We created a new Ripple Currency: The Favor (FAV)

[jtimon]

HRS would be more intuitive. It's a currency with a central bank that doesn't cheat: Our solar system. A day will continue to have 24 hours for the foreseeable ages.

Although I would prefer some TERRA/1970usd-like index as a unit of account, certainly "an hour of unskilled labor" is far more concise than "a favor".
And hours seems to be the preferred unit on mutual credit (apart from the national currency denomination which is pretty common too).

yup I know, but it would be nice if it was more "official" (i.e. in the dropdown list). Then we can introduce the Ripple system to many of those alternative money communities out there much more easily.

I couldn't agree more. It is true that gateways replacing bitcoin exchanges has a lot of potential adoption, but complementary currencies keep growing and still are a big pool of potential users.
They could easily compete with other softwares such us Cyclos or Drupal. "Community currencies interoperability" is the holy grial for these people, just like "p2p exchange" was to bitcoiners.
And both come out of the box when you implement p2p Ripple.

[nelisky]

So if my skilled work is worth, I don't know, 10x minimum wages in my country I could charge 10 HRS per hour of work?

[herzmeister]

So if my skilled work is worth, I don't know, 10x minimum wages in my country I could charge 10 HRS per hour of work?

sure... if you can compete that is... just like today.

The hour of unskilled labor is just like a base standard, and an intuitive one at that which everybody would agree upon.

[speeder]

Interesting thing you found there...


Now I am wondering how to use that to charge for my freelance work and then pay for stuff with it.

[molecular]

Placed a bid for 1 FAV. Let's figure out what the market thinks a favor from molecular is worth!

I don't know how to interpret this:



I did not create such an offer. Also can't find it anywhere. Hmm.

I had entered an issue earlier and Stefan closed it: https://github.com/rippleFoundation/ripple-client/issues/233

[molecular]

Placed a bid for 1 FAV. Let's figure out what the market thinks a favor from molecular is worth!

If anything it would put a value on "a favor" in general.

Btw: I suggest to make this like one of these time-base local currencies. What do you guys think: "1 minute of time doing a favor for someone" = 1 FAV?

[molecular]

how would you measure how much 1 favor is? one favor may take 5 seconds, another a whole day to do

something like "Hours" (1 hour of simple work, like any neighborhood help) should be built into ripple (fixed, i.e. in the dropdown). Then it would instantly replace all centralized barter websites.

You don't measure it. The favor is already an irreducible "fundamental unit" in terms of which other things are measured.

If you and your Ripple friend mutually agree that it is a favor, then it is a favor!  If you don't come to an agreement, then it is not a favor!

Simple as that. Whether it takes 5 seconds or a whole day is irrelevant.

Well, I think I disagree. There are big favors and small favors. Wether or not this is relevant depends on how we want to use the currency. Maybe we'll pay each other for little work we do at some point. Then it'd make sense to base it on time. If we want to use it to keep track how helping and nice to others someone has been, sort of as a reputation tracker, this also applies.

[molecular]

So if my skilled work is worth, I don't know, 10x minimum wages in my country I could charge 10 HRS per hour of work?

sure... if you can compete that is... just like today.

The hour of unskilled labor is just like a base standard, and an intuitive one at that which everybody would agree upon.

True.

How about not "charging" people but making the FAV something where recipient of the favor decides for himself the amount he wished to pay? If you want to be payed for your work I suggest to use BTC for now. I feel payment of FAV should be voluntary and decided by the recipient of the favor. It's like saying: "Thanks, dude. Now I owe you one".

[speeder]

Now I want to sell CDT, code time. Also maybe create a freelance agency, that buy CDT from programmers ( that offer on ripple their CDT for the rates they wish ) and then resell that CDT to those that want freelancers coding for them.

[molecular]

Now I want to sell CDT, code time. Also maybe create a freelance agency, that buy CDT from programmers ( that offer on ripple their CDT for the rates they wish ) and then resell that CDT to those that want freelancers coding for them.

I just started to write this:

This might become quite interesting. So if a large group of coders (most of them) demanded CDT for their work, acquiring a bunch of CDT on the market (by trading) would be a prerequisite if someone wanted to do a software projects ("have you secured the CDT to pull this off yet?". This would drive the price of CDT up, while coders actually doing work, getting payed and trading their CDT for something useful (BTC or EUR or whatever) will have the effect of lowering the price.

but I'm not sure it makes sense. Replace CDT with EUR and it works the same way, no? What would be the differences?

[jasinlee]

I just tried to send between my two accounts a made up currency, it says it was sent and no history here either. Also on the other account, nothing ever arrives.

[speeder]

No no no.

