It is time to question Poloniex market manipulation

[r0ach]

It's blatantly obvious Eth is and has been wash traded by a single entity on Poloniex for literally months now.

Why is Poloniex doing backroom deals with market manipulators to artificially pump coins to defraud investors?

[tokeweed]

Huh?  Proof?

[r0ach]

Huh?  Proof?

You seriously believe Eth isn't wash traded?

[smooth]

There probably is wash trading in many of these coins, but I'd say it isn't clear they don't just pay the 0.05% fee. That seems an acceptable cost of doing business to the extent it draws in millions of dollars of new money to the ecosystem.

Maybe Poloniex is involved (of which I have no evidence either), or maybe they just worked hard to avoid screwing up while others dropped around them until they ended up being the biggest crypto exchange that is able to benefit from the trading windfall, wash trading or otherwise.

[cryptoheadd]

Also, they just added 2 coins in 2 days.
Decred & Voxels.

Both of them pumped up.
What do you think about this? 

[smooth]

Also, they just added 2 coins in 2 days.
Decred & Voxels.

Both of them pumped up.
What do you think about this? 

Voxels isn't even a coin, just counterparty or omni token spam. I don't remember which.

Decred is a pretty decent project, in the sense that a lot of work went into it, and it is trying to do interesting things with refined PoS+PoW hybrid, voting, etc. I don't see any reason that shouldn't be listed.

For a while Poloniex seemed to lay off listing every piece of shit, but they seem back on that game. Maybe it has something to do with the topic of this thread; they fear the end of the ETH windfall and need to get back to their core business of listing garbage.

[spartak_t]

Also, they just added 2 coins in 2 days.
Decred & Voxels.

Both of them pumped up.
What do you think about this? 

This is quite normal. A lot of people are expecting a rise in price when a coin is listed on Poloniex.

[cryptoheadd]

This is quite normal. A lot of people are expecting a rise in price when a coin is listed on Poloniex.

Yes I understand. But do you think that Polo uses this to their advantage?
Do you think they fill their bags with that coin before listing it?

[btctube]

can you guys help me understand what wash trade means and how they benefit from it?

[spartak_t]

This is quite normal. A lot of people are expecting a rise in price when a coin is listed on Poloniex.

Yes I understand. But do you think that Polo uses this to their advantage?
Do you think they fill their bags with that coin before listing it?

Of course they can do that, because they will surely make some profit on it, but I don't believe that they are doing it.

can you guys help me understand what wash trade means and how they benefit from it?

You can call it "fake" trading (i.e. buying and selling something, pay just the fee for the trade and create artificial volume).

[smooth]

You can call it "fake" trading (i.e. buying and selling something, pay just the fee for the trade and create artificial volume).

Or in the case of zero fee exchanges (not Poloniex according to their posted fee rates, but who knows what private discounts/rebates may exist), you don't even have to pay the fee to do it.

[spartak_t]

You can call it "fake" trading (i.e. buying and selling something, pay just the fee for the trade and create artificial volume).

Or in the case of zero fee exchanges (not Poloniex according to their posted fee rates, but who knows what private discounts/rebates may exist), you don't even have to pay the fee to do it.

I'm not sure about that. A lot of people are following Ethereum, and I believe that the volume is genuine. If I was part of the Poloniex exchange, I would not risk my reputation like that. They have become a leading (not only altcoin) exchange in the world and they are making a lot of money anyways.

[smooth]

You can call it "fake" trading (i.e. buying and selling something, pay just the fee for the trade and create artificial volume).

Or in the case of zero fee exchanges (not Poloniex according to their posted fee rates, but who knows what private discounts/rebates may exist), you don't even have to pay the fee to do it.

I'm not sure about that. A lot of people are following Ethereum, and I believe that the volume is genuine. If I was part of the Poloniex exchange, I would not risk my reputation like that. They have become a leading (not only altcoin) exchange in the world and they are making a lot of money anyways.

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. There are certainly other exchanges in the crypto space that charge zero fees, meaning if wash trading does occur (LOL if anyone doubts it), the people doing it don't even need to pay the fees in order to create fake volume.

