Mycelium Crowdsale , Are you investing ?

[finkelsteinMonster]

I don't understand this to be honest ; why are they selling shares of their project ? They know best will it turn profit, so it seams to me that they are
looking more for bailout of sorts, rather than that they are selling shares from any other reason.

Personally, i am not even remotely considering of investing my funds there, but i am interested in what others have to say tho.

The company may repurchase the subscription amount the tokens on the Mycelium Wallet at any time. Any price gains can thus be erased at any time again if the company decides to buy back. This is very bold. For me, therefore, subject to the conclusion that I will continue to use the app, but will not invest in life a Satoshi in this ICO.

Repurchasing tokens only repurchases the contract that you bought, not the gains that the contract entitles you to. There is nothing in the agreement that erases your gains. If your contract is worth $100 and the gains are worth $1000, you can still get your gains, which are always separate from the contract itself, before selling the $100 contract.

And please stop calling it an 'investment'. You have made it clear that it is a donation.

No I haven't

Don't you think you should?

If this was a donation, you would get nothing in return. With this you are getting a share of the company. So no, I should make it clear that you are buying a share ownership of the company, and not making a donation.

So these are real  shares?
Any reason for calling them "tokens" rather than shares?
Is this registered stock (did you file with the SEC)?
Could you also clarify number of authorized shares/shares issued? And in what company?
What legal rights do these "tokens" entitle me to?

Edit: sry, never mind, just found some of the answers, right on your crowd sale page ( https://wallet.mycelium.com/elements/licenses.html )

"The crowdsale offer refers to the Wallet project only. No refunds. Token is not a security, is not listed, authorized, issued or traded on any regulated market. We do not guarantee that the value of tokens will increase. "

Care to answer the rest? ty.

[Rassah]

So these are real  shares?

These are real Stock Appreciation Rights. They work like real shares, except while real shares grow and shrink in value themselves along with company valuation, these SARs are just fixed price contracts by themselves, but which grant you right to any company growth on top of them. Essentially you get the same thing, but with the added benefit of being able to cash out your valuation increase any time, instead of waiting for the company to repurchase stock. E.g. if company value grows, you use the SAR token to prove ownership, and request that growth to be paid out directly as cash. The value of the toke itself remains fixed, +/- whatever speculation may be added to it while it trades on the market, such as expectations of another growth spurt.

Any reason for calling them "tokens" rather than shares?

They are SARs (Stock Appreciating Rights), not direct shares. Just a different bit of legal mumbo jumbo.

Is this registered stock (did you file with the SEC)?

This is not for an American based entity, so no.

Could you also clarify number of authorized shares/shares issued? And in what company?

The number issued will depend on the number sold time 20 (or divided by 5%), but the sold amount will not exceed 7,500 tokens. These are in the Mycelium Wallet division, which is wholly owned by our Mycelium corp registered in Latvia. It is separate from the rest of Mycelium.

What legal rights do these "tokens" entitle me to?

They give you a legal right to any growth in company valuation disbursed as cash directly to you, should you ask for it. Later on, should Mycelium Wallet start making a profit, they will get converted to some type of dividend paying asset. Whether that's an IPO for actual shares, or something else, will depend on a few things, like how much revenue this actually makes.

"The crowdsale offer refers to the Wallet project only. No refunds. Token is not a security, is not listed, authorized, issued or traded on any regulated market. We do not guarantee that the value of tokens will increase. "

Just to add, the no refunds is because this is a valuation sale. If everyone could refund at any time, the valuation could theoretically drop to zero at any time.

[finkelsteinMonster]

So these are real  shares?

These are real Stock Appreciation Rights. They work like real shares, except while real shares grow and shrink in value themselves along with company valuation, these SARs are just fixed price contracts by themselves, but which grant you right to any company growth on top of them. Essentially you get the same thing, but with the added benefit of being able to cash out your valuation increase any time, instead of waiting for the company to repurchase stock. E.g. if company value grows, you use the SAR token to prove ownership, and request that growth to be paid out directly as cash. The value of the toke itself remains fixed, +/- whatever speculation may be added to it while it trades on the market, such as expectations of another growth spurt.

These are not SARs, because "Stock appreciation rights (SARs) is a method for companies to give their management or employees a bonus if the company performs well financially." -wikip
What you are doing is peddling unregistered securities. Calling them "tokens" instead of "shares" is just childish.

Any reason for calling them "tokens" rather than shares?

They are SARs (Stock Appreciating Rights), not direct shares. Just a different bit of legal mumbo jumbo.

Lol @ "legal mumbo jumbo," you fast talkin' furball

Is this registered stock (did you file with the SEC)?

