The government wants your fingerprint to unlock your phone. Should it be allowed

[Wilikon]

[...]
The Glendale case and others like it are forcing courts to address a basic question: How far can the government go to obtain biometric markers such as fingerprints and hair?

The U.S. Supreme Court has held that police can search phones with a valid warrant and compel a person in custody to provide physical evidence such as fingerprints without a judge's permission.

But some legal experts say there should be a higher bar for biometric data because providing a fingerprint to open a digital device gives the state access to a vast trove of personal information and could be a form of self-incrimination.

"It isn't about fingerprints and the biometric readers," said Susan Brenner, a law professor at the University of Dayton who studies the nexus of digital technology and criminal law, but rather, "the contents of that phone, much of which will be about her, and a lot of that could be incriminating."


http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-iphones-fingerprints-20160430-story.html

[Balthazar]

It won't go too far since these fools can be tricked to destroy the data, because they don't know which finger exactly you are using to unlock your phone. For example, middle finger can be used for real unlocking while thumb will only simulate successful unlocking through revealing some false data set and destroying all the real data without giving any messages.

[Wilikon]

It won't go too far since these fools can be tricked to destroy the data, because they don't know which finger exactly you are using to unlock your phone. For example, middle finger can be used for real unlocking while thumb will only simulate successful unlocking through revealing some false data set and destroying all the real data without giving any messages.

You need to share with us that neat trick and on what OS this would work. Also if they know you've destroyed evidence that would be a criminal act in America, not sure about Russia.

[Balthazar]

You need to share with us that neat trick and on what OS this would work.

That can be a problem due to lack of public access to hardware specifications. But I won't be surprised to see such functionality in the custom firmware for android devices. I wouldn't expect that for samsung devices due to their copyright policy, but it's possible for less restrictive phones such as HTC production.

https://plus.google.com/+ParanoidAndroidCorner/posts

Also if they know you've destroyed evidence that would be a criminal act in America, not sure about Russia.

No one is obliged to testify against himself. You are not obliged to disclose any details about your hardware and software, it is their work to find out such functionality before going to try anything. They're paid from your taxes to do so. So, you haven't destroyed anything, it was all their fault. It's funny but you can issue a lawsuit against them, in order to compensate your moral and financial damage.

[xht]

Personally, i will never use this feature as are to many cracks in the system. It needs to by something you don't have control of, Like an atom which can't be duplicated.

[Balthazar]

Generally, verification of either fingerprint or iris is nothing but additional method of authentication. Samsung Galaxy, for example, doesn't allow you to log in through fingerprint verification in case if you have mistaken few times, or if you haven't used it for longer than 24 hours. Password will be requested in these situations.

So, access to copies of the biometric data is not enough, you also need either password or an exclusive access to internal details about hardware. Which is unavailable for US branches of Samsung, HTC, ... themselves, since they have no idea how these chips are working. Unfortunately for clowns in the government, these chips weren't made in the USA.

[Gronthaing]

No one is obliged to testify against himself. You are not obliged to disclose any details about your hardware and software, it is their work to find out such functionality before going to try anything.

Are you sure about that? Not exactly the same but for example in the uk you have to give passwords and encryption keys if they ask. For anything they think is encrypted even if it is not. Or face years in jail. Not sure the us has something like that if they claim national security or something. But there are some situations police or judges can force you to. In many other countries it is the same.

[Balthazar]

No one is obliged to testify against himself. You are not obliged to disclose any details about your hardware and software, it is their work to find out such functionality before going to try anything.

Are you sure about that? Not exactly the same but for example in the uk you have to give passwords and encryption keys if they ask. For anything they think is encrypted even if it is not. Or face years in jail.

Yep, I remember that UK is a land of contradictions... These guys are preaching a lot about freedom, while their own state is run by a totalitarian regime under the guise of faked parliamentarism, without any kind of legal protection of privacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

In fact, any civilized country has very similar legal framework, which protects its citizen from any attempts of forced self-incrimination. Fortunately, I'm not the UK citizen, here in Russia nobody is obliged to testify against himself, the same is correct for the US as well.

[Gronthaing]

No one is obliged to testify against himself. You are not obliged to disclose any details about your hardware and software, it is their work to find out such functionality before going to try anything.

Are you sure about that? Not exactly the same but for example in the uk you have to give passwords and encryption keys if they ask. For anything they think is encrypted even if it is not. Or face years in jail.

Yep, I remember that UK is a land of contradictions... These guys are preaching a lot about freedom, while their own state is run by totalitarian regime under guise of faked parliamentarism, without any kind of legal protection of privacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

In fact, any civilized country has very similar legal framework, which protects its citizen from any attempts of forced self-incrimination. Fortunately, I'm not the UK citizen, here in Russia nobody is obliged to testify against himself, the same is correct for the US as well.

Was looking a bit more into it. In most cases people are protected in the us too as you say. But not always: https://www.eff.org/issues/know-your-rights#39

"You do not have to hand over your encryption keys or passwords to law enforcement.

The Fifth Amendment protects you from being forced to give the government self-incriminating testimony. Courts have generally accepted that telling the government a password or encryption key is “testimony.” A police officer cannot force or threaten you into giving up your password or unlocking your electronic devices. However, a judge or a grand jury may be able to force you to decrypt your devices in some circumstances. Because this is a legally complicated issue, if you find yourself in a situation where the police, a judge or grand jury are demanding you turn over encryption keys or passwords, you should let EFF know right away and seek legal help."


