IF the NSA wanted to take control over Bitcoin, how would they do it?

[Enotche]

I think that this is impossible. After all, then we need to monitor the entire Internet on the planet! As well as purchase all Bitcoins. Or create an attack 51% and it needs a lot of money.
It is worth considering that different countries have different attitudes to Bitcoin, and I think they will have to take into account the views of all these countries so as not to incur the political scandal.
P.S
There the crazy theory that Bitcoin has created NSA.
 Satoshi Nakamoto - an anagram "Ma, I took NSA oath".

[molecular]

Some ideas on how it could work:

- Read through the connection data (phone,email etc) from key figures of the Bitcoin community to gain insider knowledge
- Infiltrate core development and replace Bitcoin key figures with NSA staff
- Discredit respected members of the community
- Kill people, if they don't corporate.


Are core devs discussing this possiblility of a large scale infiltration and how to avoid?

What if that infiltration has already happened?

[AGD]

Some ideas on how it could work:

- Read through the connection data (phone,email etc) from key figures of the Bitcoin community to gain insider knowledge
- Infiltrate core development and replace Bitcoin key figures with NSA staff
- Discredit respected members of the community
- Kill people, if they don't corporate.


Are core devs discussing this possiblility of a large scale infiltration and how to avoid?

What if that infiltration has already happened?

Definitely more than just possible and my question still remains:

Are core devs discussing this possiblility of a large scale infiltration and how to avoid? (The answer is not related to any 51% theory or "destroying" Bitcoin, but to take control over Bitcoin development, edit: though the long time goal can indeed be to destroy Bitcoin "from inside".)

[AGD]

Some interesting stuff to read:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/i-m-a-former-green-beret-here-s-how-i-would-bring-down-bitcoin-1456165726

http://cryptohustle.com/is-craig-wright-a-fake-satoshi-and-cyber-intelligence-agent

http://shitco.in/2016/05/08/you-can-call-me-wright-craig-wright/

[gmaxwell]

A huge lumbering bureaucracy?    How about-- take over the Bitcoin Foundation and then find themselves surprised when it doesn't control Bitcoin.

[AGD]

Bitcoin reached a point where it can't be stopped anymore so I don't think there is anything to do to kill it or even control it . I mean they can try ... but I don't think they will achieve their goal . (unless the Bitcoin community goes retard and don't care about decentralization and privacy etc... anymore).

Look at this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1465013.0 The difficulty will kill Bitcoins.

Anyway that is off topic. NSA can not take control over BTC since mining takes place in China....by a few companies that runs the entire system.

If I would try to control Bitcoin, I would try to get a majority here: https://bitcoincore.org/en/team, instead of trying some multi billion dollar 51% attack.

Once more:

[AGD]

A huge lumbering bureaucracy?    How about-- take over the Bitcoin Foundation and then find themselves surprised when it doesn't control Bitcoin.

That's just one part of the game. Are you guys from core team discussing this infiltration topic and how to deal with it?

[prettybuds]

Nobody ever seems to be fond of the idea that the NSA could of course very well have invented the Bitcoin project in the first place. Really why not?

[AGD]

Nobody ever seems to be fond of the idea that the NSA could of course very well have invented the Bitcoin project in the first place. Really why not?

Most arguments are about "why should they invent an open source project, that could interrupt the banking system?", which is understandable. Shouldn't they protect their system including national banks?

I also find it unlikely, but still possible, that Bitcoin was invented by any of the known agencies. In-Q-Tel seems to like Bitcoin for some reason for example.

[pereira4]

Well considering that they can't technically do anything against it, they would start passing laws about banning the traffic from all nodes to difficult running the network, they would also try to screw up all exchanges, scary population with big jailtime, a lot of negative propaganda in the news, and have a false satoshi to mold Bitcoin they way they want it to be.

[BitconAssociation]

A huge lumbering bureaucracy?    How about-- take over the Bitcoin Foundation and then find themselves surprised when it doesn't control Bitcoin.

Ya, they so dum they tried to buy me out for one billion dollars. You no wat I tolded them? I sez 2 them no, keep your filthy fiat toilet paper!

