Ripple distribution by proof of work?

[misterbigg]

Why not distribute XRPs based on a proof of work? This could be done with a simple web application, with the difficulty adjusted in such a way so as to feed out the XRPs at a constant rate (adjustable by OpenCoin foundation).

[Sunny King]

You mean the type of 'proof-of-work' by solving captchas right?

I just don't think they will cater to miners like you suggest as it's against their stated goal of 'distributing as evenly and as widely as possible.'

[misterbigg]

You mean the type of 'proof-of-work' by solving captchas right?

No, I mean finding a hash in a fashion similar to Bitcoin. This could be done with client side Javascript or something equivalent to slow down the acquisition of XRP and make it prohibitively expensive to farm them.

[shamaniotastook]

You mean the type of 'proof-of-work' by solving captchas right?

No, I mean finding a hash in a fashion similar to Bitcoin. This could be done with client side Javascript or something equivalent to slow down the acquisition of XRP and make it prohibitively expensive to farm them.

they've put A LOT of effort into the propaganda justifying pre-mining 100 billion coins, giving 20% to developers. i honestly believe that they could not make their plan sync with a proof of work, namely because as things are currently, proof-of-work makes it so those with the most hashing power get all the goodies, leaving newcomers, or those with lesser hardware out in the cold...

when i look at ripple, what it 'feels' like is compared in my mind to someone configuring a social-trust-router (in a sense)...it's VERY technical, but allows some great functionality for those so inclined to understand. for this reason, i'm thinking of the future of XRP (once this go around fails), and i see a future as a social-trust protocol layer. computer algorithms could learn trading patterns and establish lines of trust based upon interactions among those in the various gateways.

i've said enough (still a newbie here, as far as posting goes)...but i can say that they lost me at pre-mined and 'give away in as fair a way as possible'...

[JoelKatz]

Why not distribute XRPs based on a proof of work? This could be done with a simple web application, with the difficulty adjusted in such a way so as to feed out the XRPs at a constant rate (adjustable by OpenCoin foundation).

This is definitely one of the ways we are considering. One of the advantages of this scheme is that it can be highly automated. It is difficult to game if the PoW algorithm is carefully chosen. The downside is that it's not particularly fair, except for an unusual sense of fair.

[shamaniotastook]

This is definitely one of the ways we are considering. One of the advantages of this scheme is that it can be highly automated. It is difficult to game if the PoW algorithm is carefully chosen. The downside is that it's not particularly fair, except for an unusual sense of fair.

i do not see how anyone could call pre-mining and distribution by committee 'fair'...what is the difference between a group of bankers deciding who gets funded and controlling outcomes of wars, and a group of hackers distributing the right to trade between currencies?

if not proof of work, then somehow xrp distribution needs to be tied to legitimate trading volume within the overall market.

it is a complex problem. and one thing i have to admit is that the BitCoin community (as ever) is amazingly supportive of new ideas, the more insane the better...but ultimately, i see a good balance of optimistic support and critical analysis, but even the most critical analysis appears to be mostly constructive criticism...

also, 100-billion is NOT a very big number, though it may seem like it is...just consider that within the next few years the proliferation of the Internet of Things, where a sneaker could be sending transactions through the network for each step (think this sounds crazy?) how about fridges sending transactions to stores on an item-by-item, as-needed basis, etc., etc...someday (very soon) we'll see 100-billion transactions in a day...maybe i missed it, but unless those 100-billion are divisible into even smaller units, this might be a limitation.

[markm]

The moment they release the server source code we can all start our own networks and give away as many zillions of whateverwewannacallthems to whoever we choose. Fair enough?

-MarkM-

[matthewh3]

The moment they release the server source code we can all start our own networks and give away as many zillions of whateverwewannacallthems to whoever we choose. Fair enough?

-MarkM-

Would all the new networks integrate together and with ripple.com

[markm]

Not if they don't use the current ledgers, that show how many of what, such as XRP, each account has.

More likely one would change the default port and change the magic handshake bytes if the connection protocol has such a thing like *coins do, so even if you happen to find a different brandname at that port you'd recognise its not one on your network so not try to synchronise with it (after all, it won't think you own all the ripples!)

Oh and, give yourself all the ripples, of course.

Not that that is your motivation for making the new different network, of course.

Its just an unfortunate necessity that they have to start somewhere.

You'll divvy them up much better than anyone else would, of course.

After all, you can be trusted, others cannot.

