Mycelium Crowdsale , Are you investing ?

[OmegaStarScream]

It's going to start soon : https://wallet.mycelium.com/early-bird-registration.html
Here is the basic terms : https://wallet.mycelium.com/elements/licenses.html or :

You get the share of Mycelium and the right to receive money whenever Mycelium gets more expensive. Let's suppose that this time, with this crowdsale, it will be valued at 100 million USD. Imagine that when we sell another portion one year later it will be valued at 1 billion USD. So you will get 900 million USD multiplied by your portion (if you are the owner of 5% you will get 5% of 900 million = 45 million). Your initial investment stays with you: you keep owning this right and it is non-dilutable. The next 20% we sell will be dilutable.



Your portion is how much you invest divided by how much all participants invest altogether (during this round). And multiplied by 5% (that is the total share being sold). You guys all together will get 5%. No matter what.



This round of the crowdsale is the first one in Mycelium's history. The round is open from May 1st to May 18th. You can register early until May 1st and get a 10% discount (you pay 1BTC, we calculate it as 1.1BTC).


You are free to resell, gift, pledge your rights the way you want. In about a month you will be able to control your share of Mycelium right in Mycelium Wallet.


‘Mycelium’ refers to the Mycelium Wallet project alone. We are not selling our other projects now. The legal form is called 'Stocks Appreciating Rights'. You can keep those SARs in the form of Mycelium Tokens or potentially convert them later into class B shares of Mycelium SIA (this will require de-anonymisation of the Mycelium Token owner).


To make the rights secure and convenient, we created them in the form of digital blockchain based tokens (colored coins issued using the Colu.co protocol over regular Bitcoin blockchain). Each token incorporates the information about the contract terms.


Token owners can either sell them on the open market at any moment or redeem to us if conditions are met. The latter can be done in a number of events such as an IPO and issuance of new shares; a capital increase; a sale, merger, or acquisition of the entire company. Or you can later convert SARs to class B shares and receive dividends or sell shares.


The offer refers to the Mycelium Wallet project only. There will be no refunds. Token is not a security, is not listed, authorized, issued or traded on any regulated market. We do not guarantee that the value of tokens will increase. 

It seems very interesting honestly , anyone of you planning to invest maybe ? personally I'm not sure how those things works so I'm not really sure If I should or not . It's open discussion so yeah .. Let's hear your thoughts;

[1714839204]

1714839204

[blacklizard]

I'm in and excited about their planned support for OpenAssets. Support for digital assets in wallets (over 3rd party websites) is imho long overdue.

[interbtc]

I don't understand this to be honest ; why are they selling shares of their project ? They know best will it turn profit, so it seams to me that they are
looking more for bailout of sorts, rather than that they are selling shares from any other reason.

Personally, i am not even remotely considering of investing my funds there, but i am interested in what others have to say tho.

[Jasad]

It's going to start soon : https://wallet.mycelium.com/early-bird-registration.html
Here is the basic terms : https://wallet.mycelium.com/elements/licenses.html or :

You get the share of Mycelium and the right to receive money whenever Mycelium gets more expensive. Let's suppose that this time, with this crowdsale, it will be valued at 100 million USD. Imagine that when we sell another portion one year later it will be valued at 1 billion USD. So you will get 900 million USD multiplied by your portion (if you are the owner of 5% you will get 5% of 900 million = 45 million). Your initial investment stays with you: you keep owning this right and it is non-dilutable. The next 20% we sell will be dilutable.



Your portion is how much you invest divided by how much all participants invest altogether (during this round). And multiplied by 5% (that is the total share being sold). You guys all together will get 5%. No matter what.



This round of the crowdsale is the first one in Mycelium's history. The round is open from May 1st to May 18th. You can register early until May 1st and get a 10% discount (you pay 1BTC, we calculate it as 1.1BTC).


You are free to resell, gift, pledge your rights the way you want. In about a month you will be able to control your share of Mycelium right in Mycelium Wallet.


‘Mycelium’ refers to the Mycelium Wallet project alone. We are not selling our other projects now. The legal form is called 'Stocks Appreciating Rights'. You can keep those SARs in the form of Mycelium Tokens or potentially convert them later into class B shares of Mycelium SIA (this will require de-anonymisation of the Mycelium Token owner).


To make the rights secure and convenient, we created them in the form of digital blockchain based tokens (colored coins issued using the Colu.co protocol over regular Bitcoin blockchain). Each token incorporates the information about the contract terms.


Token owners can either sell them on the open market at any moment or redeem to us if conditions are met. The latter can be done in a number of events such as an IPO and issuance of new shares; a capital increase; a sale, merger, or acquisition of the entire company. Or you can later convert SARs to class B shares and receive dividends or sell shares.


