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Author Topic: 2013-02-23 cnet.com - Need Bitcoins? This ATM takes dollars and funds your accou  (Read 4209 times)
deeplink
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February 24, 2013, 02:01:30 PM
 #21

I wonder what the business model is though. As said on other threads, these machines need maintenance and are not vandalism stable. You can't just put it near the toilets and forget about them. Most likely you would put them on the bar with the bar tender pulling cash out every now and then.

Ok, so now there is this machine. I own a bar in NH. Why would I want it? Commission is 1%. Turn over is $1000 per month (as long as I'm the only one in town) and the machine costs $2000 with internet and electricity? That would mean the commissions pay for it in 200 months? Which bar would do that now? Ok, in New York it would have a turn over of maybe $10k paying for itself if 2 years but which bar would believe that? Sure the makers of the BATM dream of selling thousands but I guess they are ahead of time with this. Either they pay bars to be allowed to put the machine there and earn the commissions or the bars are not ready for that yet.

It depends on the type of customers you want to attract. I know for a fact that personally I would choose a bar/restaurant or any store in fact that allows me to pay with Bitcoin over one that doesn't. But I admit, I don't care about the 1% commission.

Also don't forget this is still a prototype. If it takes off this could be a huge boost for Bitcoin.
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February 24, 2013, 02:17:17 PM
 #22

I wonder what the business model is though. As said on other threads, these machines need maintenance and are not vandalism stable. You can't just put it near the toilets and forget about them. Most likely you would put them on the bar with the bar tender pulling cash out every now and then.

Ok, so now there is this machine. I own a bar in NH. Why would I want it? Commission is 1%. Turn over is $1000 per month (as long as I'm the only one in town) and the machine costs $2000 with internet and electricity? That would mean the commissions pay for it in 200 months? Which bar would do that now? Ok, in New York it would have a turn over of maybe $10k paying for itself if 2 years but which bar would believe that? Sure the makers of the BATM dream of selling thousands but I guess they are ahead of time with this. Either they pay bars to be allowed to put the machine there and earn the commissions or the bars are not ready for that yet.

It depends on the type of customers you want to attract. I know for a fact that personally I would choose a bar/restaurant or any store in fact that allows me to pay with Bitcoin over one that doesn't. But I admit, I don't care about the 1% commission.

Also don't forget this is still a prototype. If it takes off this could be a huge boost for Bitcoin.

In what way would a bar that sells bitcoin take bitcoin for their beer?
If the machine was the other way round, I would understand your point. You could walk in with bitcoins only and get a beer even if the shop owner had no clue of bitcoin. It would facilitate the conversion of shops to "accept" bitcoin and the commission would make sense as the customer would pay 1% to the bar on top of the beer they bought.

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February 24, 2013, 02:28:58 PM
 #23

I wonder what the business model is though. As said on other threads, these machines need maintenance and are not vandalism stable. You can't just put it near the toilets and forget about them. Most likely you would put them on the bar with the bar tender pulling cash out every now and then.

Ok, so now there is this machine. I own a bar in NH. Why would I want it? Commission is 1%. Turn over is $1000 per month (as long as I'm the only one in town) and the machine costs $2000 with internet and electricity? That would mean the commissions pay for it in 200 months? Which bar would do that now? Ok, in New York it would have a turn over of maybe $10k paying for itself if 2 years but which bar would believe that? Sure the makers of the BATM dream of selling thousands but I guess they are ahead of time with this. Either they pay bars to be allowed to put the machine there and earn the commissions or the bars are not ready for that yet.

Put it in a bar in LA, show people how easy it is to send money to other countries and watch the turnover climb through the roof.
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February 24, 2013, 02:36:48 PM
 #24

In what way would a bar that sells bitcoin take bitcoin for their beer?
If the machine was the other way round, I would understand your point. You could walk in with bitcoins only and get a beer even if the shop owner had no clue of bitcoin. It would facilitate the conversion of shops to "accept" bitcoin and the commission would make sense as the customer would pay 1% to the bar on top of the beer they bought.

You're right, I was assuming that a bar that has a USD->Bitcoin ATM would also accept BTC for beer, but that would not necessarily be the case. It would be schizophrenic though to have the ATM and not accept BTC.
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February 24, 2013, 03:03:34 PM
 #25

This machine looks like if I needed some USD I could just stick the machine into my backpack and go home with it.

