Would Bitcoin not have been a better option for Zimbabwe?

[Boosterious]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-36210680

I quote "bank customers are not always able to withdraw the amount of US dollars they want because of a shortage of dollar notes in Zimbabwe."

This is one of the countries in Africa with the poorest population and the greatest need for micro transactions. I think this decision will push more people to use alternative methods of payment and also alternative investment currencies to protect their wealth. We have already seen M-pesa making in-roads into Kenia and other African countries as a alternative to their reserve currency.

The political instability in that country will not help in making sound financial decisions and they hate western influences, but they accept the dollar? ^hmmmmm^

same thread about poor country because inflation,later i read post about venezuela,and now zimbabwe,that two countries have same problem,American Country and African,two different continent. but ithink not simply they can use bitcoin as answer for their problem,too much risk if they use bitcoin,and their goverment already know about this risk.

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[LCSociety]

The internet access requirement is BS.... I travelled to most of these countries and they are using mobile phones. We have seen people linking Sms's to Bitcoin and sending Bitcoin via emails.

Yeah Zimbabwe is very technologically up to date. Actually, there are parts of the US that are potentially more derelict and poverty stricken than the roughest towns in Zimbabwe.

Zimbabwe GDP per capita (yearly): $475.26 US. That's less than $1.50/day.
Can't put much of a spin on that

These numbers are hogwash

Don't believe everything you read. There are doctors that have taken flight and moved their entire family to parts of the middle east, africa, india and so on - because they can earn bundles more money via opening their own private practices in countries with less bureaucracy and red tape than the western states

Most corporations and private individuals in these "thrid world" countries don't even report their income so how these GDP numbers are produced is beyond me

It's not like in the US where the IRS has their foot firmly on the necks of the entire population - the governments of these "developing" nations make more money from managing the distribution (fairly, or unfairly) of their natural resources than they do from taxing their populations

So these GDP figures are merely pieces of fiction because there is no single collation of records showing the income of each individual in Zimbabwe or in any other developing nation

The traffic may be an issue, but you get the sense that their economy is quite mature and developed - perhaps more so than the bankrupt state of Detroit if you were to be a little pedantic

I was born in Detroit. It's mismanagement is legendary, but if you take Detroit _as a whole_ and compare it with Zimbabwe, it still beats the latter hands down in economic terms. Perhaps because Mugabe is at least as bad as Coleman Young and the rest of the bunch in Detroit combined.

Yep, one of the previous mayors of Detroit, Kwame Kilpatrick, was thrown in jail a few years back due to embezzlement and fraud. Mismanagement is an understatement

Detroit is pretty screwed economically actually. It's one sole claim to financial competence is GM... and even they have been bailed out with taxpayer money many times in the past.

Detroit financially is a joke when compared to Zimbabwe. Yes, Zimbabwe's currency is the equivalent of a premine scam - but this weak currency allows foriegn corporations to benefit by paying the people that they employ in Zimbabwe less money. When you convert this into USD, the savings are gargantuan. The gold, nickel, coal, copper, iron ore, chrome ore, and silver mining conglomerates that do a lot of work over there benefit heavily from this, and pay an intense amount of kickbacks to the Zimbabwean government.

Hence why Mugabe is the ONLY dictator from the 80's that is still in power today. He plays ball... the unites states, britain everyone loves this guy.

Unlike Saddam and Gaddaffi who refused to debase their own currencies.

Watch this video of Mugabe in London in 1976, as the BBC pleasantly describes him a Leader of the most active "group of guerrillas", prior to him seizing power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnGaSbA0aIk Was he funded by the brits? We can speculate on that, he definitely received media promotion from britian - was this part of a larger package of financial support? Who knows.

Zimbabwe is your modern day corporatocracy

But they are only able to be a corporatocracy because they have vital - and valuable - minerals. Detroit has nothing. The united states government doesn't even care about detroit enough to supply them with fresh water

[fenican]

The reason these countries don't use Bitcoin is because (1) Bitcoins are expensive and (2) The governments are broke.

Saying a country with a worthless currency and hyperinflation can "Just use bitcoin" is like claiming a homeless person can buy all the food he wants if he just stops carrying around a backpack full of junk and exchanges it for a backpack full of dollars. The logical fallacy is that you can't exchange junk for dollars just like a broke government can't exchange its worthless scrip for BTC.

[LCSociety]

(2) The governments are broke.

Which governments are broke?

Do you have information to substantiate this statement?

Which country is the LARGEST debtor nation in the history of civilisation? The United States, or Zimbabwe?