This is not for an American based entity, so no.

Where's this entity based? Is this entity registered where it be based at? Edit because no reading skills: Whats this "wallet entity" called? Company registration? (how do they do that in Latvia?)
Regardless, as long as you are targeting US nationals, you have to be registered with the SEC.

Could you also clarify number of authorized shares/shares issued? And in what company?

The number issued will depend on the number sold time 20 (or divided by 5%), but the sold amount will not exceed 7,500 tokens. These are in the Mycelium Wallet division, which is wholly owned by our Mycelium corp registered in Latvia. It is separate from the rest of Mycelium.

Where's this wholly owned subsidiary registered? Edit: Wait, the wallet is registered in Latvia, the rest of Mycelium elsewhere?

What legal rights do these "tokens" entitle me to?

They give you a legal right to any growth in company valuation disbursed as cash directly to you, should you ask for it. Later on, should Mycelium Wallet start making a profit, they will get converted to some type of dividend paying asset. Whether that's an IPO for actual shares, or something else, will depend on a few things, like how much revenue this actually makes.

But this is not a US entity? In which jurisdiction do I have these "legal rights"? Certainly not in US, which looks at this as nothing more than unregistered securities?

"The crowdsale offer refers to the Wallet project only. No refunds. Token is not a security, is not listed, authorized, issued or traded on any regulated market. We do not guarantee that the value of tokens will increase. "

Just to add, the no refunds is because this is a valuation sale. If everyone could refund at any time, the valuation could theoretically drop to zero at any time.

It's at least 3 years too late to be doing this. You are a US national, peddling unregistered securities. Serious shit if they want to come down on you. Make sure Mycelium has some srs lawyers on retainer, and make sure they're contractually obligated to represent you if things go to shit. And by "contractually," I mean IRL legally-binding contracts, enforceable here, in US, not in some make-believe Belize/p2p interweb court.
Good luck.
Lol, K, so Mama Mycelium is Mycelium Holding LTD, Emmanouil Roidi, Kirzis Center, 2nd floor, Office D25, Agias Zonis, 3031, Limassol, Cyprus, while Baby Mycelium is
Mycelium SIA, 34-1 Blaumana Street, Riga, LV-1011, Latvia.

Using that as a maildrop, or actually rent? The rates seem reasonable:
Price per desk:
day 10 EUR Euro
week 40 EUR Euro
month 90 EUR Euro
http://www.desksurfing.net/desks/1423-darbavieta

[Rassah]

These are not SARs, because "Stock appreciation rights (SARs) is a method for companies to give their management or employees a bonus if the company performs well financially." -wikip

Stock appreciation rights can be sold too. And we are offering them at a discount to our employees as well (not managers though, for conflict of interest reasons)

Where's this entity based? Is this entity registered where it be based at? Edit because no reading skills: Whats this "wallet entity" called? Company registration? (how do they do that in Latvia?)
Regardless, as long as you are targeting US nationals, you have to be registered with the SEC.

It's all right here https://wallet.mycelium.com/elements/documentation.html You can also request more documents by emailing us directly (things we don't publish publicly because it includes private information). We are not targeting US nationals. We are not a US company, and literally half of our users are Chinese. As I said, if this is illegal where you are, please do not break the law.

Where's this wholly owned subsidiary registered? Edit: Wait, the wallet is registered in Latvia, the rest of Mycelium elsewhere?

Mycelium is a company registered in Cyprus. Mycelium Wallet is a wholly owned subsidiary registered in Latvia, and owns the entire Wallet division. We are selling stake in the Wallet division, registered in Latvia. If you have some concerns about the project, you are actually buying a stake in myself and the people here https://wallet.mycelium.com/about.html By "myself" I mean that I am in charge of this project, and will be the one, along with my devs, to see it through. Neither I nor my devs are actually selling these tokens, nor do we get the money other than as salaries for the devs. You can talk to us directly about any issues though. If your concern is that there's too much trust and reputation, and not legal paperwork, please do not invest, as this is obviously not for you.

But this is not a US entity? In which jurisdiction do I have these "legal rights"? Certainly not in US, which looks at this as nothing more than unregistered securities?

I am not a lawyer. If you do not get legal rights in US, and buying these is illegal for you to do in US, please don't buy these. But I can't comment on whether it is or is not legal. Please consult your own lawyer.

[bitkilo]

Hi Rassah,
Why was the decision made to offer only the wallet side of Mycelium for the crowdsale?

Was it discussed to offer the company as a whole or may this happen in the future?

[Rassah]

Hi Rassah,
Why was the decision made to offer only the wallet side of Mycelium for the crowdsale?

