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🏰 TradeFortress 🏰
Bitcoin Veteran
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Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
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February 23, 2013, 07:53:05 AM |
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Because it has about two assets with any value in them. |
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Monster Tent
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February 23, 2013, 11:16:52 AM |
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Because it has about two assets with any value in them. How is that different to MPEX ? |
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MPOE-PR
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February 23, 2013, 01:45:24 PM |
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Because it has about two assets with any value in them. How is that different to MPEX ? Dude, seriously already. MPEx mkt cap is something like 1.x mn Bitcoins. This is more than everything else by orders of magnitude. It's more than most countries' actual fiat stock exchange. MOST COUNTRIES. Lay the crap to rest already, it's not doing you any favors. |
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Peter Lambert
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February 25, 2013, 08:44:53 PM |
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Because it has about two assets with any value in them. How is that different to MPEX ? Different because MPEx does not also have a bunch of worthless cruft cluttering it. Different because MPEx has other stuff besides stocks (like options). |
Use CoinBR to trade bitcoin stocks: CoinBR.comThe best place for betting with bitcoin: BitBet.us |
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Walter Rothbard
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February 25, 2013, 09:05:25 PM |
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Because it has about two assets with any value in them. How is that different to MPEX ? Different because MPEx does not also have a bunch of worthless cruft cluttering it. Different because MPEx has other stuff besides stocks (like options). Cryptostocks also has options. |
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xavier (OP)
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February 26, 2013, 01:19:36 AM |
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This is why exchanges with public asset lists are important (for example, BitFunder). Even if BitFunder suddenly shuts down, asset issuers will be able to know who owned what.
Ah yes, thank you for this link. But I guess you also have to rely on the asset issuers themselves honouring the contracts made on any individual stock exchanges - ultimately they could just neglect to pay a dividend for 1 month. How would you enforce that? And without any formal contracts or if a stock exchange went down, how would you trade out of the stock at a future date? |
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Monster Tent
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February 26, 2013, 01:59:19 AM |
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This is why exchanges with public asset lists are important (for example, BitFunder). Even if BitFunder suddenly shuts down, asset issuers will be able to know who owned what.
Ah yes, thank you for this link. But I guess you also have to rely on the asset issuers themselves honouring the contracts made on any individual stock exchanges - ultimately they could just neglect to pay a dividend for 1 month. How would you enforce that? And without any formal contracts or if a stock exchange went down, how would you trade out of the stock at a future date? They shouldnt be called stock exchanges at all but renamed to Gambling. Because thats essentially what happens. |
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Deprived
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February 26, 2013, 02:01:21 AM |
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This is why exchanges with public asset lists are important (for example, BitFunder). Even if BitFunder suddenly shuts down, asset issuers will be able to know who owned what.
Ah yes, thank you for this link. But I guess you also have to rely on the asset issuers themselves honouring the contracts made on any individual stock exchanges - ultimately they could just neglect to pay a dividend for 1 month. How would you enforce that? And without any formal contracts or if a stock exchange went down, how would you trade out of the stock at a future date? Asset issuers can default at any time without needing the exchange to go down. In GLBSE's case the lack of any provision of investors' details provided a convenient window for issuers to vanish/claim ignorance (or do a Gigavps and charge a hefty fee for recognition of your claim - pricing smaller non-US investors out of their holdings). That excuse has gone with BTC.CO and (to an extent) Bitfunder (the asset list there is incomplete - as it only includes investors who opted in by providing a BTC address or ticking a box to allow sharing of their email address) but the capability for issuers to vanish is ALWAYS present and, without enforcement of contracts, can't be seriously mitigated. All the time there are issuers there will be issuers who default. The rate of default/failure has to be factored in when deciding what rate of return is acceptable for investments (over-simplifying, if 10% of assets default/fail per 3 months then you have to make 11% profit per 3 months on the 90% just to break even - so anything paying less than ~ 4% per month should be ignored unless you have good reason to believe it's in the 90% not the 10%. Those numbers are illustrative not intended to be taken as fact - actual default/failure rate may be lower or higher: my money's on higher, dependent on how you define default/failure.) |
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MPOE-PR
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February 26, 2013, 08:14:14 AM |
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Asset issuers can default at any time without needing the exchange to go down. In GLBSE's case the lack of any provision of investors' details provided a convenient window for issuers to vanish/claim ignorance (or do a Gigavps and charge a hefty fee for recognition of your claim - pricing smaller non-US investors out of their holdings). That excuse has gone with BTC.CO and (to an extent) Bitfunder (the asset list there is incomplete - as it only includes investors who opted in by providing a BTC address or ticking a box to allow sharing of their email address) but the capability for issuers to vanish is ALWAYS present and, without enforcement of contracts, can't be seriously mitigated.
All the time there are issuers there will be issuers who default. The rate of default/failure has to be factored in when deciding what rate of return is acceptable for investments (over-simplifying, if 10% of assets default/fail per 3 months then you have to make 11% profit per 3 months on the 90% just to break even - so anything paying less than ~ 4% per month should be ignored unless you have good reason to believe it's in the 90% not the 10%. Those numbers are illustrative not intended to be taken as fact - actual default/failure rate may be lower or higher: my money's on higher, dependent on how you define default/failure.)
This of course runs into the problem of the interest vicious circle (as expected returns go up to compensate for rate of failure actual businesses are selected against, actual scams are selected for). Because it has about two assets with any value in them. How is that different to MPEX ? Different because MPEx does not also have a bunch of worthless cruft cluttering it. Different because MPEx has other stuff besides stocks (like options). Cryptostocks also has options. "To have" does not mean "there is the word written on a web page". |
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BitcoinINV
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February 26, 2013, 04:55:42 PM |
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That is pretty darn cool. |
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MPOE-PR
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February 26, 2013, 11:58:16 PM |
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That is pretty darn cool. Only because you're not on MPEx. Among actual traders it has been going on for over a year by now. Sucks to be irrelevant, I guess. |
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BitcoinINV
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February 27, 2013, 12:10:14 AM |
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That is pretty darn cool. Only because you're not on MPEx. Among actual traders it has been going on for over a year by now. Sucks to be irrelevant, I guess. Says the secretary |
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MPOE-PR
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February 28, 2013, 05:07:20 PM |
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Says the secretary
No, actually, I'm the forum PR person. |
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burnside
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1006
Lead Blockchain Developer
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March 01, 2013, 05:46:44 AM |
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MPOE-PR
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March 30, 2014, 03:21:32 PM |
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This is why exchanges with public asset lists are important (for example, BitFunder). Even if BitFunder suddenly shuts down, asset issuers will be able to know who owned what.
That worked well. |
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Peter Lambert
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March 30, 2014, 10:32:47 PM |
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This is why exchanges with public asset lists are important (for example, BitFunder). Even if BitFunder suddenly shuts down, asset issuers will be able to know who owned what.
That worked well. Just imagine how much worse it would have been without the asset lists! |
Use CoinBR to trade bitcoin stocks: CoinBR.comThe best place for betting with bitcoin: BitBet.us |
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Branny
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March 31, 2014, 02:29:59 AM |
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Bitfunder sent asset lists of all shareholders to the issuers when they said they would. If there's a share mitigation issue it's on the issuer's end and not on Bitfunder.
That doesn't excuse ukyo of anything, however as far as the asset lists went they were semi-useful.
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