[BitFunder] Bitcoin Pride - Bitcoin Shirts

[ThickAsThieves]

I expect for the profit to increase in the coming months. This will be mainly due to us opening up retail sales of Bitcoin. We are currently working out a deal with PayLeap which will enable us to take debit card purchases for instant Bitcoin. If this deal goes through we will be one of the first Bitcoin Retailers to except debit pin codes. We are also exploring more ways that we can safely deliver Bitcoins to our growing fanbase. We have made these profits with virtually no paid advertising. We are now going to be investing in a variety of paid advertising options including taking out a FULL PAGE ad in Bitcoin Magazine, and getting some community giveaways going to promote sales and awareness. I am heavily invested in Bitcoin myself, and I only seek to increase the value of my investment, and with that said I make sure everything I do is done for the betterment of all Bitcoin not just a few.

Find out more about me here:http://bitcoinmagazine.com/uptweet-social-media-and-bitcoin-meet-again/

BTCPride sells bitcoins?

Why don't you have this advertising info in your stock description, that's good stuff!

[miTgiB]

Why does this look exactly like the ZigGap OP? Are the issues related? I'm thinking, they were written up by a PR man working for BitFunder (i.e. it might not be a 'bad' reason). Please inform! ty

Would guess they saw ZigGap sell a ton with no real plan, no record, no projections etc and figured they may as well copy the contract and get a load of BTC themselves.  Heck I'm tempted to make an alt, register a domain and sell 50 million shares myself - just need to sell 10 million 'cheap' at an Early Bird price and people will just throw their money my way to get in on the 'bargain'.

Have you gone through our products?

We worked really hard on the site.

We seek to continue the same level of quality that we are achieving now.

What I see from your limited gfinancials is that you launched 3 months back and sales have declined ever since - suggesting once you'd tapped your initial fan-club of purchasers there was little revenue left to be had.  Generally when investing I look for a company whose sales increase - not decline: hence my mention of projections.

What dividend/share do you expect to be paid in March, April, May etc?  That's the sort of information I'd like to see - but can't really fault you for not giving it given the willingness of the community to throw money at people who provide no information at all.  We all saw how everyone got burned first time round doing that - guess it needs a 2nd round to drive the point home.  Hopefully you aren't one of the companies proving how idea + marginally profitable business + investment does NOT automatically mean profit (but statistically there's probably about a 90% chance you are).

I have nothing against the business model, and FlipPro sounds sincere enough and seems to have pride in his product, but where I look at the available investments for a bitcoin economy, one that depends on converting national fiat to bitcoin just doesn't make sense to me for a long term investment.  Sales and profit can grow while BTC/USD grows even faster and your dividend shrinks.  Buying the precious metal funds make sense to me, but as a hedge against a falling bitcoin.  Mining stocks and maybe the bonds issued by them seem to be the only thing currently besides gambling that seem to be stable enough to survive in a bitcoin only economy.

[ThickAsThieves]

Mining stocks and maybe the bonds issued by them seem to be the only thing currently besides gambling that seem to be stable enough to survive in a bitcoin only economy.

How are mining investments more stable in the face of an unknown number of ASICs being released at an unpredictable pace?

[miTgiB]

Mining stocks and maybe the bonds issued by them seem to be the only thing currently besides gambling that seem to be stable enough to survive in a bitcoin only economy.

How are mining investments more stable in the face of an unknown number of ASICs being released at an unpredictable pace?

That is where doing your diligence comes in, those that invested in ASICminer look to be ok, the latest auctions at .4+ per share have a fair shot as well, maybe smart, maybe bag holders, only time will tell.  Some of the miners have plans in place to convert to ASIC gear.  Thinking about the bitcoin without the value in national currency is the only way to value them.  This in my eyes is really a bond that pays a dividend based on profits converted back to bitcoin, so as the value of BTC rises and falls, so does the dividend.

Your question is certainly a valid one, but the point I am trying to relay is my feeling of a good/bad investment, and I can't see how a share of profits based on currency values is good for the long term.  I might be completely wrong in my thoughts, but it is a discussion I have not seen I would like to have, but maybe not in this thread, it's probably not appropriate to highjack.   