The offer refers to the Mycelium Wallet project only. There will be no refunds. Token is not a security, is not listed, authorized, issued or traded on any regulated market. We do not guarantee that the value of tokens will increase. 

It seems very interesting honestly , anyone of you planning to invest maybe ? personally I'm not sure how those things works so I'm not really sure If I should or not . It's open discussion so yeah .. Let's hear your thoughts;

No i dont interest to invest now,but i wonder what really they (mycelium) to open this project to everyone?is they really need funds and want to share profit?

[bitkilo]

Sounded good when i first read about the project but the more you read into it the worse it sounds.
I mean how will the take this company to a value of 900 million usd, what's their long-term plan to do this?
Also the 100mil value on Mycelium currently relates to the company as a whole but you can only invest in the wallet.

There is also some clause im still looking into regarding mycelium buying back the shares at the original ipo offer when they want to.

Token repurchase. In the event of SIA’s IPO Mycelium shall have a right to repurchase
Participant’s Tokens and corresponding SARs at Tokens’ Nominal Value equal to the Tokens’
purchase price during Sale Event in the USD based on BTC to USD BitcoinAverage exchange
rate at the time of the Sale Event closing. When SIA decides to start paying dividends,
Participant will have a right to sell Tokens to Mycelium for the Nominal Value or convert the
Tokens into class B non­voting preference shares of Mycelium SIA.

[Monnt]

I don't understand this to be honest ; why are they selling shares of their project ? They know best will it turn profit, so it seams to me that they are
looking more for bailout of sorts, rather than that they are selling shares from any other reason.

Personally, i am not even remotely considering of investing my funds there, but i am interested in what others have to say tho.

The whole idea of crowdfunding is that they don't really have the funds to do everything they want. They sell shares to fund their research and development. I'm investing 1 btc

[Bgjjj2016]

I don't understand this to be honest ; why are they selling shares of their project ? They know best will it turn profit, so it seams to me that they are
looking more for bailout of sorts, rather than that they are selling shares from any other reason.

Personally, i am not even remotely considering of investing my funds there, but i am interested in what others have to say tho.

The whole idea of crowdfunding is that they don't really have the funds to do everything they want. They sell shares to fund their research and development. I'm investing 1 btc

When you read their legal mambo jumbo , you'll see they can force you sell your share for the original price. I love mycelium and was very excited first until I read their legal disclosure.

[alani123]

To me, even the name is misleading. They call it a "crowdsale" but they have the right to repurchase shares at IPO sell price and don't give investors many other options to sell or trade the shares. This puts Mycelium in a no risk position while giving them very little incentive to go after profit after getting the funds, but even if they do meet sucess they could just kick investors out by getting the shares at the sell price. It's more of a crowdfunding initiative.

[Bitware]

Sounds like they are in financial trouble.

[gentlemand]

The terms are bizarre and shit so it's a no. If you can put in small amounts then i will more as a donation and expect nothing back.

[bitkilo]

Found this comment from Rassah on reddit:

Rassah

2d, 17h

In the future, how do you plan to determine the value increase of just the project separate from the rest of the company?

Value increases will be determined by the next sale of tokens, or during trigger events.

And do I have a guarantee that the collected funds will only be used for the wallet project and not for the rest of the company?

Not entirely, but that's mainly because eventually all of the rest of our company will be rolled into this wallet. Most of the expense will be used to pay Wallet developer salaries, but some of our resources (like office and general brand marketing) are shared, so it would be difficult to keep completely separate. Sorry I can't give a more satisfactory answer.

Link:  https://m.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4gkwov/mycelium_new_wallet_and_crowdsale/

So we can only invest in the wallet but they can't guarantee that the funds won't be used for other projects, really?

[alani123]

Found this comment from Rassah on reddit:

Rassah

2d, 17h

In the future, how do you plan to determine the value increase of just the project separate from the rest of the company?

Value increases will be determined by the next sale of tokens, or during trigger events.

And do I have a guarantee that the collected funds will only be used for the wallet project and not for the rest of the company?

Not entirely, but that's mainly because eventually all of the rest of our company will be rolled into this wallet. Most of the expense will be used to pay Wallet developer salaries, but some of our resources (like office and general brand marketing) are shared, so it would be difficult to keep completely separate. Sorry I can't give a more satisfactory answer.

Link:  https://m.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4gkwov/mycelium_new_wallet_and_crowdsale/

So we can only invest in the wallet but they can't guarantee that the funds won't be used for other projects, really?

