We created a new Ripple Currency: The Favor (FAV)

[Deafboy]

I have trusted 1 FAV to molecular. Now I have 0 FAV!? I thought I should have -1.
http://deafboy.cicolina.org/igelitka/screenshots/trust_granted.png

[zulzedd]

@zulzedd: can you post a screenshot of your 1 FAV balance?

Here you go!

[molecular]

Your transaction failed to clear, reason: Missing/inapplicable prior transaction.
 
Getting this when trying to send my fake currency, maybe they removed the capability of it?

had this one before. try reloading the page an logging back in.

[molecular]

I have trusted 1 FAV to molecular. Now I have 0 FAV!? I thought I should have -1.
http://deafboy.cicolina.org/igelitka/screenshots/trust_granted.png

No, trusting me with 1 FAV means I can owe you one. I could now send you one (FAV IOU) because you trust me to give it back, then you would have +1 FAV. I would then Owe U 1 FAV. To have -1 FAV you have to send 1 FAV to someone who trusts you.

EDIT: what's your ripple address. I wanna trust you with returning favors.

[Deafboy]

rUAScykwHVqU2d4rb4twHbpDa7C81p4MSA

To have -1 FAV you have to send 1 FAV to someone who trusts you.

I see. Thanks for explanation.

[Snowfire]

I think I get it--you can define units with any identifier you wish (I don't know if it is a bug, but you can do this easily.) I now trust molecular for 1.01 WTF. Strings longer than 3 characters get truncated to 3. And any non-letter characters cause the system to reject the entry and default to xrp.

[drewdtom]

This is interesting. and FUN!

I still dont fully get it all but I'm selling 420 XRP's on Bitmit as a Favor to anyone who values them at the random price I set.

In this vain, Im willing to pay 420 XRP's for 1 FAV.

Any takers?

https://www.bitmit.net/en/item/18988-420-ripples-to-get-you-started-420-xrps

Note: you dont have to buy the 420 from bitmit. Send me the FAV and Ill send you the XRP's

I get that BitMit is not a proper Gateway, but why not sell your XRP and even FAV's on the site so people will know about them? Link back to this forum post?

If you would like to sign up on BitMit to sell anything, use my bitmit referral link and Ill Send you .1 FAV's or 420 XRP's or 0.007BTC

http://bitmit.net/en/user/drew/?ref=2063

My ripple addy is: rsZvcvACPWoTN2Eazzb5radzQX18s3DuK8

[phelix]

This is interesting. and FUN!

I still dont fully get it all but I'm selling 420 XRP's on Bitmit as a Favor to anyone who values them at the random price I set.

In this vain, Im willing to pay 420 XRP's for 1 FAV.

Any takers?

https://www.bitmit.net/en/item/18988-420-ripples-to-get-you-started-420-xrps

Note: you dont have to buy the 420 from bitmit. Send me the FAV and Ill send you the XRP's

I get that BitMit is not a proper Gateway, but why not sell your XRP and even FAV's on the site so people will know about them? Link back to this forum post?

If you would like to sign up on BitMit to sell anything, use my bitmit referral link and Ill Send you .1 FAV's or 420 XRP's or 0.007BTC

http://bitmit.net/en/user/drew/?ref=2063

My ripple addy is: rsZvcvACPWoTN2Eazzb5radzQX18s3DuK8

how can I create my own IOU? I would like to create a BER or a DRK

[molecular]

This is interesting. and FUN!

I still dont fully get it all but I'm selling 420 XRP's on Bitmit as a Favor to anyone who values them at the random price I set.

In this vain, Im willing to pay 420 XRP's for 1 FAV.

Any takers?

https://www.bitmit.net/en/item/18988-420-ripples-to-get-you-started-420-xrps

Note: you dont have to buy the 420 from bitmit. Send me the FAV and Ill send you the XRP's

I get that BitMit is not a proper Gateway, but why not sell your XRP and even FAV's on the site so people will know about them? Link back to this forum post?

If you would like to sign up on BitMit to sell anything, use my bitmit referral link and Ill Send you .1 FAV's or 420 XRP's or 0.007BTC

http://bitmit.net/en/user/drew/?ref=2063

My ripple addy is: rsZvcvACPWoTN2Eazzb5radzQX18s3DuK8

how can I create my own IOU? I would like to create a BER or a DRK

You can enter text in the dropdown-boxes. Then you can extend trust to people in, transact and trade your own currency.

[mintymark]

So what happens if one group of people invent FAV's carefully define them and start using them.

And so does another. With a completly different definition. Willfully or not.

Then a transaction happens between the two groups.

Lets say one group defines it as a minute of skilled time, the other an hour, then the minute brigade buy up all the FAV's.

Sounds like a stupid example ?

I am thinking stock exchanges, remember this already happened on GLBSE where fake shares were being sold for (but not everyone belived they were fake) in at least one company. ( Think it was GLIBSE itself.)