[FlipPro]

Why does this look exactly like the ZigGap OP? Are the issues related? I'm thinking, they were written up by a PR man working for BitFunder (i.e. it might not be a 'bad' reason). Please inform! ty

Would guess they saw ZigGap sell a ton with no real plan, no record, no projections etc and figured they may as well copy the contract and get a load of BTC themselves.  Heck I'm tempted to make an alt, register a domain and sell 50 million shares myself - just need to sell 10 million 'cheap' at an Early Bird price and people will just throw their money my way to get in on the 'bargain'.

Have you gone through our products?

We worked really hard on the site.

We seek to continue the same level of quality that we are achieving now.

What I see from your limited gfinancials is that you launched 3 months back and sales have declined ever since - suggesting once you'd tapped your initial fan-club of purchasers there was little revenue left to be had.  Generally when investing I look for a company whose sales increase - not decline: hence my mention of projections.

What dividend/share do you expect to be paid in March, April, May etc?  That's the sort of information I'd like to see - but can't really fault you for not giving it given the willingness of the community to throw money at people who provide no information at all.  We all saw how everyone got burned first time round doing that - guess it needs a 2nd round to drive the point home.  Hopefully you aren't one of the companies proving how idea + marginally profitable business + investment does NOT automatically mean profit (but statistically there's probably about a 90% chance you are).

I have nothing against the business model, and FlipPro sounds sincere enough and seems to have pride in his product, but where I look at the available investments for a bitcoin economy, one that depends on converting national fiat to bitcoin just doesn't make sense to me for a long term investment.  Sales and profit can grow while BTC/USD grows even faster and your dividend shrinks.  Buying the precious metal funds make sense to me, but as a hedge against a falling bitcoin.  Mining stocks and maybe the bonds issued by them seem to be the only thing currently besides gambling that seem to be stable enough to survive in a bitcoin only economy.

Your shares are held in PURE BTC and your profits are paid out in PURE BTC.

You can cash them out at any time with the amount of volume we are getting already, whenever you feel the need to take advantage of an urgent price fluctuation cash out!

[Deprived]

Mining stocks and maybe the bonds issued by them seem to be the only thing currently besides gambling that seem to be stable enough to survive in a bitcoin only economy.

How are mining investments more stable in the face of an unknown number of ASICs being released at an unpredictable pace?

Mining is about the most predictable form of BTC investment around - it'll lose money (all the time it's profitable more people will start mining until it ceases to be profitable - meaning a loss for investors unless you find one of the rare investments where operator's pay comes from profit not turnover when you'll break even or make a tiny profit).  Only the very first wave of ASICs or those investments with some significant edge (manufacturing ASICs, very cheap power etc) will ever make any noticeable profit for investors - the rest just earn cash for operators whilst losing investment capital.

The general problem with BTC investments is that with BTC being deflationary by design very few fiat-denominated investments stand any chance of producing (BTC-denominated) profit - they can make fiat-denominated profit but will still be likely to end up worse than idle BTC would.  That will tend to balance out long-term -as deflation will be curbed by a lack of utility (reducing demand), leading to a state of equilibrium.  But we're some way off that (like a few years).

Investments like this are sort of good for the community/BTC as a whole.  Although the odds are very heavily in favour of investors making a loss (that's by no means uniquie to BTC - most startups fail period), at least by doing so they're spreading the word about BTC.  It's unfortunate (when it comes to investment) that BTC is deflationary - as even when I see half-decent investment opportunities I KNOW that statistically I'm better off with BTC in my wallet than investing (if BTC succeeds the idle BTC will appreciate in value more than any traditional business - especially considering a 90% failure rate, if BTC fails then either way I've lost - so why invest?).

Note that I see a strong distinction between investing (buying shares to make a profit from the dividends or growth of the company) and trading (buying to sell higher and make a profit from the market).  Something like this I'll happily trade (buy the early-bird shares and flip them below 2nd batch price) but without assets backing the shares there's no way I'd personally invest.  There's definitely far worse investments around though (e.g. the two blatant scams currently listed on Bitfunder).

