Do not use USB sticks for long term storage! Its not safe!

[Barbut]

What is the point of so much security? How many bitcoins OP have when he make this kind of security.

I think if someone wish to rob you, you can do what ever you wish and in end you will be robbed.

[BitcoinSupremo]

Just a reminder
Its not safe to use USB sticks or SSDs for long term storage they lose data over time if they are not powered!
You can't just stick your private keys on a few USB sticks or SSD and box them up for 4 - 8 years you will lose all your coins.
For long term storage have at least 3 backups paper wallets or HDDs. You can even use something like DropBox But be sure to encrypt your wallet and change the name.
You can even hide your wallet inside a image file.

I've said this a few times, but not this clear, so I'd add a well done here.

My usual advice is to keep the private keys in (laminated) paper wallets. This would be the safest copy, the primary copy.
For commodity you can still keep a secondary copy on USB sticks, just after some 1-2 years you should move the data on another stick, else you can lose it.

Since dropbox also came into discussion, I'd advise for tresorit.com or similar cloud storage providers: the ones that offer end-to-end encryption, which (at least on paper) means that whoever reads their server cannot see your data plainly (like in the case of dropbox).

Best advice here, anyone should know (and I guess only newbies don't) that USB sticks can become corrupted over time, so its ideal solution to change that USB every 6 months (just a 1GB usb which is cheap can contain your SEED phrase) so you will be safe. Of course don't throw the old USB away, you never know it may not break, so keep all of your USB-s during this time in a safe place for you.
I would stay away from any online upload file service no matter how safe they advertise to be, for your own safety.

[RealRimlin]

Omg, thx for advice
I never through about it

What about microSD cards etc., same problem?

[jdmorgan]

Just a reminder

Its not safe to use USB sticks or SSDs for long term storage they lose data over time if they are not powered!

You can't just stick your private keys on a few USB sticks or SSD and box them up for 4 - 8 years you will lose all your coins.

For long term storage have at least 3 backups paper wallets or HDDs. You can even use something like DropBox But be sure to encrypt your wallet and change the name.

You can even hide your wallet inside a image file.

I didn't know that after 8 years without power flash storage loose data..

Dear, Saint and blessed paper

[romero121]

Omg, thx for advice
I never through about it

What about microSD cards etc., same problem?

More or less microsd cards too have the same features as the USB's, so its better to avoid those too for the enhanced security.

[spidergoat]

Omg, thx for advice
I never through about it

What about microSD cards etc., same problem?

MicroSD cards are much worst due to the size and the cost of the storage. The size would be a problem since it would be hardly visible in most situations and you can easily break it. MicroSD cards can be much more expensive than flash drives while being less convenient to connect to your computer/devices.

[MrBig]

How about engraving the keys on a piece of stainless steel?

[thejaytiesto]

I was considering a trezor, but I don't see how trezor like devices aren't going to suffer from the same thing as any solid state storage, so I think I will keep saving my stuff on different usb and on different hard drives too and do period backups. It's simply impossible that they all break at the same time and I end up with no bitcoins. Additionally, upping it somewhere with a strong password and changing the file extension seems like a good idea, but im not sure if changing the file extension cam damage a wallet file.

[Quantus]

As far as I know you can change the file extension to anything just remember not to change the name and extension to anything that your computer is already using and then try to hide your file inside that program folder, you will likely break the program and/or overwrite your data.

If I was forced to share my PC with someone I would create a new wallet.dat file with a few dollars of bitcoins on it and use that as a decoy. My real wallet would have a new name like cat.img inside a folder full of cat images.


If you want to protect your bitcoins from attackers your best tactic is to hide them where a automated program wouldn't look and under a name and file extension the program would care about.

[BurjDubai]

Usb sticks for short term storage only

[fenican]

I think we may be chasing a Red Herring here.

Flash manufacturers test their devices at >125C, which is EXTREMELY hot, for 1000 hours with 0 data retention loss to be standards compliant.

According to this study, which someone posted in response to a Trezor discussion, 1000 hours at 150C is equivalent to a century at 25C

http://www.nxp.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/eng_bulletin/EB618.pdf

[Quantus]

You believe what you want but my own personal life experiences with memory sticks have tought me to be very weary of the listed manufacturer specifications and tolerances.

[Junko]

Paper wallet
Laminate it
Keep in bank safety deposit box (~ $15 - $25 per year)
Tattoo private key microscopically camouflaged within another tattoo on your body.

