Account Farmers are the new Ponzis

[MRKLYE]

Alright folks. First off I'd like to thank the community for starting to red tag the endless bullshit ponzi's that seemingly pop up daily. Good work!
It's amazing what a community can accomplish when we come together against a common enemy. It's time to look onto our next target...


I've created this post as a call to the community to begin applying negative trust to those who support buying/selling/farming of accounts.


Account farmers DIRECTLY contribute to the amount of spam, needless shitposting and ease of scamming here on the forums.
It's absolutely anti-social behavior and these people need to not be rewarded for making these forums look and read like SHIT.
Over 60% of the forums posting (from my experience) exists for the sole purpose of account or signature ad farming.
These people aren't here to converse about bitcoin nor do business, They are here to clog up the forums for profit.


In the forum rules it says account farming is frowned upon, I think we should start making this more apparent and start taking action against it.
Accounts should not be taken as collateral for loans, Period. Anyone taking accounts as collateral is directly contributing to destroying these forums.
I ask those on default trust to join me in combating what I can only call the blight which rots this forum, and start red tagging those selling accounts and those whom take accounts as collateral, or anyone else directly involved in the trading of accounts


Also, I would like to bring to the attention of the forums a known account farmer "knowhow" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=381554
This user "jokingly" bragged to have farmed nearly 1000 accounts, But he also edited the posts after I neg repped him. Shady as FUCK.
I'd like to bring to attention a PM he sent me after I stated I would not remove the negative trust I gave him after he admitted to account farming:

I dindnt edited anything you are insane the scammer here is you not me anyway it dont bother me at all your opinion and feedback worths nothing just is there because you have nothing to do my accounts are permanent banned ,anyway do whatever you wanna your account value is 0 mine is 0,17btc have a nice day.

If you look into this users posts it becomes clear he's the type of user that gives these forums and BTC it's bad name. I ask you look for yourself and give trust accordingly.


I ask the members of the forum to band together to help me fight the degradation and exploitation of the forums, You can help clean up the forums.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I'm totally with you but my word means nothing.  Get dt members to do this or better yet, get account selling banned on this forum.

[MRKLYE]

I'm totally with you but my word means nothing.  Get dt members to do this or better yet, get account selling banned on this forum.

That is my hope with this post. The way the forum users have banded together against ponzi's can hopefully be applied to account traders.

I've been on these forums a few years now.. And the problem is getting worse in regards to people diluting the forums content with shitposting.

[botany]

Would more stringent bans for spamming be the solution.
I only see account sellers using throwaway accounts and escrows if they start getting negative repped for dealing in accounts.

[DarkStar_]

I don't think tagging account sellers would really help, since once someone has an account farmed up the way he wants, he will just create a new account just to sell that account, and tagging him would just be a waste of time. The only people that this will really effect are the lenders (Possibly biased opinion, since I'm a lender) since many lenders probably hold accounts right now as collateral, and if people default, the accounts they hold would become worthless since there would be very few buyers (as they have to create a new account, and buying an account from a defaulted loan wouldn't be very hard to find), possibly leading to a large loss for the lender.

[notlist3d]

I don't think tagging account sellers would really help, since once someone has an account farmed up the way he wants, he will just create a new account just to sell that account, and tagging him would just be a waste of time. The only people that this will really effect are the lenders (Possibly biased opinion, since I'm a lender) since many lenders probably hold accounts right now as collateral, and if people default, the accounts they hold would become worthless since there would be very few buyers (as they have to create a new account, and buying an account from a defaulted loan wouldn't be very hard to find), possibly leading to a large loss for the lender.

I'm no fan of account selling, but it is allowed on the forum.  So going to be hard to defeat I think.   Tagging accounts only helps if it stops them from getting into signature campaigns.   That is the goal of most they are told of easy money.. it's that greed you need to defeat.

If there is no financial gain from buying farmed accounts, then it will slow it down.  It won't stop it with it being allowed but will slow it  I think.  But I think you are fighting a uphill battle sadly.  But getting all sig campaigns to stop accepting bought accounts is going to be impossible, as some "lower tier" campaigns for lack of better term i don't think care.  

