Newest Update From BFL on Chips

[PuertoLibre]

04:46 PM]   grnbrg :
From kanoi@freenode://cgminer - Firmware limitation for the MiniRig is 30 boards. Which may or may not fit in the MR chassis.

[1715661028]

1715661028

[1715661028]

1715661028

[SolarSilver]

Still... only 3 Avalons confirmed in the wild.

Actually since 20130220 there are at least 4 in the wild

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145885.0

[repentance]

04:46 PM]   grnbrg :
From kanoi@freenode://cgminer - Firmware limitation for the MiniRig is 30 boards. Which may or may not fit in the MR chassis.

Is this a real problem.  Josh has mentioned that that their specs are based on 40% of theoretical hashing capacity, so would it be possible for then to over-clock to reach the advertised 1.5 TH with less boards.  

Does anyone even know how many chips are going to be on their standard board  - I presume either 4 or 8?

[SLok]

04:46 PM]   grnbrg :
From kanoi@freenode://cgminer - Firmware limitation for the MiniRig is 30 boards. Which may or may not fit in the MR chassis.

Is this a real problem.  Josh has mentioned that that their specs are based on 40% of theoretical hashing capacity, so would it be possible for then to over-clock to reach the advertised 1.5 TH with less boards.  

Does anyone even know how many chips are going to be on their standard board  - I presume either 4 or 8?

4 for the Little Single, 8 for the Single, so 30 boards could do 25X60=1500GH/s, so no problem at all?

[repentance]

04:46 PM]   grnbrg :
From kanoi@freenode://cgminer - Firmware limitation for the MiniRig is 30 boards. Which may or may not fit in the MR chassis.

Is this a real problem.  Josh has mentioned that that their specs are based on 40% of theoretical hashing capacity, so would it be possible for then to over-clock to reach the advertised 1.5 TH with less boards.  

Does anyone even know how many chips are going to be on their standard board  - I presume either 4 or 8?

4 for the Little Single, 8 for the Single, so 30 boards could do 25X60=1500GH/s, so no problem at all?

So kano's really just saying that the maximum number of additional boards which could be added to the mini-rig is 5 (which would take it up to 1800 at advertised performance levels)?

[SLok]

04:46 PM]   grnbrg :
From kanoi@freenode://cgminer - Firmware limitation for the MiniRig is 30 boards. Which may or may not fit in the MR chassis.

Is this a real problem.  Josh has mentioned that that their specs are based on 40% of theoretical hashing capacity, so would it be possible for then to over-clock to reach the advertised 1.5 TH with less boards.  

Does anyone even know how many chips are going to be on their standard board  - I presume either 4 or 8?

4 for the Little Single, 8 for the Single, so 30 boards could do 25X60=1500GH/s, so no problem at all?

So kano's really just saying that the maximum number of additional boards which could be added to the mini-rig is 5 (which would take it up to 1800 at advertised performance levels)?

With the current firmware up to 30, might be more with new firmware? Not that the extra boards could fit in those cases as it seems, but BFL is considering selling separate boards to build a Mini Rig yourself because the price gap between the 60GH/s Single and 1500GH/s Mini Rig is quite large. Could be some boards in a second case can use the controller of someone's first Rig.
The advertised speed is 1500GH/s, not 1800GH/s http://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage/1500gh-bitcoin-miner.html

[PuertoLibre]

[07:50 PM]   btcftw : what's the latest news? are these things moving along?
[07:51 PM]   Hiver : The latest is the chips are in bumping and will be there until bumping says so.
[07:52 PM]   onryo : Hi guy. Any news?
[07:52 PM]   Hiver : Whoever told Josh two days should get a kick in the pants.

[Logik]

The thing that amazes me the most is the nature of his language. He seems to over-promise at every single opportunity. Take his Feb 21st update for example: "We should hopefully have more information on that later tonight or tomorrow". And yet (2 days later), there is no follow up post. Could he not simply say "We will update you as soon as we have more information?". There is no reason to volunteer a micro deadline like that.. It's a common pattern through every single one of his updates.