And http://www.cnet.com/news/man-charged-for-refusing-to-give-up-phone-passcode-to-canadian-border-agents/

"The EFF's senior staff attorney Hanni Fakhoury pointed me to the fact that at the US borders "the standards for search and seizure are relaxed." Agents need neither a warrant nor individualized suspicion to search your devices. He did say, however, that the Ninth Court of Appeals had held that border agents must have a "reasonable suspicion" in order to insist on a "forensic examination." Fakhoury told me: "It's unclear what 'forensic examination' means."

Wonder how relaxed reasonable suspicion standards are too.

[Hirose UK]

maybe that will make your phone more secure, but it's risky. if someone saves very important data on his phone, maybe country's data, there will be robbers who want to steal that data. so the robbers may cut the owner's finger to get his fingerprint, just like in the movies 

[Wilikon]

maybe that will make your phone more secure, but it's risky. if someone saves very important data on his phone, maybe country's data, there will be robbers who want to steal that data. so the robbers may cut the owner's finger to get his fingerprint, just like in the movies 

A dead finger won't work with Apple ID.

[Balthazar]

https://www.rt.com/uk/342199-gchq-change-password-often/

Don't change your passwords too often, UK intelligence says

[bryant.coleman]

https://www.rt.com/uk/342199-gchq-change-password-often/

Don't change your passwords too often, UK intelligence says

Yeah... makes it a lot more easier for the British intelligence moonbats to hack in to your iphone and steal your private data and pictures. Had they shown the same kind of enthusiasm in tracking the potential terrorists, then incidents such as the 7th July 2005 London bombings, and the murder of Lee Rigby could have been prevented.

[mindrust]

No big deal.

I am not saying governments are innocent as a baby but unless you are doing illegal shits, you don't need to worry about them having your fingerprints.

[onlinedragon]

Well in that case they will all come with an eye scanner so that make it pointless. How far will they go to collect all about people will this ever stop. It will be really patetic before the Internet they also didn't know what people did in there private life.

[bryant.coleman]

No big deal.

I am not saying governments are innocent as a baby but unless you are doing illegal shits, you don't need to worry about them having your fingerprints.

It might not be a big deal for you. But for us, who are worried about privacy and confidentiality, it is definitely a big deal. And you need to define "illegal shit". The definition of that phrase can vary from country to country. For example, in Germany commenting in Facebook against the illegal immigration qualifies as "illegal shit".

[mindrust]

No big deal.

I am not saying governments are innocent as a baby but unless you are doing illegal shits, you don't need to worry about them having your fingerprints.

It might not be a big deal for you. But for us, who are worried about privacy and confidentiality, it is definitely a big deal. And you need to define "illegal shit". The definition of that phrase can vary from country to country. For example, in Germany commenting in Facebook against the illegal immigration qualifies as "illegal shit".

Then why would anyone want to comment against the illegal immigration in Germany? If someone wants to comment against illegal immigration in Germany, then that someone definitely wants to do illegal shit. Not that hard come'on.

[bryant.coleman]

No big deal.

I am not saying governments are innocent as a baby but unless you are doing illegal shits, you don't need to worry about them having your fingerprints.

It might not be a big deal for you. But for us, who are worried about privacy and confidentiality, it is definitely a big deal. And you need to define "illegal shit". The definition of that phrase can vary from country to country. For example, in Germany commenting in Facebook against the illegal immigration qualifies as "illegal shit".

Then why would anyone want to comment against the illegal immigration in Germany? If someone wants to comment against illegal immigration in Germany, then that someone definitely wants to do illegal shit. Not that hard come'on.

I don't understand what you are saying. Are you high on weed?

Do you believe that commenting on something, which is in the news recently is a crime? Let me guess. You are from Turkey, and you are a staunch follower of Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. Western nations are different (at least used to be different) from third world dictatorships such as Turkey. Freedom of speech used to be practiced here.

[criptix]

No big deal.

I am not saying governments are innocent as a baby but unless you are doing illegal shits, you don't need to worry about them having your fingerprints.

It might not be a big deal for you. But for us, who are worried about privacy and confidentiality, it is definitely a big deal. And you need to define "illegal shit". The definition of that phrase can vary from country to country. For example, in Germany commenting in Facebook against the illegal immigration qualifies as "illegal shit".

I just reported you to the german goverment. Prepare for a swat team raiding your house in india and 15 years of jail in germany - minimum.

[Barbut]

No big deal.

I am not saying governments are innocent as a baby but unless you are doing illegal shits, you don't need to worry about them having your fingerprints.

It might not be a big deal for you. But for us, who are worried about privacy and confidentiality, it is definitely a big deal. And you need to define "illegal shit". The definition of that phrase can vary from country to country. For example, in Germany commenting in Facebook against the illegal immigration qualifies as "illegal shit".

Then why would anyone want to comment against the illegal immigration in Germany? If someone wants to comment against illegal immigration in Germany, then that someone definitely wants to do illegal shit. Not that hard come'on.

I don't understand what you are saying. Are you high on weed?

Do you believe that commenting on something, which is in the news recently is a crime? Let me guess. You are from Turkey, and you are a staunch follower of Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. Western nations are different (at least used to be different) from third world dictatorships such as Turkey. Freedom of speech used to be practiced here.

I wish to be high but someone decided its illegal in my country... Oh crap now I need to break some laws. Am I a criminal? Oh now I wish to share my opinion, but it seems it's also illegal.
With this comment I'm earning some bitcoins.... Oh my God, its also illegal.

Lady's and gentleman's meet one hard core criminal mind.
If you don't stop me I will destroy this world!