Nobody ever seems to be fond of the idea that the NSA could of course very well have invented the Bitcoin project in the first place. Really why not?

Most arguments are about "why should they invent an open source project, that could interrupt the banking system?", which is understandable. Shouldn't they protect their system including national banks?

Bitcoin would threaten the banking system if:
1. More than a fraction of one percent of the population used it.
2. That fraction of one percent was otherwise productive members of society, not child-like criminals stealing from each other.
3. IRL adults considered Bitcoin to be more sound, as a store of value, than Beanie Babies (which are the REAL threat to the banking system, with NSA spending billions in taxpayer money to discredit Beanie Babies and suppress beanie trade).

Oddly enough, those parameters aren't met, so bitscoin is used as a honeypot, corralling the world's most inept criminals into an ecosystem where their shenanigans are monitored on the blogchain and this forum. On computer screens, by a couple of chubby agents who are otherwise useless, too weak and fat to actually be useful in the field, dealin with smart IRL criminals.

[BurtW]

Wow, sorry for your loss bro

Thanks.  I am still mad about it as you can imagine.

They actually did that to you? It's pretty harsh.

If they let you go, why did they charge you? Ive never heard of anything of the sort. Did you do anything or trade with anyone sketchy?

Yes, this happened to me, my wife and my daughter.  I agree it was very harsh and totally draconian.  A simple cease and desist letter would have done the trick.  Something like:

Dear BurtW,

We here at Homeland Security and the Justice department noticed that you have started to trade Bitcoins on the web site localbitcoins.com.  Contrary to rulings by the IRS we believe that Bitcoins are money.  Contrary to all standard definitions of the word "transmittal" we believe that by trading Bitcoins what you are doing could be transmitting money.  And finally FinCEN has stated that whether what you are doing is a business or not is a matter of fact and circumstance and we believe what you are doing may constitute a business.  Since there is no legal guidelines it would be totally up to a jury to decide if it is a business or not but we believe in our hearts and really feel that it might just possibly be a business. 

Please note that if a jury could be persuaded to rule in our favor on all three of these points then you would be facing 5 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.  So, we suggest you consult your attorney and see if you need to get a free license from FinCEN in order to trade Bitcoins on localbitcoins.com

Also, we would like to discuss with you a very small number of totally unrelated cases where we caught some kids buying drugs with Bitcoins that they just happened to buy from you.  This really has nothing to do with you but you might be able to help us in building our case against them.  Of course this would be at your discretion an convenience.  This is not some third world dictatorship under martial law where we would just arrest you, throw you in solitary confinement and try to strong arm you into helping us and steal your assets to directly fund our departments and operations.

Have a great day and thank you,

Michele Korver, AUSA

Aaron McWirter, special agent, Homeland Security Investigations

They charged me in order to extort money and Bitcoins from me.

Most people do not care about or hear about the consequences of living under the patriot act (martial law) or living in a country where their money, Bitcoins and other property can be seized, charged in a civil suit, and be considered guilty until they can prove to the authorities that their money, Bitcoins and other property is innocent.

If interested please watch this brilliant video which explains civil forfeiture.

I traded Bitcoins.  The sole charge against me was 18-1960.

They love this regulation because the patriot act applies (they can do everything in secret, lie, etc.) and more importantly civil asset forfeiture applies to this regulation.

[JaneEverycunt]

Burt, have you thought of moving to Somalia? No intrusive regulations, no civil forfeitures, guns are legal, everyone loves bitcoins and plenty of pirate treasure coves.
Your family would dig it.

[BurtW]

Burt, have you thought of moving to Somalia? No intrusive regulations, no civil forfeitures, guns are legal, everyone loves bitcoins and plenty of pirate treasure coves.
Your family would dig it.

This year my daughter's class has an assignment "decide where to reside" where the students were asked to research other places (states or countries) they might want to move to and then make a presentation on the place on why they picked the place, etc.  She is taking this assignment very seriously.

Previously they had an assignment to discuss an important issue and present it to the the class.  Most of the other students picked things like "animal cruelty".  My daughters presentation was more interesting and you can find a link to it (the first link in the first paragraph) on this page:

 http://www.jmwagner.com/about.html

[becoin]

Nobody ever seems to be fond of the idea that the NSA could of course very well have invented the Bitcoin project in the first place. Really why not?