Oh right, of course they urge investors to put money in their wallet project which so far was entirely free and didn't offer them any direct way to profit while they could be funneling funds to other projects profitable for them and with no obligation to investors...

[bitkilo]

Found this comment from Rassah on reddit:

Rassah

2d, 17h

In the future, how do you plan to determine the value increase of just the project separate from the rest of the company?

Value increases will be determined by the next sale of tokens, or during trigger events.

And do I have a guarantee that the collected funds will only be used for the wallet project and not for the rest of the company?

Not entirely, but that's mainly because eventually all of the rest of our company will be rolled into this wallet. Most of the expense will be used to pay Wallet developer salaries, but some of our resources (like office and general brand marketing) are shared, so it would be difficult to keep completely separate. Sorry I can't give a more satisfactory answer.

Link:  https://m.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4gkwov/mycelium_new_wallet_and_crowdsale/

So we can only invest in the wallet but they can't guarantee that the funds won't be used for other projects, really?

Oh right, of course they urge investors to put money in their wallet project which so far was entirely free and didn't offer them any direct way to profit while they could be funneling funds to other projects profitable for them and with no obligation to investors...

It would be good if Rassah could pitch in here and answer some questions regarding what the crowdsale funds will actually be used for because as of now it just looks like the investors will just be paying salaries.

[OmegaStarScream]

Sounds like they are in financial trouble.

I don't think so because they are planning to re work on the UI/UX and other stuff so I assume they need to pay more developers to work. : https://wallet.mycelium.com/concepts.html

[bitkilo]

Sounds like they are in financial trouble.

I don't think so because they are planning to re work on the UI/UX and other stuff so I assume they need to pay more developers to work. : https://wallet.mycelium.com/concepts.html

Paying developers wages looks to be exactly what they are planning to do with the funds. It's the only answer i have seen so far regarding what will happen with the money the receive from this.

[calkob]

i have thought about it, it is a very interesting project which could take off in the future.

[klondike_bar]

$100,000,000 valuation of a software wallet that probably took less than 100,000 man hours to develop? and projected 10x increase in value in a year?

NOOOOOPE

clearly venture capital firms have not been interested, and it makes sense since a realistic valuation is probably $2,000,000 or less. There are a half dozen qualified software wallets out there already who are not deluded into assuming billion-dollar valuations

[klondike_bar]

from the mycelium discussion page (which only shows the most recent 3-6 messages because of a terrible job formatting it):

"I did not say you are buying shares of the whole company. Just the wallet division
There is no minimum investment, yet. We may make one if there is s transaction spamming
We are not valued at $100,000,000, and will not accept that valuation. We do not expect 10x growth in a year."

which is almost total opposite of the basic terms page:

"Let's suppose that this time, with this crowdsale, it will be valued at 100 million USD. Imagine that when we sell another portion one year later it will be valued at 1 billion USD."

this is worse than paycoin

[Chris!]

I was excited about it but after looking into it I'm not going to be giving up my BTC. There are a few reasons:

• 1. They seem to be based in Latvia or Cyprus[1]
• 2. You will own a 'token' of the company. Not a share, not a stake[2]
• 3. They haven't set out a valuation for their company. If they raise 500BTC and you're contributing 1BTC you now 'own' 0.01% of their company. Who's to say the app was worth 10000BTC though?
  
  I have lots of questions for them:
  
  Why do you need the money? What will it be used for?
  What's the business model?
  What does your cash flow look like? What's your cost of acquisition per customer?
  Do you have debt? What's the debt service ratio?
  What assets do you own?
  What happens if you dissolve, go bankrupt, or decide to run with the funds (not saying they will, but how would you sue for $400US internationally? You wouldn't. It's too expensive).
  
  

I would want to do a lot more due diligence on the company but it's not readily available so I'm not risking my capital.

[1]Mycelium Holding LTD, Emmanouil Roidi, Kirzis Center, 2nd floor, Office D25, Agias Zonis, 3031, Limassol, Cyprus
Mycelium SIA, 34-1 Blaumana Street, Riga, LV-1011, Latvia

[2]IMPORTANT:

The crowdsale offer refers to the Wallet project only. No refunds. Token is not a security, is not listed, authorized, issued or traded on any regulated market. We do not guarantee that the value of tokens will increase.

EDIT: this isn't meant to bash Mycelium. I love their new ideas for the wallet and I use it all the time. I just won't be investing (or won't be investing very much).

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I know I won't invest in this, but I think it's an interesting project as well. I use their wallet and it has been nothing but reliable and convenient for me.  I'm just very skeptical about investing in anything related to bitcoin other than bitcoin itself.