[Lauda]

I should remind everyone (before they post) that doing something that has some effect is way better than doing nothing. This problem is getting increasingly worse and finding just 'decent' (less than than 'good') quality content is becoming increasingly hard. Tagging account sellers and sold accounts would have an effect on what they can do afterwards, because they would most likely be rejected by signature campaigns.

Would more stringent bans for spamming be the solution.

I wouldn't mind, but it isn't up to me. As a starting ban for a signature spammer 2 months or more seems fit.

get account selling banned on this forum.

This would not prevent account sales, as one could easily do it in private or on a external site. I don't see it being a bannable offense anytime soon (even though I would not mind it).

[krunox123]

I'm no fan of account selling, but it is allowed on the forum.

But it is discouraged for doing so, though.

[Jet Cash]

Just be careful how you handle this. We might end up having to talk about Bitcoin and its uses and technical aspects.

[Monnt]

Watch your sodium intake, Kyle.

I do understand the concern you have with account farming, and how the community is pretty lopsided.
But this community is based on bitcoin, and so should this forum. Admins shouldn't exist. Only p2p.

Small things like signature campaigns kicking out spammers/reducing slot amounts are already helping.

TL;DR: Account farmers are cancerous, but the community should be able to work this out and come to a consensus.

[Blazed]

The solution is simple, but no one will do it: ban signature campaigns. Until campaigns are banned they will keep spamming for payments. I think most these guys live in third world areas and the pay they earn is significant for them. Most of the really bad ones tend to type with broken English.
 

[Lutpin]

The solution is simple, but no one will do it: ban signature campaigns.

Whilst I agree that this would be a (rather harsh) solution (and yes, as a campaign manager, my opinion on this is obviously biased), not all campaigns are connected to this/part of the problem.
Some campaigns seem to go with the byname 'xyz spammer' relatively often, while others don't get pulled into the discussion at all.

I don't think signature campaigns are the (sole) problem itself, but one could argue some signature campaigns (or the ways signature campaigns are mainly handled right now) are.

[Lauda]

Whilst I agree that this would be a (rather harsh) solution (and yes, as a campaign manager, my opinion on this is obviously biased), not all campaigns are connected to this/part of the problem.
Some campaigns seem to go with the byname 'xyz spammer' relatively often, while others don't get pulled into the discussion at all.

Correct. There was a point in time where I suggested that we punish both signature campaign managers who don't do their 'job' (along with the service and the members), but that was also unsuccessful.

Most of the really bad ones tend to type with broken English.

Sometimes it seems like they've used Google Translate.

[KenR]

Sometimes it seems like they've used Google Translate.

One way to solve the signature campaign issue is by making a set of rules which should be mandatory for every new campaign.The managers are allowed to add more rules to the list but can't take out any mandatory rules.I know folks here are obsessed with decentralization and peer to peer stuff but implying a few rules based on everybody's concern won't make a big difference.

I found out this campaign manager Gianluca95is managing 3-4 campaigns while himself having broken English and terrible post quality.

[Lauda]

One way to solve the signature campaign issue is by making a set of rules which should be mandatory for every new campaign.The managers are allowed to add more rules to the list but can't take out any mandatory rules.

I concur. Now there are two things that need to be done:
1) Decide on the set of rules.
2) Convince the forum administration.

I know folks here are obsessed with decentralization and peer to peer stuff but implying a few rules based on everybody's concern won't make a big difference.

This is a privately owned (centralized) forum. Just because it is a forum about a decentralized cryptocurrency, that does not mean that we should force decentralization on the forum moderation. Their obsession is unjustified.

[Slow death]

The solution is simple, but no one will do it: ban signature campaigns. Until campaigns are banned they will keep spamming for payments. I think most these guys live in third world areas and the pay they earn is significant for them. Most of the really bad ones tend to type with broken English.
 

I think shocking blame people of the third world

maybe people do not know they are doing spam.