Let's look at the 'Rankings' of the countries that have the largest 'External' debt. This is Debt owed to foreign creditors: private individuals, nations and corporations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

You'll find That the United States is number one on that list, Zimbabwe is at number 99. BIG difference.

USA owes: 17 Trlllion

Zimbabwe owes: 6.9 Billion

When it comes to broke governments, the US reigns supreme.

The united states government doesn't generate money. The only money it has is the money it taxes and/or scams via government bonds, and steals via quantitative easing

This is why there is hysteria around the coming "crash" of the US Dollar. They are going to have to debase the the living daylights out of the dollar very soon, because they have to pay their debts. The united states government is so financially distraught, that they can't even dig Flint, Michigan out of their water crisis

People in Detroit literally have muddy water coming out of their kitchen and bathroom taps. Now everyone is sending buckets of fresh water there as if it were part of a third world county circa 1970's.

The are fears that the united states, in its entirety, is slowly degenerating into a third world nation

Flint Michigan is just the start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpNCUDHVt28

[Bought]

I was thinking they could print these new notes with bitcoin private keys imbedded in each note to add some intrinsic value to the notes.

Im not even sure how many people in Zimbabwe have access to a phone or anything that could scan a bitcoin barcode to see what value the paper holds. It would be a nice idea but probably not practical for a place like Zimbabwe .

[JaneEverycunt]

The internet access requirement is BS.... I travelled to most of these countries and they are using mobile phones. We have seen people linking Sms's to Bitcoin and sending Bitcoin via emails.

Yeah Zimbabwe is very technologically up to date. Actually, there are parts of the US that are potentially more derelict and poverty stricken than the roughest towns in Zimbabwe.

Zimbabwe GDP per capita (yearly): $475.26 US. That's less than $1.50/day.
Can't put much of a spin on that

These numbers are hogwash

Don't believe everything you read.

K. Ignoring lameass mainstream hogwash; trusting only you, random guy from the interweb

People in Detroit literally have muddy water coming out of their kitchen and bathroom taps.

People in Zimbabwe literally have no water coming out of their bathroom taps.
Because no bathroom taps.
Or bathrooms

[Evildrum]

The problem is always broke down to just a few issues for Countries like this.
They lack internet connection or they lack places to buy/sell bitcoin in a manner that would replace the current set up. Cell phones seem to be the only way to get around both those issues but do not know how you can create a internet network this way.

[JaneEverycunt]

The problem is always broke down to just a few issues for Countries like this.
They lack internet connection or they lack places to buy/sell bitcoin in a manner that would replace the current set up. Cell phones seem to be the only way to get around both those issues but do not know how you can create a internet network this way.

The problem is poor countries are poor, as in average person living on less than $1.50 US a day. It doesn't matter what you use for money -- poor is poor.

[LCSociety]

I was thinking they could print these new notes with bitcoin private keys imbedded in each note to add some intrinsic value to the notes.

Im not even sure how many people in Zimbabwe have access to a phone or anything that could scan a bitcoin barcode to see what value the paper holds. It would be a nice idea but probably not practical for a place like Zimbabwe .

They're quite connected actually https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdaZCfD7gT4

Large social media scene.. WhatsApp... etc ...the whole 9

Most people haven't comprehended that most major industries, such as the communications industry, are now simply mobile apps that run over the internet. Smart phone = unrestriced access to the internet and all it's capabilities

The western governments tricked everyone into believing africa was poor. Imagine if you went to a place like Nigeria and built a cement factory in the early 90's. At the rate they are throwing up multi million dollar developments today, you'd be rolling in the dough. The western governments knew this, and you better believe that they have built these types of companies throughout Africa themselves... again, stealing opportunity away from their subjects.

I told you, the US Government doesn't produce any revenue other than what they tax and scam via quantitative easing.

These $2 per month, help for africa charities were actually covert operations so that the US government could begin to pay down their debts

The united states is developing into a full blown third world nation. People in Detroit have muddy water from the sewers spewing into their shower water, and your government is not doing anything to help. Where has all the money gone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmrfiPi4H20

[Evildrum]

The problem is always broke down to just a few issues for Countries like this.
They lack internet connection or they lack places to buy/sell bitcoin in a manner that would replace the current set up. Cell phones seem to be the only way to get around both those issues but do not know how you can create a internet network this way.

The problem is poor countries are poor, as in average person living on less than $1.50 US a day. It doesn't matter what you use for money -- poor is poor.

