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Author Topic: crypto-currency for left-libertarians...  (Read 2450 times)
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June 10, 2011, 06:51:08 PM

Except that socialism for the most part abolishes the price system, and whenever that's done, it doesn't seem to work out so great.

I don't see how you can have socialism without central planners, and if you have central planners, then you have government agents telling you what you can and can't do.

Thats not freedom.

Please familiarize yourself with the past 200 years of anarchist theory and stop derailing this thread. kthxbai.
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June 10, 2011, 08:56:37 PM

The problem with not allowing property or some sort of soft-property system is that then production becomes inefficient and you just cause poverty. This is why I think some level of inequality is inevitable, while not desirable in excess.

True, though one could, for example, think about production and consumption that occurs completely outside of a wage system for other motiviations. Just because we have built a system that rewards greed and selfishness does not mean a system can't be built that tends to discourage greed and selfishness. (Just as we have built a system that encourages externalities rather than discourages them)

Do you think that actually free markets (not the illusory free markets of today's state/corporate/capitalism) will naturally move towards more equality or do you think that other mechanisms need to be built around them hugolp?

Good question with complicated answer. In general yes, but I dont think its guaranteed. At the end, the market is just a concept, its the concept we use to describe all the volutary trades. And that this trades happen depends on a serie of social conventions (like any other system). At the end any system is as good as the respect for the social conventions that make it happen (as you being an anarchist know very well). If people feel explotaited and dont feel that its in their own benefit to respect the property rights system at the end it will fall. Its necessary that everybody participating in the system are very aware of this and help each other.
aka Raphy
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June 10, 2011, 09:07:59 PM

also I should say one of the weaknesses of bitcoin is that you have to already HAVE it to trade with it. This is as opposed to most mutual credit associations where you can incur a debit even without money that gives rise to future obligations. (that is also a weakness and opening for abuse I know)

Or you can just work to get bitcoin...

Chris Acheson
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June 11, 2011, 08:36:36 AM

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, I think it's best of left-libertarians (among which I count myself) and MFABU-type libertarian socialists to work on building systems that work on top of Bitcoin.  A while back I was working on a digital bearer certificate system, and one of my goals was to use it to create a labor-based currency.  Trouble is, currency needs to be fungible, and labor is not fungible.  You can try to standardize it somewhat, but it's always going to be unwieldy and involve a good deal of overhead.  By comparison, Bitcoin is simple and elegant.

As for what systems to build, one that comes to mind is friend-to-friend microlending networks, to address the "no one has any currency" issue.  There'd be some issues to work out with denominating this in BTC, especially at the moment, since no one's quite figured out how to make BTC loans work at all.  Maybe debts could be denominated in something else (gold?), and then settled in BTC.
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