[Unacceptable]

Dear Unacceptable, don't quote the people who have orange Ignore button.

Uh...you have them ignored,not me.I listen to all points of view.....no matter how insane 

[DobZombie]

You made me lol

Also, I've never seen crack ANYWHERE in Australia

[hardcore-fs]

What Exactly is this "bumping" I keep hearing about.
seems some people say it is applied to the wafer... others the die and yet another group say to the package.
And then there is this "blank wafer" mask.

I just have never heard so many bullshit terms applied to Semiconductor flow before.

[desper]

The following pdf might help explain what bumping is (the pdf comes from Fujitsu, but I don't think Fujitsu is the company BFL is using for its ASIC). As far as I can see, bumping means that small blobs of solder (bumps) are applied to the chip to make contact between the chip and the packaging. It looks to be a very delicate process.

http://www.fujitsu.com/downloads/MICRO/fma/pdf/ASIC20PKG.pdf

[Frizz23]

Also, I've never seen crack ANYWHERE in Australia

You call that "P", no? Like the Kiwis do ...

[repentance]

Also, I've never seen crack ANYWHERE in Australia

You call that "P", no? Like the Kiwis do ...

Cocaine is insanely expensive here in Australia so there's not really a market for cocaine which has been cheaply free-based.  Those who can afford coke - which ranges from $300 - $600 per gram here - can afford to pay for coke which has been free-based properly.  Crystal methamphetamine is a lot cheaper.

[DobZombie]

Cocaine is insanely expensive here in Australia so there's not really a market for cocaine which has been cheaply free-based.  Those who can afford coke - which ranges from $300 - $600 per gram here - can afford to pay for coke which has been free-based properly.  Crystal methamphetamine is a lot cheaper.

Well, where I am it's about the same price.  It's lasts way longer tho

Like the Kiwis do ...

Kiwis eat chups.

I can't eat chups, can't chew bro.

[PuertoLibre]

Code:

[09:47 AM]   Hiver : or if he decided to do it at all.
[09:48 AM]   CohibaJr : I doubt he's sitting in the bumping facility.
[09:49 AM]   polrpaul : doubt it
[09:49 AM]   polrpaul : he would have announced a trip
[09:50 AM]   CohibaJr : He should be visiting the bumping facility, but who knows
[09:51 AM]   polrpaul : moreover, I don't believe BFL has any contact with the bumper at all
[09:51 AM]   CohibaJr : which is sad
[09:51 AM]   polrpaul : here's why: they contracted the project via the packager, who sub'ed it to their bumping house
[09:51 AM]   polrpaul : when BFL wanted to go North Carolina, it was for a good reason: direct contact with the bumper
[09:52 AM]   Hiver : Ah.
[09:52 AM]   polrpaul : but then they weren't able to meet deadlines, and the packaging house said: "we can do it"
[09:52 AM]   polrpaul : the hell they can
[09:52 AM]   CohibaJr : they aren't on top of their game, they need to be constantly in contact will all processors of the device.
[09:52 AM]   polrpaul : but if they have no contact at the bumper = shit out of luck
[09:52 AM]   polrpaul : nobody to call except their contact at the packager
[09:52 AM]   CohibaJr : yup
[09:53 AM]   polrpaul : packager says: "we're still waiting to hear from bumper"
[09:53 AM]   polrpaul : circle jerk
[09:53 AM]   CohibaJr : yeah, exactly
[09:53 AM]   CohibaJr : i don't think that BFL is at the top of their game
[09:53 AM]   polrpaul : lastly, without an update from Josh yesterday or today thus far... we are sitting losers
[09:53 AM]   Hiver : I subcontracted some work once. It was the worst decision I've ever made as a professional.
[09:54 AM]   polrpaul : well you have to remember that any work BFL doesn't do: is subcontracted - that's just about all of it
*   polrpaul  has reached 2250 shouts!* [09:54 AM]
[09:54 AM]   CohibaJr : exactly, subcontracting without being in contact with the sub is a losing situation.
[09:54 AM]   polrpaul : the issue comes when their contractor subcontracts their work
[09:54 AM]   shuadoom : Subcontracting is fine as long as you are in constant contact or at least have a line of communication
[09:54 AM]   polrpaul : +1 CohibaJr
[09:54 AM]   Hiver : So, if I'm getting this right, BFL are taking the packaging people at their word
[09:54 AM]   polrpaul : +1 shuadoom
[09:55 AM]   CohibaJr : sure seems like it, hiver
[09:55 AM]   shuadoom : Pol: That should have been part of the arrangement with anyone they deal with though, approval, oversight, and communication with everything regarding subcontracts.
[09:55 AM]   polrpaul : and yet... ?
[09:55 AM]   polrpaul : here we are holding our dicks, gentlemen
[09:55 AM]   CohibaJr : I don't think that Josh likes to oversight.
[09:55 AM]   shuadoom : specification, delivery wise...monetaryily is another thing...
[09:55 AM]   CohibaJr : That's the feeling I get.
[09:55 AM]   shuadoom : monetarily...
[09:55 AM]   Fjordbit : I was at least hoping to hear the test fascility got their chip
[09:56 AM]   Hiver : The person I farmed the work out too fell off the planet as soon as the good faith payment cleared. Made me look bad, made my customer angry... it was a nightmare. I ended up busting my balls to make the customer happy and took a loss on the job.
[09:56 AM]   polrpaul : YEAH
[09:56 AM]   shuadoom : Well, all the more reason to get a kicstarter together and some hardware guys and diy
[09:56 AM]   Fjordbit : Right now, that should be everyone's biggest concern.
[09:56 AM]   Hiver : Someone FOSSing an ASIC chip?
[09:56 AM]   polrpaul : shuadoom - with u !
[09:57 AM]   polrpaul : I thought the whole Avalon project was open source, no?
[09:57 AM]   CohibaJr : I don't think it's a bad thing, being aggressive in Business. Right now, BFL is at the mercy of everyone, because they aren't asserting their position.
[09:57 AM]   shuadoom : Business is business, no room for "well ill let the sub deal with the sub"...You need full control in order for your product and your standards to be met...
[09:57 AM]   polrpaul : I see they released the Software side of things into github
[09:58 AM]   polrpaul : my biggest beef: the transparency provided, or lack thereof
[09:58 AM]   shuadoom : Cohiba: Exactly.