[Deprived]

You can cash them out at any time with the amount of volume we are getting already, whenever you feel the need to take advantage of an urgent price fluctuation cash out!

You can never cash out (at the old price) when the price of a share collapses.  It's unfortunate - but true - that you can cash out all the time you don't want to, but as soon as you need to you're no longer able to.   Just look at all the ex-GLBSE companies listed on Bitfunder/BTC.CO.  There's plenty of people who'd love to cash out - but can't (at a price they're willing to take).  Your business will be no different (NONE are) - when it's doing well noone wants to cash out, if it does badly loads of people will want to cash out but won't be able to without incurring a heavy loss.  Volume right now has ZERO to do with that.  Or are you guaranteeing buy-back based on previous highest trading price?  I thought not.

[miTgiB]

Your shares are held in PURE BTC and your profits are paid out in PURE BTC.

While true, your profits are based on the conversion ratio at the time of sale from national currency to bitcoin, so if you profit $1000 this month, your dividend is ~33BTC, next month another $1000 in profit but the conversion ratio only yields ~30BTC, or maybe ~35BTC depending on what rate it all converts at.

Like I said, I have nothing against your business model, but me personally, I am looking for what can give me a pure BTC investment with as little exposure to national fiat as possible.  Getting 100% shielded from it is impossible I fear, but this is far from shielded to that exposure.

[Monster Tent]

Mining stocks and maybe the bonds issued by them seem to be the only thing currently besides gambling that seem to be stable enough to survive in a bitcoin only economy.

How are mining investments more stable in the face of an unknown number of ASICs being released at an unpredictable pace?

Mining is about the most predictable form of BTC investment around - it'll lose money (all the time it's profitable more people will start mining until it ceases to be profitable - meaning a loss for investors unless you find one of the rare investments where operator's pay comes from profit not turnover when you'll break even or make a tiny profit).  Only the very first wave of ASICs or those investments with some significant edge (manufacturing ASICs, very cheap power etc) will ever make any noticeable profit for investors - the rest just earn cash for operators whilst losing investment capital.

The general problem with BTC investments is that with BTC being deflationary by design very few fiat-denominated investments stand any chance of producing (BTC-denominated) profit - they can make fiat-denominated profit but will still be likely to end up worse than idle BTC would.  That will tend to balance out long-term -as deflation will be curbed by a lack of utility (reducing demand), leading to a state of equilibrium.  But we're some way off that (like a few years).

Investments like this are sort of good for the community/BTC as a whole.  Although the odds are very heavily in favour of investors making a loss (that's by no means uniquie to BTC - most startups fail period), at least by doing so they're spreading the word about BTC.  It's unfortunate (when it comes to investment) that BTC is deflationary - as even when I see half-decent investment opportunities I KNOW that statistically I'm better off with BTC in my wallet than investing (if BTC succeeds the idle BTC will appreciate in value more than any traditional business - especially considering a 90% failure rate, if BTC fails then either way I've lost - so why invest?).

Note that I see a strong distinction between investing (buying shares to make a profit from the dividends or growth of the company) and trading (buying to sell higher and make a profit from the market).  Something like this I'll happily trade (buy the early-bird shares and flip them below 2nd batch price) but without assets backing the shares there's no way I'd personally invest.  There's definitely far worse investments around though (e.g. the two blatant scams currently listed on Bitfunder).

Unfortunately the difference between "scam" and "investment" when it comes to bitcoin is so thin as to be virtually identical. Bitfunder doesnt have a feedback system either so its difficult to know what is legit or not. Sadly most of it is shit.

[miTgiB]

Unfortunately the difference between "scam" and "investment" when it comes to bitcoin is so thin as to be virtually identical. Bitfunder doesnt have a feedback system either so its difficult to know what is legit or not. Sadly most of it is shit.

I think the community needs the scams to mature, but I agree, I do not care to BitFunder that much, too hard to get enough info to make any choice, but this forum is giving us that opportunity.

