back on a gift card too, but in general Apple does NOT guarantee you that you can just show up with 5000€ of iTunes gift cards and demand 10 500€ bills. With e-money on the other hand, you could do that.


Nothing is pegged to anything, as all interactions are done "person to person". Its total freedom. It does not involve gift cards, just regular digital data running through the internet. HTML, PHP and perhaps Javascript which are all "open" technologies, are the powering influence.


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February 20, 2013, 09:40:34 PM
 #18

You have the right idea, sadly not at the right time (yet).

There won't be anything else than hostility you earn for the proposal.
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February 20, 2013, 09:43:23 PM
 #19

Forgive me if I'm off base here, but *total freedom* as you're describing it sounds like *pricing chaos* to me.

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February 20, 2013, 09:45:52 PM
 #20

You have the right idea, sadly not at the right time (yet).

There won't be anything else than hostility you earn for the proposal.


I dont feel so sad. Smiley At this time so many people are unemployed that there is no way they will avoid this system. Having an asset that puts money in your pocket whether a person works or not is too attractive to resist. Excuse me for saying so, but this seems to be the perfect time, thanks to the fall of the dollar and high unemployment.
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