[09:58 AM]   polrpaul : it's one thing to pre-order, be told a date, and then receive your item around that expected date
[09:59 AM]   polrpaul : it's a complete different story when they miss the dates, keep stringing you along, and then try to feed you transparency "chips are being bumped right now!"
[09:59 AM]   polrpaul : when the lack of transparency ends.. the scam is revealed
[10:01 AM]   polrpaul : i'd rather not get any transparency at all, just keep shifting the damn date in realistic terms (not by 1 week or even 1 month, but by 6 months)
[10:01 AM]   CohibaJr : BFL looks really weak right now due to missed dates, delays, and not asserting their position. If BFL is a student in a college course, it deserves a BIG F-.
[10:01 AM]   polrpaul : AND, offer your customers a real incentive to stay onboard
[10:01 AM]   polrpaul : the discounts were a joke
[10:01 AM]   polrpaul : I should be able to order more at a discount now
[10:01 AM]   polrpaul : I should be able to order more at a discount now
[10:02 AM]   polrpaul : and that's the other thing CohibaJr, I'm finding it hard to believe anyone at BFL has a college degree
[10:02 AM]   polrpaul : not even going to get into the cast of characters and their previous history
[10:03 AM]   polrpaul : anyone want to start a company? I don't feel at all intimidated by BFL's prowess from a competitive standpoint
[10:03 AM]   CohibaJr : polrpaul, hahaha, you're thinking kind of what i'm thinking, but i just didn't want to say anything.
[10:04 AM]   polrpaul : I mean: how can they order 6 wafers of chips, with 6 more wafers already started too, when there is not even 1 working prototype
[10:04 AM]   polrpaul : (serious TOO)
[10:04 AM]   polrpaul : I don't want to be shady or rape anyone of fair earnings
[10:05 AM]   polrpaul : I don't want to take millions in pre-orders, but ... sure that would be nice too
[10:05 AM]   SLok : yeah, you can run a mining pool and fly planes with just highschool, same for the guy doing asic design and writing firmware, not, polrpaul?
[10:05 AM]   Fjordbit : polrpaul, how would they have a working prototype without chips?
[10:05 AM]   polrpaul : a kickstarter type fund is the appropriate path
[10:05 AM]   polrpaul : correct SLok
[10:05 AM]   shuadoom : Pol: Fair earnings? Intillectual Property is BS...
[10:05 AM]   SLok : think again clown
[10:05 AM]   polrpaul : shuadoom, don't understand
[10:06 AM]   shuadoom : If you can figure out how something works, you should be able to make it and sell it..
[10:06 AM]   shuadoom : Intellactual property = monopoly
[10:06 AM]   polrpaul : SLok - who the clown?
[10:06 AM]   shuadoom : so there would be nothing unfair about making a competing product and releasing it
[10:07 AM]   SLok : who do you think
[10:07 AM]   polrpaul : shuadoom, my comment was - don't want to pull a bASIC scam or anything like that.. don't take money from people that you know you are raping
[10:07 AM]   shuadoom : ahhh word.
[10:07 AM]   polrpaul : SLok - proof
[10:07 AM]   shuadoom : I thought you meant like unfair to bfl...
[10:08 AM]   polrpaul : pictures or it didn't happen
[10:08 AM]   polrpaul : no, unfair to the people
[10:08 AM]   shuadoom : I say if you can bring a product to market and beat them, do it...
[10:08 AM]   polrpaul : so far.. it's all been unfair from the ASIC vendors.. except perhaps ASICMINER going live, but that's not a product
[10:08 AM]   polrpaul : if Avalon customers in China are indeed receiving and going live - congratulations to Avalon
[10:08 AM]   shuadoom : If I knew hardware better, I totally would, but I'm not an engineer..
[10:09 AM]   polrpaul : if not.. scammy
[10:09 AM]   polrpaul : don't need to be an engineer shuadoom - running a company requires different skillsets
[10:09 AM]   polrpaul : and if you ask me, a COO should be all about business
[10:09 AM]   polrpaul : Josh acts more like a CTO, IMHO
[10:10 AM]   CohibaJr : Avalon is so far the only company that has delivered something like they said they would, and even exceeded expectations(dates).
[10:10 AM]   CohibaJr : CTO?
[10:10 AM]   polrpaul : especially given his side hobbies of running EMC pool, now the ASIC Hosting program, running BFL Ad campaigns potentially for personal profit
[10:10 AM]   CohibaJr : Chief Technical Officer?
[10:10 AM]   shuadoom : Oh I know, but I don't know enough about hardware to know that folks are being truthful about it to put myself in such a position.
[10:10 AM]   shuadoom : technology
[10:11 AM]   polrpaul : you hire trusted elves to oversee the pieces you don't understand
[10:11 AM]   SLok : how comfortable, a customer in China received his asic, none besides 2 in the rest of the world, and they all can't work longer than 36 hours before they need a restart.
[10:11 AM]   shuadoom : Chief Turd Orifice
[10:11 AM]   shuadoom : Cheif too
[10:11 AM]   shuadoom : wait no..chief