It seems to me that one of the things you need to guarantee is the uniqueness of identifiers for ripple users, so if I invent the FAV, weather I defined it or not, nobody else should be able to use it without being told that a FAV on ripple is what mark defined here, and link to it. If its an empty definition then so be it.

This kind of happens anyway doesnt it. I could invent a new alt coin and call it Bitcoin, and attempt to sell my Bitcoins for fiat currency. I could do that. Or maybe Bitcoon, so that when people mistype the url... But in  a sense the uniqueness is guaranteed by google and the www so that if I did I would so fast be labeled a scammer  that it clearly would not work. LOL in fact!

But seems to me this is a serious problem with current ripple? No ?

[molecular]

So what happens if one group of people invent FAV's carefully define them and start using them.

And so does another. With a completly different definition. Willfully or not.

Then a transaction happens between the two groups.

Lets say one group defines it as a minute of skilled time, the other an hour, then the minute brigade buy up all the FAV's.

Sounds like a stupid example ?

I am thinking stock exchanges, remember this already happened on GLBSE where fake shares were being sold for (but not everyone belived they were fake) in at least one company. ( Think it was GLIBSE itself.)

It seems to me that one of the things you need to guarantee is the uniqueness of identifiers for ripple users, so if I invent the FAV, weather I defined it or not, nobody else should be able to use it without being told that a FAV on ripple is what mark defined here, and link to it. If its an empty definition then so be it.

This kind of happens anyway doesnt it. I could invent a new alt coin and call it Bitcoin, and attempt to sell my Bitcoins for fiat currency. I could do that. Or maybe Bitcoon, so that when people mistype the url... But in  a sense the uniqueness is guaranteed by google and the www so that if I did I would so fast be labeled a scammer  that it clearly would not work. LOL in fact!

But seems to me this is a serious problem with current ripple? No ?

In the case of a stock you would probably make it so everyone trusts one ripple wallet (issuer?) and not use p2p trust. But even then, you could have 2 completely separate trust clusters and use the same name (FAV) for 2 different currencies. Of course that'd be extremely confusing and the danger is probably high that someone accidentally connects them.

[Beepbop]

A favor is pretty well culturally defined. It's not something that I'd foresee would form long ripple chains, so I don't think it's a real problem. Like, if one social group has high standards for favors like sacrificing their life for you or letting them marry their daughers, and another considers a favor something like a lift to school or helping your rake your yard, I don't think these groups of users would ever connect with FAV. I'd think an intermediate currency would appear in that ripple chain, like an offer of a favor by the first group being valued in thousands of USD and the second a couple USDs for a favor.

The main challenge would be that each currency code is uniquely defined, as well as definitions for work hours.

[jking]

Are FAV's divisible? Can we split them up into smaller units? What does 0.234 FAVs mean?

[molecular]

Are FAV's divisible? Can we split them up into smaller units? What does 0.234 FAVs mean?

how about 1 FAV is roughly 15 minutes of time?

[jtimon]

Are FAV's divisible? Can we split them up into smaller units? What does 0.234 FAVs mean?

how about 1 FAV is roughly 15 minutes of time?

Why don't just use 0.25 HRS instead?
There's many people using that unit already: LETS currencies, time banks, villages.cc...
It's usually defined as "an hour of unskilled labor" and often approximated to 10 usd (although, of course usd is not a stable measure of value).

A Note About Hours

In Villages, one hour of acknowledgement is meant to represent one hour of basic, unskilled labour, approximately equal in value to minimum wage. Those offering skills to the community that have taken years of work to develop can and should be acknowledged with multiple acknowledgement-hours for each hour of their time given, according to the value of what they have given in that time.

If you need a dollar value for hours, $10 is a good guideline.

https://villages.cc/about/how/

[mrmx]

Hi! I'm quite knew to the forum, but have been here for more than a year..

I'm willing to receive a 1 FAV, please send it to rKishCqMiQG6zhFHPjrFhXztLDjZteNmGP to play.

This is interesting. and FUN!

I still dont fully get it all but I'm selling 420 XRP's on Bitmit as a Favor to anyone who values them at the random price I set.

In this vain, Im willing to pay 420 XRP's for 1 FAV.

Any takers?

https://www.bitmit.net/en/item/18988-420-ripples-to-get-you-started-420-xrps

Note: you dont have to buy the 420 from bitmit. Send me the FAV and Ill send you the XRP's

I get that BitMit is not a proper Gateway, but why not sell your XRP and even FAV's on the site so people will know about them? Link back to this forum post?

If you would like to sign up on BitMit to sell anything, use my bitmit referral link and Ill Send you .1 FAV's or 420 XRP's or 0.007BTC

http://bitmit.net/en/user/drew/?ref=2063

My ripple addy is: rsZvcvACPWoTN2Eazzb5radzQX18s3DuK8

I trusted you, when I receive 1 FAV i'll pass it to you

Greetings

[TTBit]

So what happens if one group of people invent FAV's carefully define them and start using them.