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February 24, 2013, 03:06:03 PM
 #26

In bars since it doesn't pay out dollars for BTC, that is less dollars in the pocket of the drinker/customer to spend at the bar, so unless the bar accepts BTC, it will be a disincentive to the bar. Now if it were to go in reverse it would be an incentive for the bars to have in that case.

I think bars might be sold on the idea if presented the idea as a security benefit to accept bitcoins and have less dollars/cash on hand to rob, but still hard as the BTC box teller would have cash/dollars in it.

I think a better location would be at a Mall and all stores in mall accept bitcoins, a BTC mall, that would be awesome.

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February 24, 2013, 03:10:20 PM
 #27

In what way would a bar that sells bitcoin take bitcoin for their beer?
If the machine was the other way round, I would understand your point. You could walk in with bitcoins only and get a beer even if the shop owner had no clue of bitcoin. It would facilitate the conversion of shops to "accept" bitcoin and the commission would make sense as the customer would pay 1% to the bar on top of the beer they bought.

You're right, I was assuming that a bar that has a USD->Bitcoin ATM would also accept BTC for beer, but that would not necessarily be the case. It would be schizophrenic though to have the ATM and not accept BTC.

Is it really schizophrenic to buy a machine that magically accumulates thousands of dollars every month if I'm allowed to keep 1% in case I send the rest to the guy that sold me this magic box? Even if the bar owner cares about what bitcoins are, does he really need to accept them for his business? In Germany we have machines in bars that sell cigarettes that you are not allowed to use in that bar neither. Same with condoms.

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February 24, 2013, 03:15:01 PM
 #28

In bars since it doesn't pay out dollars for BTC, that is less dollars in the pocket of the drinker/customer to spend at the bar, so unless the bar accepts BTC, it will be a disincentive to the bar. Now if it were to go in reverse it would be an incentive for the bars to have in that case.

I think bars might be sold on the idea if presented the idea as a security benefit to accept bitcoins and have less dollars/cash on hand to rob, but still hard as the BTC box teller would have cash/dollars in it.

I think a better location would be at a Mall and all stores in mall accept bitcoins, a BTC mall, that would be awesome.

For the security concern I wonder why the ATMs at supermarkets don't get filled with the bills people spend there. The way it is today, a security company comes heavily armored to fetch the daily income of the supermarket and another security company comes to deliver fresh bills for the ATMs. If the ATMs would accept batches of $$, the bank could pay the supermarket for filling the ATM at least partially and the supermarket could save money by not needing a daily cash fetch.

With bitcoins, if the supermarket cashier functions as an ATM, it could also get rid of its dangerous bills by selling it to the customers. Anyway the BATM has to be bidirectional. The one way thing is a maintenance nightmare.

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February 24, 2013, 03:31:26 PM
 #29

Getting dollars out of an BTCATM would be pretty easy was for thieves to steal your bitcoins for easy cash.  If someone stole your phone or you lose your phone and they could access your bitcoin app, they could clean out your bitcoins up to what ever daily limit there may be on the BTCATM.

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February 24, 2013, 03:53:34 PM
 #30

Getting dollars out of an BTCATM would be pretty easy was for thieves to steal your bitcoins for easy cash.  If someone stole your phone or you lose your phone and they could access your bitcoin app, they could clean out your bitcoins up to what ever daily limit there may be on the BTCATM.

Doesnt make sense: If someone has your phone with bitcoin-app without pin they can clean out your complete balance with no limit and without the use of some bitcoin ATM by just sending the bitcoins to their wallet.

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February 24, 2013, 03:59:44 PM
 #31

Getting dollars out of an BTCATM would be pretty easy was for thieves to steal your bitcoins for easy cash.  If someone stole your phone or you lose your phone and they could access your bitcoin app, they could clean out your bitcoins up to what ever daily limit there may be on the BTCATM.

Doesnt make sense: If someone has your phone with bitcoin-app without pin they can clean out your complete balance with no limit and without the use of some bitcoin ATM by just sending the bitcoins to their wallet.


That is assuming the thief has a bitcoin wallet, most thieves i know dont want to go through all the trouble of going through a service to convert bitcoins to cash/dollars, it makes it super easy to quickly and anonymously make cash quick. Its not that they cant use another wallet like you stated, just super easy with a BTCATM....thieves them to be lazy and want the least amount of effort.

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February 24, 2013, 04:09:03 PM
 #32

Bitcoins -> Vendor Scrip instead of Bitcoins -> Cash

I provide a machine to Joe's Bar (and Alice's Laundromat, Bill's Bike shop)etc. The machine can do Cash -> Bitcoins exactly the way demonstrated. But it can also do Bitcoins -> Joe's Bar Scrip to pay for a bill. You send BTC to the machine and it spits out a $74.14 coupon only good at Joe's Bar, and for that night only. Joe would need a way to prove it came from the machine, easily scan a receipt with smart phone.