The solution is simple, but no one will do it: ban signature campaigns.

ban signature campaigns will cause many people leave the forum

[Slowturtleinc]

Awesome,so are we going to keep branching out and applying negative trust to stuff?
How exciting...

- People that use poor Inglish
- People that disagree with me
- People that do not post often enough
- People that do not make me happy with their posts
- People that post to much
- People that think they are cops
- People that you think may smell behind their keyboard
- People with serious OCD
- People who do drugs
- People that sound like they are in a Militia bunker
- People the support Altcoins
- People that do not work
- People that talk about having a life outside bitcoin
- People that have signatures
- People that trust build
- People with agendas
- People that wear pink on Tuesdays
- People that have more than one account
- People that can not sign a message proving they have bitcoin

Oh boy Oh boy...Lets string up and go to town!!

====================================================================

This wanting to police the forum is becoming a serious problem and it was kind of funny at first and now truly sad the lengths some of you are willing to go with this crusade. Already noticing some people that I used to enjoy reading that had thoughtful things to say and not trolling have gone quiet. If you want to live in a perfect cookie cutter forum go create one and have the people with glass houses
follow you in. Stop trying to make some kind of righteous utopia and let people be ffs!

[Lauda]

Awesome,so are we going to keep branching out and applying negative trust to stuff?
How exciting...
-snip-

Most of the stuff posted is not a valid reason to provide negative trust, ergo you are appealing to emotion and being hyperbolic.

This wanting to police the forum is becoming a serious problem and it was kind of funny at first and now truly sad the lengths some of you are willing to go with this crusade.

There is no evidence that supports your statement. If there is, then post it here (else it isn't a "serious problem").

Already noticing some people that I used to enjoy reading that had thoughtful things to say and not trolling have gone quiet.

Post their usernames and let us be the judge of that. The problematic lies in account farming and signature spam. It is becoming hard to find content that is worth reading and replying to.

[Slowturtleinc]

@ Lauda

Surely you have read enough of this forum being as active as you are to know if I am making off the cuff remarks or if there is weight behind what I am saying. The fact you ask for evidence leads me to believe anything stated will be brushed aside anyways,so why waste my time digging up threads and opening up old issues.
Having a different opinion does not automatically make some one emotional but I find you take things quite literal and honestly find it off putting but have been told this is just your way. Seems to be a few people that see things black and white and I do butt heads with them as well,nothing personal.

Why would I create a list of members that I enjoy reading when I rather not draw unwanted attention and future problems.
This evidence or shut up is really quite offensive but I have stated what I wanted to say and will let the thread continue down its path.
Since I hold little power I just state my issue and move on,learned my lesson with the last trust club earlier in the year and will just join others in watching from the sidelines when these type of issues pop up and the forum plays wack a mole.

[Lauda]

Surely you have read enough of this forum being as active as you are to know if I am making off the cuff remarks or if there is weight behind what I am saying.

I'm aware that some people are leaving (or switch to being 'passive'), albeit I disagree that they're leaving because of some "trust police" or whatever exactly you were referring to.

The fact you ask for evidence leads me to believe anything stated will be brushed aside anyways,so why waste my time digging up threads and opening up old issues.

That's definitely a no from me.

Having a different opinion does not automatically make some one emotional but I find you take things quite literal and honestly find it off putting but have been told this is just your way.

There's nothing wrong in pointing out a fallacy in someones post (if there is one; "appeal to emotion"). You did overreact on that list of reasons.

Why would I create a list of members that I enjoy reading when I rather not draw unwanted attention and future problems.

Then I can't verify your claims either.

This evidence or shut up is really quite offensive but I have stated what I wanted to say and will let the thread continue down its path.

I don't see anyone telling you to shut up either.

Since I hold little power I just state my issue and move on,learned my lesson with the last trust club earlier in the year and will just join others in watching from the sidelines when these type of issues pop up and the forum plays wack a mole.

Interesting. If you are willing to share the story, PM me.
Now back to the thread. There is little reason to not punish people who are engaging in these activities. It is quite rare to see someone to sell their account for a valid reason; I mean why would they? I wouldn't sell mine after departing either.