[Monster Tent]

Unfortunately the difference between "scam" and "investment" when it comes to bitcoin is so thin as to be virtually identical. Bitfunder doesnt have a feedback system either so its difficult to know what is legit or not. Sadly most of it is shit.

I think the community needs the scams to mature, but I agree, I do not care to BitFunder that much, too hard to get enough info to make any choice, but this forum is giving us that opportunity.

Not really. This forum promotes some of the largest scams and indeed makes them worse than they should be. For instance hiding posts about BFL which would have a negative impact on companies that are relying on BFL equipment to ever make a return.

I wont even begin with the Pirate stuff and how many of the operators and promoters of that massive scam dont have scammer labels.

[Deprived]

Mining stocks and maybe the bonds issued by them seem to be the only thing currently besides gambling that seem to be stable enough to survive in a bitcoin only economy.

How are mining investments more stable in the face of an unknown number of ASICs being released at an unpredictable pace?

Mining is about the most predictable form of BTC investment around - it'll lose money (all the time it's profitable more people will start mining until it ceases to be profitable - meaning a loss for investors unless you find one of the rare investments where operator's pay comes from profit not turnover when you'll break even or make a tiny profit).  Only the very first wave of ASICs or those investments with some significant edge (manufacturing ASICs, very cheap power etc) will ever make any noticeable profit for investors - the rest just earn cash for operators whilst losing investment capital.

The general problem with BTC investments is that with BTC being deflationary by design very few fiat-denominated investments stand any chance of producing (BTC-denominated) profit - they can make fiat-denominated profit but will still be likely to end up worse than idle BTC would.  That will tend to balance out long-term -as deflation will be curbed by a lack of utility (reducing demand), leading to a state of equilibrium.  But we're some way off that (like a few years).

Investments like this are sort of good for the community/BTC as a whole.  Although the odds are very heavily in favour of investors making a loss (that's by no means uniquie to BTC - most startups fail period), at least by doing so they're spreading the word about BTC.  It's unfortunate (when it comes to investment) that BTC is deflationary - as even when I see half-decent investment opportunities I KNOW that statistically I'm better off with BTC in my wallet than investing (if BTC succeeds the idle BTC will appreciate in value more than any traditional business - especially considering a 90% failure rate, if BTC fails then either way I've lost - so why invest?).

Note that I see a strong distinction between investing (buying shares to make a profit from the dividends or growth of the company) and trading (buying to sell higher and make a profit from the market).  Something like this I'll happily trade (buy the early-bird shares and flip them below 2nd batch price) but without assets backing the shares there's no way I'd personally invest.  There's definitely far worse investments around though (e.g. the two blatant scams currently listed on Bitfunder).

Unfortunately the difference between "scam" and "investment" when it comes to bitcoin is so thin as to be virtually identical. Bitfunder doesnt have a feedback system either so its difficult to know what is legit or not. Sadly most of it is shit.

There's a couple of VERY obvious scam IPOs on Bitfunder (NOT this one).  Anyone (as is the case here) who makes a thread and answers critics is taking a very positive step to affirm themselves as not being in the scam category (it's not impossible - and the fail category still has wide-open arms).

Of course there's a huge grey area between scam/failure.  Where does a business fall that the operators should know will never generate enough profit (or will make a loss) to make investment worthwhile - whilst doing precisely what was described in the IPO?  Is it a scam or a failure (NOT saying this one falls into that group)?  How about when an operator has good intentions but is incompetent (very wide-spread - not just in BTC land)?

[Monster Tent]

Why does this look exactly like the ZigGap OP? Are the issues related? I'm thinking, they were written up by a PR man working for BitFunder (i.e. it might not be a 'bad' reason). Please inform! ty

Has nothing to do with ZigGap.

We have been around much longer than they have.. Thanks for the question.

It didnt really answer the question. I noticed the same thing  and it looks suss. It also opens a can of worms if you copied and pasted and broke the authors copyright and now they can sue you for it.

Not that it is likely but you never know, the way copyright is these days.