CDT represents coding time. the IOU is redeemed when the work is completed and accepted by the employer.

Coders only SELL CDT (for EUR, BTC, USD, whatever), they don't buy it.

The idea us transform ripple into a freelancing market, where you sell your time directly, exchange-style.

[herzmeister]

How about not "charging" people but making the FAV something where recipient of the favor decides for himself the amount he wished to pay? If you want to be payed for your work I suggest to use BTC for now. I feel payment of FAV should be voluntary and decided by the recipient of the favor. It's like saying: "Thanks, dude. Now I owe you one".

Then that's just part of the deal, and nothing that requires a special kind of currency to express this circumstance.

[moocowpong1]

Placed a bid for 1 FAV. Let's figure out what the market thinks a favor from molecular is worth!

If anything it would put a value on "a favor" in general.

I'm not so sure about that. I don't trust anybody else's favor IOU's. If I have a molecular FAV IOU, I can ask you to honor it in exchange for a favor, same as anybody else who holds it. If somebody else trusts you, I can ask them to do something in exchange for my molecular FAV, which they could then ask you to honor. But that's very different from having a balance between the two of us, for which I would have to do a favor in return.

In a related problem, it seems like the issuer of a FAV is very important, and different FAV's are far from interchangeable. Let's say I save the world, and Barack Obama says "Thanks moocowpong1, I owe you one. Let me Ripple you a FAV." Unfortunately, I haven't extended trust to him yet, but I do use FAV's to keep track of yardwork, beers, and other miscellaneous favors with my neighbor Joe Schmuck. Ripple finds the path POTUS -> Joe Schmuck -> me. I end up with Joe Schmuck owing me a beer, and Joe can call in a favor at any time from the leader of the free world. This doesn't seem quite fair.

It seems like there are times when payments shouldn't "ripple". It's great for interchangeable and fungible commodities, but not necessarily things like favors, hours of work, and sex coupons. I'm not entirely sure what the right way to fix that is.

[molecular]

I just tried to send between my two accounts a made up currency, it says it was sent and no history here either. Also on the other account, nothing ever arrives.

This happened to me the first time I tried to send 1 FAV. The tries after that succeeded.

[molecular]

No no no.

CDT represents coding time. the IOU is redeemed when the work is completed and accepted by the employer.

Coders only SELL CDT (for EUR, BTC, USD, whatever), they don't buy it.

The idea us transform ripple into a freelancing market, where you sell your time directly, exchange-style.

But: there are different qualities of coders.

[molecular]

Placed a bid for 1 FAV. Let's figure out what the market thinks a favor from molecular is worth!

If anything it would put a value on "a favor" in general.

I'm not so sure about that. I don't trust anybody else's favor IOU's. If I have a molecular FAV IOU, I can ask you to honor it in exchange for a favor, same as anybody else who holds it. If somebody else trusts you, I can ask them to do something in exchange for my molecular FAV, which they could then ask you to honor. But that's very different from having a balance between the two of us, for which I would have to do a favor in return.

In a related problem, it seems like the issuer of a FAV is very important, and different FAV's are far from interchangeable. Let's say I save the world, and Barack Obama says "Thanks moocowpong1, I owe you one. Let me Ripple you a FAV." Unfortunately, I haven't extended trust to him yet, but I do use FAV's to keep track of yardwork, beers, and other miscellaneous favors with my neighbor Joe Schmuck. Ripple finds the path POTUS -> Joe Schmuck -> me. I end up with Joe Schmuck owing me a beer, and Joe can call in a favor at any time from the leader of the free world. This doesn't seem quite fair.

It seems like there are times when payments shouldn't "ripple". It's great for interchangeable and fungible commodities, but not necessarily things like favors, hours of work, and sex coupons. I'm not entirely sure what the right way to fix that is.

Obama could've given you 100 FAVs. That's one way to keep them favors fungible. It seems in no time are we going to be back to "normal money".

[jasinlee]

Ok, now to test out something else, if I wanted to place my made up currency on bitstamp.net's exchange I will see if it will accept the new currency if I manually try to sell it on their orderbook.

[jasinlee]

Your transaction failed to clear, reason: Missing/inapplicable prior transaction.
 
Getting this when trying to send my fake currency, maybe they removed the capability of it?

[jasinlee]

So these are not really USD/BTC/Whatever they are currency that is only usable between the people that trust them. So basically you cannot turn around and use this as a wallet unless you trust everyone. So yeah this is fail, or you will be begging people to trust you all the time, and would not be able to send them truly legit backed currency. Which bitcoin has proof, ripple simply has well I think I should trust you so I will accept that random currency as payment. Do I have this wrong?