And so does another. With a completly different definition. Willfully or not.

Then a transaction happens between the two groups.

Lets say one group defines it as a minute of skilled time, the other an hour, then the minute brigade buy up all the FAV's.

Sounds like a stupid example ?

I am thinking stock exchanges, remember this already happened on GLBSE where fake shares were being sold for (but not everyone belived they were fake) in at least one company. ( Think it was GLIBSE itself.)

It seems to me that one of the things you need to guarantee is the uniqueness of identifiers for ripple users, so if I invent the FAV, weather I defined it or not, nobody else should be able to use it without being told that a FAV on ripple is what mark defined here, and link to it. If its an empty definition then so be it.

This kind of happens anyway doesnt it. I could invent a new alt coin and call it Bitcoin, and attempt to sell my Bitcoins for fiat currency. I could do that. Or maybe Bitcoon, so that when people mistype the url... But in  a sense the uniqueness is guaranteed by google and the www so that if I did I would so fast be labeled a scammer  that it clearly would not work. LOL in fact!

But seems to me this is a serious problem with current ripple? No ?

I am having trouble with this myself. I create a currency "Fred's Awesome Valuations" and it circulates at my work, where 10 FAV's = free dinner at chilis. I don't want my client to add FAV's from different issuers.

But I do want my client to add some currencies (BTC meaning 'bitcoins') if they are from different issuers. I can only deposit MtGox BTC ripples into MtGox and Bitstamp BTC ripples into bitstamp (because they don't trust each other, and shouldn't). What about BTC-E ripples? Bitfloor ripples? Should they all be added together in the client?

[ten0k]

The wiki states for custom currencies : (https://ripple.com/wiki/Currency_Format).

"Currency 160-bit identifier is the hash of the currency definition block, which is also its storage index. Contains: Domain of issuer. Issuer's account. Auditor's account (if any). Client display information. Hash of policy document."

So I think there is room for every kind of custom currency, even ones with same TLA. This feature does not seem to be supported in the current client implementation, I guess ...

[jtimon]

So what happens if one group of people invent FAV's carefully define them and start using them.

And so does another. With a completly different definition. Willfully or not.

You should know what a FAV means for its issuer when you trust FAV from him.
No account should trust the different definitions of FAV issued by different issuers because they would be rippled 1:1 by default.
I guess it can be solved with fees, but the client doesn't allow regular users to charge fees at this moment:

http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/7590/does-ripple-ever-charge-proportional-transaction-fees

Without that, if you want to trade the different definitions of FAV in parallel you can still do it by having two accounts and only trusting hrs FAV with one and min FAV with the other.

If someone screws up, the user accepting min FAV as if they were hrs FAV would be responsible and take the losses.

The wiki states for custom currencies : (https://ripple.com/wiki/Currency_Format).

"Currency 160-bit identifier is the hash of the currency definition block, which is also its storage index. Contains: Domain of issuer. Issuer's account. Auditor's account (if any). Client display information. Hash of policy document."

So I think there is room for every kind of custom currency, even ones with same TLA. This feature does not seem to be supported in the current client implementation, I guess ...

This is there for the future, the "currency definition" format is not really defined yet:
"Custom currencies will use the 160-bit hash of their currency definition node as their ID. (The details have not been worked out yet.)"
I think it's meant to be used for currencies that have special qualities such as demurrage, interest, basket currencies...

[Timo Y]

[...]
I basically meant that FAVs are not fungiible. For a FAV beween you and John Doe, I (as a 3rd party) have no clue which equivalent "favor" I could contribute to the community in order to get a FAV currency circulating in a meaningful way.

HRS would be more intuitive. It's a currency with a central bank that doesn't cheat: Our solar system. A day will continue to have 24 hours for the foreseeable ages.
[...]

In a community, a consensus would eventually emerge as to what counts as a favor.

There are equilibrating forces at work:  If you refuse to do favors because you think your friends are asking for things that are 'more than a favor', two things can happen: (1) You convince your friends to be more reasonable with their requests for favors. (2) Your friends think you are anti-social and stop doing favors for you. This would make your favor credits unspendable too,  and encourage you to be more generous with your favors.

The lack of fungibility of the FAV can actually be an advantage over 'objective' measures such as HRS. If you spend 1 hour mowing the lawn for your 90-year-old grandmother, you would not expect her to do the same in return. You would be happy if she made you a cup of tea in return, as would your social circle.

The FAV isn't so much a currency as a way of formalizing and recording reciprocity within a group of mutual friends.  'From each according to his ability, to each according to his need' works with the FAV but not with the HRS.

I'm just not sure if a Ripple-like system is best suited for this.