Yes but in some parts of Africa they use mobile credits/minutes in exchange as cash,so bitcoin can be used in the same manner. Cell phones are cheaper in these areas and just need to tap into the internet which Zuckerberg is trying to do with balloons I believe,but I do not trust his end game for this.

Poor people still transact but they need to know the system is reliable and bitcoins fluctuations might not help things.

[fenican]

(2) The governments are broke.

Which country is the LARGEST debtor nation in the history of civilisation? The United States, or Zimbabwe?

Net worth = assets minus debt not just debt. The US has a net worth of approximately 123.8 trillion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_position_of_the_United_States

The federal reserve banks have a blank check they can draw against the asset base and earnings power of the United States. That's why they were able to print trillions after the Great Recession without igniting inflation - it was a drop in the bucket compared to the $296T or so of total US assets.

[LCSociety]

Net worth = assets minus debt not just debt. The US has a net worth of approximately 123.8 trillion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_position_of_the_United_States

The federal reserve banks have a blank check they can draw against the asset base and earnings power of the United States. That's why they were able to print trillions after the Great Recession without igniting inflation - it was a drop in the bucket compared to the $296T or so of total US assets.

Networth of 123.8trn yet when some old lady that has been paying taxes for 60+ years, yet has zero saved for retirement and no pension plan twists the tap in her kitchen, water from the swamp spits out into her drinking glass?

123.8 Trillion, yet the united states government turns a blind eye and allows the millions of people living in Flint Michigan to bathe in infested, infected and inferior water?

Some people in Flint Michigan haven't even bathed in months because that water is so poisonous that it poses the risk of the future development of cancer due the unsafe amounts of lead it's polluted with.

What are these assets? Assets bought with the proceeds of quantitative easing?

You say the fed has a blank check book... erm yah, in the digital currency industry we call that a premine scam. Infact, this blank checkbook you speak of is the reason why the United States has become a financial laughing stock.

Why is The United States that largest debtor nation in the HISTORY of modern civilisation?

This list shows the largest creditor nations in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_creditor_nations_by_net_international_investment_position_per_capita

Mauritius, an african nation - a "thrid world nation" is number 11 on that list. China, Singapore, Luxembourg etc all on the list. Where is the US? They're number one on the DEBTORS list.

China is a major creditor of the US. China also has the largest army in the world. Eventually they're going to demand their money with force. And the united states will debase the dollar... and Flint, Michigan will not be the only town where polluted, muddy water spews from the tap

Next electricity outages will run rampant

Third world... The beginning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw5jH8hlafc

[fenican]

Net worth = assets minus debt not just debt. The US has a net worth of approximately 123.8 trillion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_position_of_the_United_States

The federal reserve banks have a blank check they can draw against the asset base and earnings power of the United States. That's why they were able to print trillions after the Great Recession without igniting inflation - it was a drop in the bucket compared to the $296T or so of total US assets.

You say the fed has a blank check book... erm yah, in the digital currency industry we call that a premine scam. Infact, this blank checkbook you speak of is the reason why the United States has become a financial laughing stock.

Ridiculous statement. The dollar is the world's reserve currency and has risen about 35% against the basket of world currencies since 2008. US treasury notes are the gold standard for liquidity in the world.

The largest complaint the world has about the US dollar is that there are too few, not too many, of them available in circulation. That is why demand for treasury notes worldwide is so insanely high.

[LCSociety]

Ridiculous statement. The dollar is the world's reserve currency and has risen about 35% against the basket of world currencies since 2008. US treasury notes are the gold standard for liquidity in the world.

The largest complaint the world has about the US dollar is that there are too few, not too many, of them available in circulation. That is why demand for treasury notes worldwide is so insanely high.

US treasury notes are the gold standard for toilet paper at the residence of Xi Jinping

"The dollar is the world's reserve currency?" Without using common cliches, could you actually explain what that means exactly?

No one is complaining that there's too few dollars available, like you said, the federal reserve can create as much of it as they want... and this is where your problems stem from.

Muammar Gaddafi died becuase he would rather create his own currency, backed by gold to trade oil amongst allies of Libya. He would rather accept death than the promise of a lifetime supply of US fun tokens, or dollars or whatever...

The united states, world wide, is THE ultimate example of financial stupidity. When you travel out to some other country somewhere and have discussion with the locals, there is no longer any respect for america - at least not from a financial standpoint. China has taken that accolade... Singapore... Belgium... Denmark... the list goes on.