And your idea of how to do it is the best idea of all.

-MarkM-

[shamaniotastook]

Oh and, give yourself all the ripples, of course.

Not that that is your motivation for making the new different network, of course.

Its just an unfortunate necessity that they have to start somewhere.

You'll divvy them up much better than anyone else would, of course.

After all, you can be trusted, others cannot.

And your idea of how to do it is the best idea of all.

-MarkM-

Oh, and give yourself 20% of all ripples, of course (and control the other 80%)

Not that is your motivation for making the new different network, of course.

It's just an unfortunate necessity that they have to start with delegation by 'committee and charter' rather than algorithmic rigor

You'll divvy them up much better than anyone else will, of course

After all, you can be trusted, others cannot because they don't have as many posts as you

And your idea of how to do it is the best idea of all!!!

[Monster Tent]

Why not distribute XRPs based on a proof of work? This could be done with a simple web application, with the difficulty adjusted in such a way so as to feed out the XRPs at a constant rate (adjustable by OpenCoin foundation).

They could make you watch youtube videos or other advertising 

[shamaniotastook]

Why not distribute XRPs based on a proof of work? This could be done with a simple web application, with the difficulty adjusted in such a way so as to feed out the XRPs at a constant rate (adjustable by OpenCoin foundation).

They could make you watch youtube videos or other advertising 

or just make the proof-of-work that you win at least a 64x bet at satoshi dice

[jtimon]

Besides not being particularly fair, proof of work is wasteful if you don't need it for security !!!

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

It's almost axiomatic that the only "fair" way to distribute scarce goods is to require people to give up other scarce goods to attain them: time, money, energy, electricity, whatever. And of course the founders must follow the same rules. Any other system necessarily gives tremendous power to the allocators from the moment those goods take on a market value.

For XRP that horse has already left the stable: they have market value. OpenCoin's "giveaway" allocation is now floating dead in the water. People only need to wake up to this and notice the obvious perverse incentives. Time to go back to the drawing board.

[JoelKatz]

OpenCoin's "giveaway" allocation is now floating dead in the water.

Can you clarify what you mean by this? I'm genuinely puzzled.

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

Honestly I don't remember what I was getting at there. The giveaway seems alive and well at this point. Comment retracted.

[alexkravets]

At the moment the ripple network has a lot of isolated disconnected nodes.  It's not enough to distribute initial XRPs, one must also ensure enough incentive for people to connect to each other and to establish at least minimal lines of trust in their local currencies or BTCs.

Why not do a cascading distribution where people get an initial allocation for simply signing up, solving a CAPTCHA and verifying their email by clicking on a link and then they would get additional bonuses over time for connecting out to friends and family ?

[duckbillp]

At the moment the ripple network has a lot of isolated disconnected nodes.  It's not enough to distribute initial XRPs, one must also ensure enough incentive for people to connect to each other and to establish at least minimal lines of trust in their local currencies or BTCs.

Why not do a cascading distribution where people get an initial allocation for simply signing up, solving a CAPTCHA and verifying their email by clicking on a link and then they would get additional bonuses over time for connecting out to friends and family ?

For one thing, this would allow people to sign up for as many accounts as they can create email addresses, and receive XRP for each of them. Second, connecting (extending trust) to friends and family is not necessarily desirable, and it shouldn't be encouraged unless you have a good reason to do it.

[alexkravets]

At the moment the ripple network has a lot of isolated disconnected nodes.  It's not enough to distribute initial XRPs, one must also ensure enough incentive for people to connect to each other and to establish at least minimal lines of trust in their local currencies or BTCs.

Why not do a cascading distribution where people get an initial allocation for simply signing up, solving a CAPTCHA and verifying their email by clicking on a link and then they would get additional bonuses over time for connecting out to friends and family ?

For one thing, this would allow people to sign up for as many accounts as they can create email addresses, and receive XRP for each of them. Second, connecting (extending trust) to friends and family is not necessarily desirable, and it shouldn't be encouraged unless you have a good reason to do it.

Simply requiring aged gmail or yahoo accounts helps prevent multi account sign ups, similar to how only aged bitcointalk.org accounts receive the giveaways.  Gmail had referrals by friends in its beta early access period, same can be done for ripple accounts, this would just create some scarcity for them at first.  Encouraging connectivity in the long run is desirable to create viable paths in the network, for now that maybe deferred.

[markm]

How/where can you look up the age of a gmail or yahoo or hotmail etc account?

-MarkM-