[10:11 AM]   shuadoom : yeah..
[10:11 AM]   SLok : and an engeneering degree fr the operator
[10:11 AM]   CohibaJr : Yeah, Josh isn't a COO for sure. he's more of an engineer. COO will be VERY AGGRESSIVE, and fly out to the situs to examine all the processes, and constantly talk to the people every day.
[10:11 AM]   polrpaul : yeah, reality of avalon product existing en masse, and its quality both remain to be determiend
[10:12 AM]   shuadoom : No need to be a d1ck as a coo, but letting them know, if you don't do the job the way I want, you don't get the job is absolutely necessary
[10:13 AM]   polrpaul : absolutely
[10:13 AM]   CohibaJr : for sure, shua
[10:14 AM]   CohibaJr : Don't need to be a dick as a COO, but be aggressive/proactive and be very involved in the process and schedules and deadlines.
[10:14 AM]   shuadoom : Go watch an interview with steve jobs,.he had no problems telling someone that there work was shit....and he said, its never personal, its about the product/business
[10:14 AM]   polrpaul : as long as we're shooting the shit.. skills I bring to the table in the C-suite: Technology (CTO) and Security (CSO/CISO)
[10:14 AM]   polrpaul : I am not a sales/marketing/advertising person, and I am not an aggressive leader as a CEO and COO should be
[10:14 AM]   polrpaul : I know nothing of finance as a CFO should master
[10:14 AM]   CohibaJr : Sitting back at the headquarters as a COO doesn't look very professional, especially while there are MASSIVE DELAYS happening in the process.
[10:15 AM]   polrpaul : california is the place to be right now, not snowy kansas city
[10:15 AM]   shuadoom : *coughvaporwarecough*
[10:15 AM]   polrpaul : and then off to chicago (or send somebody else) to oversee the boards
[10:16 AM]   CohibaJr : Can't be sitting around at your desk, no one is going to hand you food into your mouth. You've got to go fight and get your food, so that you can survive. That's the attitude of a COO.
[10:16 AM]   SLok : ordered something shuadoom?
[10:16 AM]   shuadoom : I have a hunch that the delays are more of a "lets get this working right" and less of a our subs are shite
[10:16 AM]   shuadoom : No, I want to, I just don't have a positive feeling about it being a legitimate purchase..
[10:17 AM]   shuadoom : And I know that I will be last in line, but If I have to end up paying more for something sooner, then that is what I will do, because I want a product that is functional and in my hands
[10:18 AM]   shuadoom : I have no legitimate gripe at this point, just trying to work it out for my best interests.
[10:18 AM]   shuadoom : as should everyone, with every transaction
[10:19 AM]   SLok : i see, my best interest was order early to get one before the masses get theirs.
*   SLok  has reached 750 shouts!* [10:19 AM]
[10:20 AM]   polrpaul : my interest was: get one in realistic time frame
[10:20 AM]   polrpaul : 6 months late is.. bordering unrealistic IMHO
*   polrpaul  has reached 2300 shouts!* [10:20 AM]
[10:20 AM]   polrpaul : and with that.. I'm off to hunt breakfast
[10:20 AM]   shuadoom : Slok: I wish I had, though probably would be very angry at this point..
*   shuadoom  has reached 50 shouts!* [10:20 AM]
[10:21 AM]   CohibaJr : April is my deadline date. If BFL can't deliver by then $22K of my money will be refunded.
[10:21 AM]   SLok : i can wait for the new iphone, if i cared for one, no need to sleep for a store to get that first, but this is a different playing field
[10:22 AM]   polrpaul : I was saying March 1... over $5K ..time to chill out and try to reassess, maybe CohibaJr has some better sense
[10:22 AM]   SLok : way to late, agreed polrpaul, but this is cutting edge tech, so i'll hang on
[10:22 AM]   polrpaul : that critical edge is slipping
[10:22 AM]   SLok : what else to do?
[10:23 AM]   CohibaJr : I don't know what else to do or say except that a 22year old chinese kid(Avalon), beat out a giant(BFL) to the punch, even though it's not efficient.
[10:24 AM]   CohibaJr : Single-handedly.
[10:24 AM]   SLok : not the edge, people's expectations of profits, while an asic today gets the same redicted profit as back in september in $, chack the mining calculators
[10:24 AM]   shuadoom : Because to me, every purchase is a free exchange between individuals, value for value, and when the value is not met by one side or the other, there is cause for anger/grievance etc, because it is not value for value at that point;.
[10:24 AM]   SLok : that's a whole team avalon, not some kid. dr ngzang etc
[10:25 AM]   CohibaJr : I know it's a whole team Avalon, but the 22 year old kid represents the whole team.
[10:25 AM]   polrpaul : you can say Josh represents BFL in the same way, how old is he?
[10:27 AM]   KrLos : hallo, btc down to 26
[10:28 AM]   CohibaJr : early 30s?
[10:28 AM]   CohibaJr : mid 30s?
[10:29 AM]   KrLos : mt gox Last price:$28.10000