Now when the US is mentioned, it's usually because people feel sorry for you guys and want to band together and deliver some financial aid to Flint, Michigan because your very own government is too broke and financially unsavvy to help you guys out

Since the introduction of the Dollar it's value has only ever plummeted. Forget it's value against other currencies, that is a mere dog and pony show - a rigged one at that. All of these fiat currencies are resetting to their original value of zero. It is literally a scam.

The only reason you'd adopt a fiat currency is if your intent is to scam an entire nation of people of out their wealth. You mention 123.8 Trillion worth of assets. These assets were purchased with the proceeds of their quantitative easing scam. Each time they print money into existence, the pre-existing supply loses value... this is why they INSTANTLY convert these fun tokens into "assets" - yet have zero money to filter that flint water

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/a-Purchasing-Power-of-U.S.-Dollar.jpg

It's a scam. The same scam that has been perpetrated again and again since the very first fiat currency was created in 1701, in France

[Blacula X]

^^"I understood at last the look in his eyes. He was insane." --Wikiquote

[LCSociety]

^^"I understood at last the look in his eyes. He was insane." --Wikiquote

You deny the fact that in Flint, Michigan people are using bottles of Evian water to bathe in their back gardens because their tap water is unsafe?

You deny the fact that, for years, the WWF foundation and other organisations collected BILLIONS from the united states public - supposedly for "aid" in africa... (yeah right) yet, the federal government of the united states can't even supply each and every home in michigan with a simple osmosis water filter that is quite inexpensive? Inexpensive at least for a country with $123.8 Trillion in "assets."

This isn't adding up.

When people like Peter Schiff say that America is on the brink of economic devastation, everyone pokes fun.
Until someone in Detroit twists that faucet

Everything moves in cycles. France was once the worlds superpower. Egypt... Rome... Britain.... the Mongol empire.... the Moorish empire... the Persian empire...

It's time for things to reset

[The Sceptical Chymist]

And this is what I love about bitcoin, that folks in Zimbabwe or Argentina or wherever can spew nonsense earn money in signature campaigns and nearly earn a living doing so.  That's bitcoin's power--some folks rage about NWO and world currency and etc, but this is bitcoin's beauty.  Not even kidding.

[LCSociety]

And this is what I love about bitcoin, that folks in Zimbabwe or Argentina or wherever can spew nonsense earn money in signature campaigns and nearly earn a living doing so.  That's bitcoin's power--some folks rage about NWO and world currency and etc, but this is bitcoin's beauty.  Not even kidding.

Yes bitcoin literally allows the world's unbanked to plug into the global financial system. Cool beans. This is only a small iota of bitcoin's capabilities to create a fracture in the current status quo.

"Bitcoin's beauty" is not just the pocket money small men are able to earn from Yobit signature campaigns... One day, you will rely heavily on a financial product developed by some Ukrainian teenager... One day, owners of solar panel farms will trade energy back and forth, using the blockchain.

The possibilities are endless.

Maybe the US government will try their hand at the crypto market, and turn the dollar into some new "innovative" altcoin. Maybe they'll be able to host an ICO to help diminish their trillions.... and trillions... aaand trillions worth of external debt

The future is set to be interesting indeed

[Blacula X]

^^"I understood at last the look in his eyes. He was insane." --Wikiquote

You deny the fact that in Flint, Michigan people are using bottles of Evian water to bathe in their back gardens because their tap water is unsafe?

They have water and can afford brand name bottled water, unlike Zimbabwe people. Bonus: tap water considered "unsafe" in the west is ne plus ultra infant-approved hospital-grade in countries like Zimbabwe.

You deny the fact that, for years, the WWF foundation and other organisations collected BILLIONS from the united states public - supposedly for "aid" in africa... (yeah right) yet, the federal government of the united states can't even supply each and every home in michigan with a simple osmosis water filter that is quite inexpensive? Inexpensive at least for a country with $123.8 Trillion in "assets."

You want freebie osmosis water filters from your government? WTF have you done for it lately? Where's that entitled special snowflake attitude coming from, bro? Get a job, buy your own frickin' osmosis water filter.

This isn't adding up.

When people like Peter Schiff say that America is on the brink of economic devastation, everyone pokes fun.
Until someone in Detroit twists that faucet

Lol, this Detroit idee fixe of yours, what up with that? Don't like Detroit? You got legs, walk away. Or swim to Zimbabwe, they need thinking fellers like yourself over there. You''ll be fartin' through silk in no time

[Raimonn]

In Zimbawe bitcoin could be a good solution for users that have money to invest as a future savings with their inflation bitcoin could be good to increase its money, but not for daily expenses.