The next day, I visit Joes Bar and give cash for the scrip. My money comes from the few % off of the bid/ask.

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February 24, 2013, 04:21:26 PM
 #33

In what way would a bar that sells bitcoin take bitcoin for their beer?
If the machine was the other way round, I would understand your point. You could walk in with bitcoins only and get a beer even if the shop owner had no clue of bitcoin. It would facilitate the conversion of shops to "accept" bitcoin and the commission would make sense as the customer would pay 1% to the bar on top of the beer they bought.

You're right, I was assuming that a bar that has a USD->Bitcoin ATM would also accept BTC for beer, but that would not necessarily be the case. It would be schizophrenic though to have the ATM and not accept BTC.

Is it really schizophrenic to buy a machine that magically accumulates thousands of dollars every month if I'm allowed to keep 1% in case I send the rest to the guy that sold me this magic box? Even if the bar owner cares about what bitcoins are, does he really need to accept them for his business? In Germany we have machines in bars that sell cigarettes that you are not allowed to use in that bar neither. Same with condoms.

Condom machines promote safe sex. They are not offered because bar owners want their customers to have sex in the bar. At least, I have lived in Germany and I was not aware of that.

Smoking is not allowed in bars because the government prohibits it, not because of free choice. The bar owner and customers preference is that they would rather decide for themselves if the bar is smoking or non-smoking.

If a bar doesn't care about the customers they want to attract, then they would offer any machine they can get their hands on, as long as it generates marginal profit, whether it is for cigarettes, condoms, gambling, etc. I argue that most bars do have a vision about the type of customers they want to attract. So most bars will only offer machines as a service to their customers if that is in line with their vision. You won't find a condom machine in the pub next to the church. But I also can't imagine an Irish pub without a cigarettes machine.

Schizophrenic is hyperbole for the sake of argument. I think offering a Bitcoin ATM and not accepting payment in Bitcoin would reveal a serious schizophrenic business vision on part of the bar owner.
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February 24, 2013, 06:21:44 PM
 #34

Very cool. Wishing them all the best. I hope it takes off for both their sake and the sake of bitcoin. I would totally use this to deposit any spare cash in my wallet back to bitcoin.

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February 24, 2013, 06:48:21 PM
 #35

I think offering a Bitcoin ATM and not accepting payment in Bitcoin would reveal a serious schizophrenic business vision on part of the bar owner.

Perhaps. I would think shop owners would find the profit margins on machines pretty good and the machines would act like advertising bringing in additional foot traffic. So even if the machines did not make much money selling bitcoins they could make money selling other stuff.

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February 24, 2013, 07:32:49 PM
 #36

Right now demand for bitcoins far outstrips the supply, so many people will drive to the bar only to get some coins, and maybe they will celebrate their new purchase with a beer or two
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February 24, 2013, 08:16:58 PM
 #37

There's only one place I can see a market for this.  It would be perfect in a coin/collectible shop where people go to buy and sell gold.  Instead of buying gold coins, they could buy some bitcoins.
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February 24, 2013, 08:28:08 PM
 #38

Fantastic machine, but to be complete it should be able to do also the opposite: convert bitcoins to cash.
-1 To be completely banned, it should convert B to cash. No significant government would allow these machines all over the place laundering money without KYC, and against the current AML laws!  Cheesy

For many people here, B is a one-way ticket out of fiat, and the goal is to not use fiat unless one absolutely must. So, i think it's perfect as is and will do fine without B>fiat conversion...

If there is no local video surveillance, it would be a great way to buy B pseudonanymously.

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February 24, 2013, 10:59:24 PM
 #39

I used the machine and they did a good job on it. There's a few finishing touches it needs, but I think it can be very successful.

IMHO they just need to
  • Hide the guts that are visible through the scan window
  • Improve the camera so smaller QR codes can be used
  • Harden the case

I have a business card (laminated) with an address QR code on it, and it was too small. They were able to work around that, and the deposits to your wallet are lightning fast.

Overall, very impressed.

Shire Silver, a better bullion that fits in your wallet. Get some, now accepting bitcoin!
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February 24, 2013, 11:35:01 PM
 #40

Pretty awesome!

It works exactly as western union without all those hassles of filling the form, paying high fee etc...

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