Make sure trusted family member has access to bank safety deposit box in the event of your death. Also inform trusted family member of hidden tattoo for private key(s).

Another option could be to keep copy of private keys in separate safety deposit box at a different bank in case you don't like tattoos or in case you die in a horrible fire and your body is burned to a crisp or you get eaten alive by sharks or a pack of wild dogs.

Also be sure to give trusted family member access to this second safety deposit box in your death will.

[Ultrafinery]

I think we may be chasing a Red Herring here.

Flash manufacturers test their devices at >125C, which is EXTREMELY hot, for 1000 hours with 0 data retention loss to be standards compliant.

According to this study, which someone posted in response to a Trezor discussion, 1000 hours at 150C is equivalent to a century at 25C

http://www.nxp.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/eng_bulletin/EB618.pdf

That's talking about the silicon, the wafer itself. Not the whole device, which has other parts (caps that short, resistors that drift up, possibly other silicon, circuit runners/solder connections that go bad due to shitty substrate/thermal cycling, etc., etc.).
And, of course, it's probably something like half-life, e.g. "50% chance X will be broken in 100 years," that sort of thing, not a guarantee that X won't break in the next 5 minutes.

The company posting that study guarantees its products for, according to them, 10 to 20 years. That's replacement cost, AFAIK, not "we'll make good on all the data you lost."

[Quantus]

I Laminated some stuff when I was a kid and now 20+ years later I find some of the ink has blotched a bit. Just make sure the ink is dry first.


Yes Just as a new AA battery can lose charge over time a SSD or USB memory stick can lose the incredibly weak charge it holds in each of its millions of gates. A solid state device has no moving parts, data is stored by

holding a small amount of charge inside each gate, that charge over time can leak out. Some memory sticks can hold up to 3 distinct energy levels so even the smallest change in voltage from electron drift or whatever

can over time change the output of that gate corrupting your data. This is why you must power them up from time to time. The controller inside the USB device or SSD will 'top up" all the gates with the appropriate

amount of voltage to ensure you don't lose any data but it must be done regularly.  

There are other failure mechanisms that can cause a gate to lose their voltage, I was just reading about "whiskers" (because they look like hair) growing off cheap tin transistors causing faults.

http://www.jacmusic.com/html/club/Link-List/Whiskers/microscope1.jpg

[crazyivan]

Well, 6 different sticks on 6 different locations should do the trick! 

[AsaroUk]

Just a reminder

Its not safe to use USB sticks or SSDs for long term storage they lose data over time if they are not powered!

You can't just stick your private keys on a few USB sticks or SSD and box them up for 4 - 8 years you will lose all your coins.

For long term storage have at least 3 backups paper wallets or HDDs. You can even use something like DropBox But be sure to encrypt your wallet and change the name.

You can even hide your wallet inside a image file.

Can this really happen? because i have never experienced something like this in my whole life. I never had trouble with any of my usb sticks that I use so maybe it depends on which usb.

[sbtctalk]

What about hardware USB wallets? Since it is USB based, it has to be regularly plugged in?

[GoldBit89]

Paper wallet
Laminate it
Keep in bank safety deposit box (~ $15 - $25 per year)
Tattoo private key microscopically camouflaged within another tattoo on your body.

Make sure trusted family member has access to bank safety deposit box in the event of your death. Also inform trusted family member of hidden tattoo for private key(s).

Another option could be to keep copy of private keys in separate safety deposit box at a different bank in case you don't like tattoos or in case you die in a horrible fire and your body is burned to a crisp or you get eaten alive by sharks or a pack of wild dogs.

Also be sure to give trusted family member access to this second safety deposit box in your death will.

Keeping anything in a bank safety deposit box is worse then taking your chances with storage devices.

[Wendigo]

What about hardware USB wallets? Since it is USB based, it has to be regularly plugged in?

I am not completely sure what will happen to the data on the device if it's been left unpowered for months or even years but assuming that Bitcoin hardware wallets have the same flash memory like in ordinary thumb drives it's possible that the data may be lost if you haven't used it once for years. To feel more safe you could just create backups of the private keys of your Bitcoin hardware wallet on laminated pieces of paper and keep them in addition to the hardware device and if the hardware malfunctions you could always restore your Bitcoins by using the paper backups. It's never a good idea to put all of your eggs in one basket.