[ThickAsThieves]

Why does this look exactly like the ZigGap OP? Are the issues related? I'm thinking, they were written up by a PR man working for BitFunder (i.e. it might not be a 'bad' reason). Please inform! ty

Has nothing to do with ZigGap.

We have been around much longer than they have.. Thanks for the question.

It didnt really answer the question. I noticed the same thing  and it looks suss. It also opens a can of worms if you copied and pasted and broke the authors copyright and now they can sue you for it.

Not that it is likely but you never know, the way copyright is these days.

Copyright infringement on a bitcoin stock description? Probably a stretch. I'm pretty sure Bitfunder helped write both of them, hence the similarity.

[FlipPro]

Why does this look exactly like the ZigGap OP? Are the issues related? I'm thinking, they were written up by a PR man working for BitFunder (i.e. it might not be a 'bad' reason). Please inform! ty

Has nothing to do with ZigGap.

We have been around much longer than they have.. Thanks for the question.

It didnt really answer the question. I noticed the same thing  and it looks suss. It also opens a can of worms if you copied and pasted and broke the authors copyright and now they can sue you for it.

Not that it is likely but you never know, the way copyright is these days.

Copyright infringement on a bitcoin stock description? Probably a stretch. I'm pretty sure Bitfunder helped write both of them, hence the similarity.

*ding ding ding* We got a winner.  

[molecular]

This sounds like a real bitcoin company with a dedicated management.

I'm happy to invest, however...

Bitcoin Pride currently holds 25M shares that represent our 50% cut of the total profits.

We have exclusive right to 2,500,000 of those shares for operational purposes. So when dividends come in 2.5M shares will be paid first.

...what does this mean "will be paid first". Are these 2.5M shares somehow different than the other shares?

[FlipPro]

This sounds like a real bitcoin company with a dedicated management.

I'm happy to invest, however...

Bitcoin Pride currently holds 25M shares that represent our 50% cut of the total profits.

We have exclusive right to 2,500,000 of those shares for operational purposes. So when dividends come in 2.5M shares will be paid first.

...what does this mean "will be paid first". Are these 2.5M shares somehow different than the other shares?

The shares are normal shares, they just happen to be used by the company to maintain growth, these 2,500,000 shares are part of our 50% stake.

"2,500,000 shares will be retained by BitPride to maintain a growth and expansion fund. Possible uses of this fund may be used to
cover up front costs for bulk product production. Should it be determined that the growth fund is not needed, all amounts held by
the growth shares will be equally distributed per share at the following dividend, and the shares may be posted for sale."

Right now BitcoinPride.com owns 50% of the shares. It's selling the other 50% over the coming weeks. Eventually we hope to have a community owned site.

[molecular]

This sounds like a real bitcoin company with a dedicated management.

I'm happy to invest, however...

Bitcoin Pride currently holds 25M shares that represent our 50% cut of the total profits.

We have exclusive right to 2,500,000 of those shares for operational purposes. So when dividends come in 2.5M shares will be paid first.

...what does this mean "will be paid first". Are these 2.5M shares somehow different than the other shares?

The shares are normal shares, they just happen to be used by the company to maintain growth, these 2,500,000 shares are part of our 50% stake.

"2,500,000 shares will be retained by BitPride to maintain a growth and expansion fund. Possible uses of this fund may be used to
cover up front costs for bulk product production. Should it be determined that the growth fund is not needed, all amounts held by
the growth shares will be equally distributed per share at the following dividend, and the shares may be posted for sale."

Right now BitcoinPride.com owns 50% of the shares. It's selling the other 50% over the coming weeks. Eventually we hope to have a community owned site.

I understand what's written in the contract. What threw me off was you writing here: " will be prayed first". Still don't get what that is supposed to mean.

[FlipPro]

10,000,000 shares sold! Thank you to the first set of share holders!

We have alot planned for all of you! Stay tuned!

[molecular]

10,000,000 shares sold! Thank you to the first set of share holders!

We have alot planned for all of you! Stay tuned!

Congrats on a smooth IPO!

When will the first dividend be payed? Beginning of March or April?