Most arguments are about "why should they invent an open source project, that could interrupt the banking system?"

By the end of 2008 the banking system was already 'interrupted', remember? And since then there is no banking system as we know it, it is command-and-administrative system which has nothing to do with free market. At that time the main danger for masters of the Universe was re-emerging gold standard and shifting monetary power to BRICS countries. This project is for digital gold and could have been started as an alternative to physical gold. But now the masters of the Universe have problems both with gold and bitcoin. What could have happened, what is happening, and what will happen is told here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUekh6bMKJ8

[JaneEverycunt]

Burt, have you thought of moving to Somalia? No intrusive regulations, no civil forfeitures, guns are legal, everyone loves bitcoins and plenty of pirate treasure coves.
Your family would dig it.

This year my daughter's class has an assignment "decide where to reside" where the students were asked to research other places (states or countries) they might want to move to and then make a presentation on the place on why they picked the place, etc.  She is taking this assignment very seriously.

Did she pick Somalia, land of the free? Or still thinking?

Previously they had an assignment to discuss an important issue and present it to the the class.  Most of the other students picked things like "animal cruelty".  My daughters presentation was more interesting and you can find a link to it (the first link in the first paragraph) on this page:

 http://www.jmwagner.com/about.html

Err, "Final 4th Grade Presentation on Civil forfeiture.mp4"? Look, I'm again civil forfeiture, it's a scary and often misused thing, but I also know forth graders. If Daddy got jailed for stealing from the collection plate, Jesus would be a berry berry bad man.
BTW, consider not begging for donations, that's a bit off-putting.

[BurtW]

Burt, have you thought of moving to Somalia? No intrusive regulations, no civil forfeitures, guns are legal, everyone loves bitcoins and plenty of pirate treasure coves.
Your family would dig it.

This year my daughter's class has an assignment "decide where to reside" where the students were asked to research other places (states or countries) they might want to move to and then make a presentation on the place on why they picked the place, etc.  She is taking this assignment very seriously.

Did she pick Somalia, land of the free? Or still thinking?

Previously they had an assignment to discuss an important issue and present it to the the class.  Most of the other students picked things like "animal cruelty".  My daughters presentation was more interesting and you can find a link to it (the first link in the first paragraph) on this page:

 http://www.jmwagner.com/about.html

Err, "Final 4th Grade Presentation on Civil forfeiture.mp4"? Look, I'm again civil forfeiture, it's a scary and often misused thing, but I also know forth graders. If Daddy got jailed for stealing from the collection plate, Jesus would be a berry berry bad man.
BTW, consider not begging for donations, that's a bit off-putting.

I think that she may have considered Somalia but with all the government corruption, extortion, piracy, etc. she found it too much like the United States so it was taken off the list.

You do not know her.  She did that presentation on her own.  Thanks for watching it.

Consider changing your username, it's a bit off-putting.

[ArafaA]

I think china will control bitcoin soon when they own 99 % of hash-power & mining  not NASA

[SebastianJu]

They will need more hash power than the whole world mining today to do a 51% attack, which is probably nit gonna happen. There is no other way to block bitcoins.

No, that was what we believed at the start. But it proved to be a valid attack vector to attack bitcoin through it's client. Regardless of what the protocol will look like that will change the ways bitcoin goes. You could attack bitcoin through core devs or through alternative forking clients. It's best to do it both.

Yes, bitcoiners could chose, but be honest... most bitcoiners will use what is presented. Only a core of them will chose with some checking before.

[AGD]

They will need more hash power than the whole world mining today to do a 51% attack, which is probably nit gonna happen. There is no other way to block bitcoins.

No, that was what we believed at the start. But it proved to be a valid attack vector to attack bitcoin through it's client. Regardless of what the protocol will look like that will change the ways bitcoin goes. You could attack bitcoin through core devs or through alternative forking clients. It's best to do it both.

Yes, bitcoiners could chose, but be honest... most bitcoiners will use what is presented. Only a core of them will chose with some checking before.

I agree. Still I would like to know, if core team has already discussed this infiltration topic. If not ... then why not?