In terms of Polo, I don't know if they offer any discounts or rebates privately beyond what they give everyone, but it is not unusual, or even improper, to give incentive discounts or rebates to high volume market makers. I've been offered this in the past by other crypto exchanges (not Polo).

I agree with you that the original premise of Polo being in on the wash trading is unlikely, but I wasn't suggesting that at all.

[tokeweed]

You can call it "fake" trading (i.e. buying and selling something, pay just the fee for the trade and create artificial volume).

Or in the case of zero fee exchanges (not Poloniex according to their posted fee rates, but who knows what private discounts/rebates may exist), you don't even have to pay the fee to do it.

I'm not sure about that. A lot of people are following Ethereum, and I believe that the volume is genuine. If I was part of the Poloniex exchange, I would not risk my reputation like that. They have become a leading (not only altcoin) exchange in the world and they are making a lot of money anyways.

My thoughts exactly.  If one thinks that they shouldn't become one of the larger exchanges, then blame Cryptsy and BTER.  Their customers went to Poloniex.

[spartak_t]

In terms of Polo, I don't know if they offer any discounts or rebates privately beyond what they give everyone, but it is not unusual, or even improper, to give incentive discounts or rebates to high volume market makers. I've been offered this in the past by other crypto exchanges (not Polo).

I am not using Polo lately since I have stopped trading for a while, but I do believe that they are offering some discounts to like you called them "high volume market makers". Of course that this is not something, which we can call improper... its just doing good business.

[r0ach]

I agree with you that the original premise of Polo being in on the wash trading is unlikely, but I wasn't suggesting that at all.

You actually believe the Eth wash trader is paying 100-200 BTC per day (sometimes probably even more than that) just to wash trade?  It's obvious Poloniex has made a backroom deal with them because they'd be better off just buying the actual coin to manipulate the market rather than wash trading if they were paying that much.

[tokeweed]

As for ETH daily trading volume, it's trading in the millions in 3 different exchanges + in hundreds of thousands vs fiat.

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ethereum/#markets

So I don't think Polo is doing some shit deliberately.

[smooth]

I agree with you that the original premise of Polo being in on the wash trading is unlikely, but I wasn't suggesting that at all.

You actually believe the Eth wash trader is paying 100-200 BTC per day (sometimes probably even more than that) just to wash trade?  It's obvious Poloniex has made a backroom deal with them because they'd be better off just buying the actual coin to manipulate the market rather than wash trading if they were paying that much.  The jig is up on this scheme.

Like I said, large traders might get more discounts than the public fee schedule. That doesn't mean Polo itself is wash trading, plus as tokeweed pointed out, other exchanges trade a lot of Eth too. Unless they are all conspiring, they're not in on it. More likely if it is going on, the people involved are independent of the exchanges.

[r0ach]

Like I said, large traders might get more discounts than the public fee schedule.

There is no *might* about it.  Like I said, it's not possible they're paying the public fees because they'd be better off spending that money to just constantly buy coins to manipulate the market upwards instead.  You can draw no conclusion besides the fact that Poloniex is in bed with the likely single entity manipulator.

This is a big deal.  We already know the Chinese exchanges do things like this, but it's due to publicly having 0 fees open to all users.  This makes it so all markets are represented equally, just blocking out visibility of real volume stats.  Poloniex, on the other hand, has about a million different coins listed with only one single market being represented this way.  This gives the illusion to the untrained, outside observer that only one altcoin has any interest or activity and all the others are meaningless, when it's really a manufactured illusion to defraud investors.

[smooth]

Like I said, large traders might get more discounts than the public fee schedule.

There is no *might* about it.  Like I said, it's not possible they're paying the public fees because they'd be better off spending that money to just constantly buy coins to manipulate the market upwards instead.

And you know that isn't also happening? Maybe their belief is that showing price increases and spectacular volume is the way to sell ETH to the market, and selling a billion dollar cap coin as legitimate to market is well worth some fees.

This is a big deal.  We already know the Chinese exchanges do things like this, but it's due to publicly having 0 fees open to all users.

It would be a big deal if you actually had evidence.

"r0ach said so" does not make it a big deal.