Was it discussed to offer the company as a whole or may this happen in the future?

The owners decided to sell each product individually. That way products that are still just starting out and may not be viable are not included as part of the overall risk, and I suspect it also allows the developers more freedom to do whatever the hell they want to experiment with it and try to make it work, without risking anyone's money. The internal company structure is already very compartmentalized though. We in the wallet dev team don't really know anything about who works for Swish, Gear, or other products, or what they're up to.

[Rassah]

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/mycelium-bitcoin-wallet-crowdsale-closes-in-on-million-fundraise-integrates-glidera-1463584565

[Bit_Joe]

where's best place to follow this project?

Have plans to list tokens on some exchange?

When should we receive the tokens?

Thanks for your time.

[Rassah]

where's best place to follow this project?

Have plans to list tokens on some exchange?

When should we receive the tokens?

Thanks for your time.

We generally post updates on Reddit and our Twitter @MyceliumCom

We're talking to exchanges now.

Tokens will be issued Friday, and sent out Friday through Monday (we had a lot of buyers)

[finkelsteinMonster]

Tokens will be issued Friday, and sent out Friday through Monday (we had a lot of buyers)

Out of curiosity, which exchanges have you talked to?

[M28MmickT]

Tokens will be issued Friday, and sent out Friday through Monday (we had a lot of buyers)

Out of curiosity, which exchanges have you talked to?

To the ones on his imagination.

[glorywhole]

Tokens will be issued Friday, and sent out Friday through Monday (we had a lot of buyers)

"Sorry, there's been some internal miscommunication. Tokens will be issued Friday the 27th, not this past Friday. Need time to reconcile." https://twitter.com/MyceliumCom/status/734386623987785728

In Two Weeks ugaise

[adamvp]

I have a problem.
I bought some coin  but I did not get any till now.
Support not answering me.. What is wrong?  Help me please .. 

[BathSaltsDealer]

I have a problem.
I bought some coin  but I did not get any till now.
Support not answering me.. What is wrong?  Help me please ..  

Name:    Rassah
Posts:    7161
Activity:    1554
Position:    Legendary
Date Registered:    June 08, 2011, 07:12:12 PM
Last Active:    May 25, 2016, 03:25:59 AM

SFYL

[adamvp]

So should I be absolutely  calm?  My question was at first about problems on my side,  but I think some info should be announced anyway.  Does anyone have checked info?

[Wusolini]

I have a problem.
I bought some coin  but I did not get any till now.
Support not answering me.. What is wrong?  Help me please .. 

My token arrived today. Just hang on a bit more.

So should I be absolutely  calm?  My question was at first about problems on my side,  but I think some info should be announced anyway.  Does anyone have checked info?

Check their twitter or reddit for more news.

[M28MmickT]

When will there be exchanges to trade this token on ?

[adamvp]

Still no coins received
I guess something was wrong with my agreement? I signed it for sure but maybe Mycelium didn't get it?
I definitely would like to contact someone from Mycelium team..
I hope they help me because I was really hyped about Mycelium Crowsale!
Thanks!

#Edit:

Ufff Finally it comes some minutes ago!
I hope that(communication issues) will be most serious problem by Mycelium

[Rassah]

Still no coins received
I guess something was wrong with my agreement? I signed it for sure but maybe Mycelium didn't get it?
I definitely would like to contact someone from Mycelium team..
I hope they help me because I was really hyped about Mycelium Crowsale!
Thanks!

#Edit:

Ufff Finally it comes some minutes ago!
I hope that(communication issues) will be most serious problem by Mycelium

Sorry, we had over 1000 buyers, a lot of them didn't sign the agreements, and we've had to manually issue them until we organized all the problem buyers separate from the everything is signed and ready buyers. Had a whole lot of support emails in the mean time (over a hundred a day) and not many of us available to answer. I also don't keep an eye on bitcointalk.org much. Sorry it's taken so long. You can also always bug me directly through Telegram on https://telegram.me/MyceliumWallet I usually reply there much faster than through email.

[BathSaltsDealer]

Sorry, we had over 1000 buyers, a lot of them didn't sign the agreements, and we've had to manually issue them until we organized all the problem buyers separate from the everything is signed and ready buyers. Had a whole lot of support emails in the mean time (over a hundred a day) and not many of us available to answer. I also don't keep an eye on bitcointalk.org much. Sorry it's taken so long. You can also always bug me directly through Telegram on https://telegram.me/MyceliumWallet I usually reply there much faster than through email.

A hundred support emails a day, for 2 weeks? From "over 1000 buyers"? That means ... each of your buyers needed support more than once?!
How could you possibly fuck a simple task up this hard?