Problems with contractors doing sub-contracting?

Is that the reason for the delays?

Posted under the FAIR USE ACT for the purposes of discussion and education.

Edit: BTC price may now be in a devaluation trend. Bad news for all!

[kano]

04:46 PM]   grnbrg :
From kanoi@freenode://cgminer - Firmware limitation for the MiniRig is 30 boards. Which may or may not fit in the MR chassis.

Fucking hell.
Remember all that shit about quoting me in the Avalon thread that you never did quote me? (i.e. you were wrong you retard)
If you wanna quote me - at least fucking get it right .. well I guess you did the same before: never quoted me - made up shit - so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Code:

08:41 <@kanoi> oh yeah and the max is 30 cards
08:41 < grnbrg> I think so.  That one's been a bit iffy.
08:41 < grnbrg> ORLY?
08:41 < grnbrg> Can quote?
08:41 <@kanoi> yep
...
08:41 < grnbrg> Wooo!
...
08:42 <@kanoi> coz Nassar added a new command that retuned it in a 32 bit number - each bit - and I think the first and last can't be used - so only 30 bits
...
08:42 < grnbrg> Space for 30 cards, though?
08:42 <@kanoi> space - NFI :P
08:43 <@kanoi> but max is 30 by hardware limitations
08:43 <@kanoi> (well firmware :P)

i.e. the point is that is the firmware limit, so if someone tried to add more boards (which aren't in there) then they could only go to 30 (or is it 31? )
Anyway - the MR doesn't require 30 - and the PSU will be able to handle 1.5TH/s

Time is UTC+11 coz my irc is at home ... yeah still in the USA for another day and a bit

[PuertoLibre]

Retard I quoted Grnbrg not you. Go take it up with him.

As for your quotes they are probably from IRC which is not where this quote is from.

As for all the rest of your message, yes it is true as far as I read. You can keep trying to revise history but unless you find yourself with a room full of retards and a willing gullibility it won't work.

I don't need to quote any tiny segment, I provided the [link to your] entire history of your postings in various places for anyone to read in context. Whether people took that upon themselves or not is a separate question.

[kano]

Retard I quoted Grnbrg not you. Go take it up with him.

As for your quotes they are probably from IRC which is not where this quote is from.

As for all the rest of your message, yes it is true as far as I read. You can keep trying to revise history but unless you find yourself with a room full of retards and a willing gullibility it won't work.

I don't need to quote any tiny segment, I provided the [link to your] entire history of your postings in various places for anyone to read in context. Whether people took that upon themselves or not is a separate question.

Well as usual you don't quote directly then claim it as truth

[PuertoLibre]

You are fretting about something that is not worth while. Grnbrg said pretty much exactly what you told him in your IRC log from the looks of it.

I invite people to go look and compare it for themselves. You'll see the dig from the samurai wanna-be is nonesense.

So what your sword toting dig is bitching about is none of my business. Go message the grievances in my PM box. I cannot guarantee I'll read it though.

Well as usual you don't quote directly then claim it as truth

By the way genius, it's IRC, you are either there to witness it in the moment or you aren't.